Castrol commercial claim

okloneranger

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I figure by now most of you may have seen the commercial on television claiming the new synthetic oil Castrol has provides eight times the wear protection Mobil One does. If I remember correctly toward the end of 2009 someone brought out the fact that our wonderful federal government was requiring the oil companies to cut back the phosphate level (wear additive)in all oil starting in 2010. My questions are: What does Castrol have in it that Mobile one doesn't? Is there a (compatable with Mobile One) wear additive on the market out there one can purchase? Finally, I wonder if the Castrol claim really means that much as far as practical driving is concerned, being as how so many people change their oil at recommended intervels of 3K or 5K, and some even15K miles? TOM is the oil expert, but I would also appreciate any input others might have.
 

JonB

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TOM H, FloGor, is the credentialled reply I look forward to on these GREAT questions... Tom?
 
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VIPER GTSR 91

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I have also seen this ad many times and wonder about the same BS claim. The companies that frequently have to advertise on TV and mention a competitors name are the ones that know they are not as popular to that competitor, in this case Mobil 1.
 

hdscreens

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I used mobile1 full synthetic on 3 occasions and all those times it broke down even shut down the car one time at 4k-5k of mileage. I would never use that stuff in my Viper even though that is what is recommended. Once in a ford pickup and twice in a 300. I went back to castrol and have never had problems with it.
 

PatentLaw

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I used mobile1 full synthetic on 3 occasions and all those times it broke down even shut down the car one time at 4k-5k of mileage. I would never use that stuff in my Viper even though that is what is recommended. Once in a ford pickup and twice in a 300. I went back to castrol and have never had problems with it.

How are you determining that your breakdown was related to the oil wearing out? I have used Mobil 1 for years and have had great results.
 

fqberful

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It wasn't long ago that Castrol got boinked for false advertising in that their "synthetic" oil actually wasn't. Rather than actually going synthetic, they [ castrol and their owners ] got the definition of synthetic changed because they use an extra refining step in their petroleum oils and thereby can call it synthetic. Total crap.

Mobil1 and Amsoil are both very, very good, and true synthetics. And you can get Amsoil in a 20w50 with high zinc and large doses of other anti-wear stuff. I can run 20w50 all year in Florida, maybe not so good in the great white north in the winter time. But then most of you guys pack your Vipers away for the winter anyway.

--FQB
 

TrackAire

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I figure by now most of you may have seen the commercial on television claiming the new synthetic oil Castrol has provides eight times the wear protection Mobil One does. If I remember correctly toward the end of 2009 someone brought out the fact that our wonderful federal government was requiring the oil companies to cut back the phosphate level (wear additive)in all oil starting in 2010. My questions are: What does Castrol have in it that Mobile one doesn't? Is there a (compatable with Mobile One) wear additive on the market out there one can purchase? Finally, I wonder if the Castrol claim really means that much as far as practical driving is concerned, being as how so many people change their oil at recommended intervels of 3K or 5K, and some even15K miles? TOM is the oil expert, but I would also appreciate any input others might have.

Is that the commercial that blows my mullet back so it looks like I'm going 80 mph while standing at the checkout counter??

If so, I wouldn't buy Castrol for any other reason other than that is a very stupid commercial IMO.

Any top name brand oil in the correct type and weight will outlive the length you keep your car. If you have an engine failure and are using the right type and weight of oil, you would have had a motor failure regardless of what is in the crankcase.

It is very easy to add more anti wear additives, but too much of a good thing can go the other way and end up with oil that has a weaker package after 300 miles for example....so you end up with a oil that looks and measures superior when unused, but is much weaker after 1000 miles because those anti wear additives react with the blowby and your oil just becomes average. There is a huge myth that there is a bunch of metal to metal "rubbing" going on inside your motor. Not in all the motors I've ever dealt with...if you have any "rubbing" you're going to have a engine failure very quickly, regardless of what oil you're running.

Cheers,
George
 

VIPER GTSR 91

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OK Tom, get in here and sort the ORIGINAL and good question he asked before it goes too much about oil brand opinions rather than the subject matter. Please !!
 

eurowalt

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Hey there guys. All oils have whats called API level. My 95 viper calls for API SG 95!!!! Now you look whats i the current Vipers and you'll notice the API level is a API SM. A much higher level of API. All car oils have the same API level's now. The higher the API level the higher quality standards motor protection. Needless to say Mobil1 Castrol on and on and on..... There all good oils.

