Car & Driver test of the 08

[Coloviper]

All these new hot rod USA cars are great. All of them! Let's be honest here.

The reason I own my Viper and stable of old Saleens is because I want exclusivity. Seriously, I can spot six new ZO6s on my drive to work every Friday morning and I live 10 minutes from work driving through suburbia. ***** if you are a vette owner, I would imagine. Who wants to lay down $75K+ for a sports car to see the same one on the street. Not me!

I bought my 06 coupe new with a great smoking deal and I can probably guarantee that I can wax the ass off a lot of the new Z06 vette and the odd 08 Viper owner because I know how to drive it. If we get down to the real world here, the driver makes up for more than the cars at the levels the cars are getting at. Just because someone can write doesn't mean the can drive.

Bottomline here is it is personal preference. Other than the 1967 427 (435hp) Vette Convertible, I have no use for any vettes before and since. I imagine I never will. Viper, you just have to admire them for everything they are and aren't. My ole Saleens, well they just have a special place in my heart and always will. I just love the simplicity.

I laugh at people who buy new cars over the internet and I laugh at people who buy a car because of something someone writes in a magazine article. Viper owners are not vain, it is all about the rubber hitting the highway and that is what I love about my Viper. There is definitely a lot of rubber to hit the highway with.

Car magazines are like movie reviews, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

 

[wallbanger]

ON yahooo c&d says the viper one upped the zo6

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/230/Top-Five-New-Cars-for-2008/4

 

[bluestreak]

If we get down to the real world here, the driver makes up for more than the cars at the levels the cars are getting at. Just because someone can write doesn't mean the can drive.

Car magazines are like movie reviews, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

I nominate these two phrases as quotes of the year!!!!!!!


You couldnt have said it any better!!!!! That's why they are starting to hire "pro" drivers for the big track tests, and even that is rare, and many times they wont desclose names, it's pitiful.

 

[NOTVETTE]

You see what car made the cover though. Not the Vette.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Still, amazed the Z06 is even staying up the the 08. What gives?

The ZO6 is truely an awesome car and a lot less dinero than the Viper, but many turn a blind eye to its performance. And you dont see one everyday like the regular Vette. Better waranty too (drivetrain). I cant wait to see all the real bitchin here when the 650 hp (ss) rolls out.

 

[Vipermann]

The ZO6 is ... ... a lot less dinero than the Viper ...

It looks as though you've never actually negotiated to buy either a Z06 or the '08 Viper. The Z06 can be bought for about $15K less than a new, yet-to-be-shipped '08 Viper. That's it -- in the real (dealer world). And what were Z06's going for when they were first announced? More. So comparing Viper prices to the Z06 will be even more realistic after they've been in the dealers for 3-4 months. $15K ain't a whole lot more once you're looking at cars above $70K ... and the Viper can also be had as a convertable for the same price -- a major deal.

 

[wallbanger]

My local small town dealer sells chevy and dogde.... he just sold a loaded Z06 at msrp(out of state buyer)... for my 08 he is charging me 6500 more than the msrp of the z06...when the 650hp (SS) rolls out there will be no bitchin because it will cost >25k more than a 08 viper and won't be any better of a performer...vette owners are gonna be the ones bitchin

 

[sween]

It looks as though you've never actually negotiated to buy either a Z06 or the '08 Viper. The Z06 can be bought for about $15K less than a new, yet-to-be-shipped '08 Viper. That's it -- in the real (dealer world). And what were Z06's going for when they were first announced? More. So comparing Viper prices to the Z06 will be even more realistic after they've been in the dealers for 3-4 months. $15K ain't a whole lot more once you're looking at cars above $70K ... and the Viper can also be had as a convertable for the same price -- a major deal.

My local small town dealer sells chevy and dogde.... he just sold a loaded Z06 at msrp(out of state buyer)... for my 08 he is charging me 6500 more than the msrp of the z06...when the 650hp (SS) rolls out there will be no bitchin because it will cost >25k more than a 08 viper and won't be any better of a performer...vette owners are gonna be the ones bitchin

I think vipergtsr 91 was being sarcastic. I could be wrong though

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

My local small town dealer sells chevy and dogde.... he just sold a loaded Z06 at msrp(out of state buyer)... for my 08 he is charging me 6500 more than the msrp of the z06...when the 650hp (SS) rolls out there will be no bitchin because it will cost >25k more than a 08 viper and won't be any better of a performer...vette owners are gonna be the ones bitchin

Lets compare notes in a year from now who owns the road, stock for stock, no after market add on BS either please.I love the Viper, I just call a spade a spade.