P.s I work for REPSOL oil co.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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I figure by now most of you may have seen the commercial on television claiming the new synthetic oil Castrol has provides eight times the wear protection Mobil One does. If I remember correctly toward the end of 2009 someone brought out the fact that our wonderful federal government was requiring the oil companies to cut back the phosphate level (wear additive)in all oil starting in 2010. My questions are: What does Castrol have in it that Mobile one doesn't? Is there a (compatable with Mobile One) wear additive on the market out there one can purchase? Finally, I wonder if the Castrol claim really means that much as far as practical driving is concerned, being as how so many people change their oil at recommended intervels of 3K or 5K, and some even15K miles? TOM is the oil expert, but I would also appreciate any input others might have.

The Castrol claim that it provides 8X the wear protection is explicitly true. In an engine test designed to measure engine wear at low oil temperatures (i.e. start engine, never drive it long enough to warm up, turn off engine) the Castrol oil, according to Castrol, had 1/8 the wear on the camshaft that Mobil 1 did.

SwRI: Sequence IVA Test Method for ILSAC GF-3/GF-4 and API SL/SM

However, both oils passed the test and both oils are API certified. The OEMs, additive companies, oil companies jointly develop these tests and also agree on passing and failing results, so passing this (and any of the tests needed for the API certification) means the oil has met the requirements established by a jury of technical peers.

Furthermore, these tests and the limits are statistically determined as if they are pass/fail. There is no criteria that allow a marketer to say they passed all the API certification tests better than a competitive oil. This is a case of the marketing people cherry-picking and mis-using data.

The engine used is a Nissan KA24E, a 1996 vintage single overhead cam, rocker arm, port fuel injected engine. It does not have roller followers like all Viper engines have, so the wear being reported by Castrol doesn't matter.

The test never gets above 130F coolant and 140F oil temperature. This test exaggerates low temperature effects, and at these conditions it may not even the anti-wear additive that matters. Other surface-active molecules (detergents, friction modifiers) that you want in the oil may interfere. At warmed up temperatures the system of additives very likely will work just fine. It may not be that Mobil doesn't have something Castrol does; it could be that Mobil has much more of something Castrol doesn't have as much of.

Also, by focusing on one feature of one test from the large number of engine and bench tests needed to certify an oil ignores the fact that oils and engines have to operate over a very wide range of conditions. I could design an oil that only works when cold and is terrible when hot (and vice versa.) I think we all want an oil that works (i.e. at a minimum, passes all the criteria) over all the temperature conditions and speeds and loads the engine experiences.

Castrol Edge
(hover over the oil drop and the camshaft)

I'm not a lawyer, but there is case law regarding advertising that advises "it is not what the advertiser says, but what the consumer takes away." In this example, Castrol claims their oil is better, but if consumers (all of you!) take away the idea that Castrol is better than Mobil under all circumstances (and not in just the low temperature, sliding rocker arm wear the KA24E test evaluates), then that is illegal for Castrol to do. They must modify the ad so that consumers understand their claim is based on low temperature, sliding lifter cam wear performance. I would count on about 90-120 days and by then the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau proceedings will take place and the ad will be removed or modified.

*** BBB Search
 

Camfab

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Tom I realize this has been discussed a million times, but which oil did you say was the best? Wasn't it a diesel variant, and in my case the car does sit for long periods of time and may not always get to full operating temperature between cycles. (short trips every few weeks) Thanks.
 

PatentLaw

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The Castrol claim that it provides 8X the wear protection is explicitly true. In an engine test designed to measure engine wear at low oil temperatures (i.e. start engine, never drive it long enough to warm up, turn off engine) the Castrol oil, according to Castrol, had 1/8 the wear on the camshaft that Mobil 1 did.

SwRI: Sequence IVA Test Method for ILSAC GF-3/GF-4 and API SL/SM

However, both oils passed the test and both oils are API certified. The OEMs, additive companies, oil companies jointly develop these tests and also agree on passing and failing results, so passing this (and any of the tests needed for the API certification) means the oil has met the requirements established by a jury of technical peers.