 

[Vipermann]

Lets compare notes in a year from now who owns the road, stock for stock, no after market add on BS either please.I love the Viper, I just call a spade a spade.

Wait a minute. You were talking about the cost of an '08 Z06 compared to the cost of an '08 Viper. Now you sound like your talking about the bang-for-the-buck from some 'future Vette' (see who owns the road a year from now), because it's already documented in the magazines that the '08 Viper beats the Z06 ... so it sounds like you're switching tunes on us.

Me thinks you might be one of those old-schoolers that thinks that no new Viper is as good as the older Vipers (like say, a GTSR, for example). If that's the case, just say so ... and then I'll respond that I think that's a bunch of bs, and that the new Viper will be the best there's ever been ... and we'll be done.

 

[George Murray]

Real world...wanna talk real world? I'll discuss my observations resulting from my many track days in the past five years regarding Viper versus 'Vette. I have lots of buddies who run C5 Z06 Vettes at the same HPDEs I run. A couple of C6Zs as well.

My track (and sometimes street) machine is a 2000 ACR, simple mods being headers, Borla cat-back, roller rockers, flywheel, StopTechs (only on front), M-P controller, 3.54 gear, wing and splitter. 444 rear wheel HP, 475 rear wheel torque. Bugeater's old car. Back when he was a man, prior to becoming a neutered ***** and buying a mini cooper. The ACR has 36K miles, and has had the hell beat out of it on the track. I'm in my 4th year of ownership, and Bugeater abused it for at least two years prior to selling it to me.

During my ownership, I've made the following repair: I replaced a front wheel bearing. That's it. No other breakages. Otherwise, just replacement of wear items like brake pads, fluids, tires, and spark plugs. I finally wore out the front Stop Tech rotors after the first 2.5 years.

My Z06 buds and repairs...where do I start? This could be a LONG post. First, engines. The C5Zs are pretty capable track cars, especially with the right driver. Lighter than my '00, and they brake better. They seem to be fairly reliable DE cars providing they retain stock engine internals. Headers, bling bling intake tubes, exhaust, etc, don't hurt those cars. But every single one of these guys who has done relatively minor engine mods like head work or cam change has had serious issues. Like blown engines, busted rings, spun bearings. That LS6 doesn't like extra power from a reliability standpoint unless changes to the lower engine are made as well. Better bearings, rings, pistons, rods, etc. At least of a couple of the Z buds have confided to me that their only options for keeping the engines running reliably is to either keep them internally stock, or to mod them by spending $15K or so for a complete robust performance rebuild.

Next, brakes. Chevy used some cheap a$$ brake components on the C5Zs. Every driver I know carries two extra sets of rotors to the track. At least one pair of front rotors will be consumed during a track weekend. Sometimes rears, too. On the upside, the rotors can be purchased from NAPA for about $35 each.

Transmissions. Like Vipers, the C5Zs use T-56s, but they get real hot in the Vettes. I never asked why. But transmission coolers are a common mod on C5Zs.

Header leaks. The aftermarket headers available for the C5Zs seem to spring leaks fairly often at the smog couplings. Just metal stress, but it kind of messes up a track weekend when it happens at the track.

ABS is nice on the Zs. Mine's a '00, so I don't have that, and my Z buds know, and use my early braking to their advantage in braking zones. When I tracked my '04 SRT, it was a different story. Man I miss those brakes.

Torque? We Viper guys got it all over the C5Z guys. No new news there.

My standard quip at the track I tell my Vette buds is that if my car were steel, I could just weld the hood shut and kick back and watch them turn wrenches after every session. I recall Cyndi Lux at VOI9 describing the Vettes as disposable cars. I fully understand.

I can't remark a whole lot on the reliability of the C6Z, as not too many of my track pals have those. I met one guy who was on his third engine in the first 10K miles (Just DE stuff, no real racing - 2006 Z - well known for engine issues), another who had overheating problems, and another who had an electrical system failure at the track. The C6Z is a great opponent when driven well, though.

Having described all the above, if I couldn't afford a Viper I'd buy a cheap C5Z, seeing as it's a capable DE car, it's relatively easy to wrench on (and it requires a lot of that), and it's American. I'm not into imports at all (I'm happy that Daimler bailed out of Mopar).