Furthermore, these tests and the limits are statistically determined as if they are pass/fail. There is no criteria that allow a marketer to say they passed all the API certification tests better than a competitive oil. This is a case of the marketing people cherry-picking and mis-using data.

The engine used is a Nissan KA24E, a 1996 vintage single overhead cam, rocker arm, port fuel injected engine. It does not have roller followers like all Viper engines have, so the wear being reported by Castrol doesn't matter.

The test never gets above 130F coolant and 140F oil temperature. This test exaggerates low temperature effects, and at these conditions it may not even the anti-wear additive that matters. Other surface-active molecules (detergents, friction modifiers) that you want in the oil may interfere. At warmed up temperatures the system of additives very likely will work just fine. It may not be that Mobil doesn't have something Castrol does; it could be that Mobil has much more of something Castrol doesn't have as much of.

Also, by focusing on one feature of one test from the large number of engine and bench tests needed to certify an oil ignores the fact that oils and engines have to operate over a very wide range of conditions. I could design an oil that only works when cold and is terrible when hot (and vice versa.) I think we all want an oil that works (i.e. at a minimum, passes all the criteria) over all the temperature conditions and speeds and loads the engine experiences.

Castrol Edge
(hover over the oil drop and the camshaft)

I'm not a lawyer, but there is case law regarding advertising that advises "it is not what the advertiser says, but what the consumer takes away." In this example, Castrol claims their oil is better, but if consumers (all of you!) take away the idea that Castrol is better than Mobil under all circumstances (and not in just the low temperature, sliding rocker arm wear the KA24E test evaluates), then that is illegal for Castrol to do. They must modify the ad so that consumers understand their claim is based on low temperature, sliding lifter cam wear performance. I would count on about 90-120 days and by then the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau proceedings will take place and the ad will be removed or modified.

*** BBB Search


Thanks for the great write up.
 

99 R/T 10

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Tom I realize this has been discussed a million times, but which oil did you say was the best? Wasn't it a diesel variant, and in my case the car does sit for long periods of time and may not always get to full operating temperature between cycles. (short trips every few weeks) Thanks.


Wasn't it the 5w-40 Diesel Synthetic? Any brand I think. :confused:
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Tom I realize this has been discussed a million times, but which oil did you say was the best? Wasn't it a diesel variant, and in my case the car does sit for long periods of time and may not always get to full operating temperature between cycles. (short trips every few weeks) Thanks.


For infrequent driving, you may be more concerned with oil pumping at startup. The 5W40 diesel synthetic would be very good and the 0W40 synthetic would be a nudge better in this regard. The 0W40 has diesel performance credentials and was the factory fill oil for a while.

In regards to this engine test; the predecessor was a Ford engine that was run cold (low thermostat, water cooled rocker covers) and produced 5%-8% water from condensation in the engine oil. The engine was technically obsolete and the performance criteria were transferred to this (and other) engine tests. This is not very typical, and I would not let the Castrol claims sway your engine oil decision. At all.
 

Big Al

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Tom

Canadian Tire in our area (Southern Ontario) only sells Mobile 1 synthetic for High Mileage Vehicles (10W30) it goes on sale quite often but is it okay to use the high mileage formula in a Viper with only 24,000 miles? They do have a new car formula but not in 10W30.

I trust your expertise in this area.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Tom

Canadian Tire in our area (Southern Ontario) only sells Mobile 1 synthetic for High Mileage Vehicles (10W30) it goes on sale quite often but is it okay to use the high mileage formula in a Viper with only 24,000 miles? They do have a new car formula but not in 10W30.

I trust your expertise in this area.

Hi Big,

The differences between "high mileage" oil and "regular" oil are some combination of:

1) a seal swell additive to prevent leaks
2) within the range of an SAE 30, but on the thicker end
3) probably not as fuel efficient because of #2
4) maybe less friction modifier because if it's not meant to be fuel efficient, who cares
5) more detergent for those "dirtier" engines
6) may have more phosphorus anti-wear additive
7) perhaps more dispersant to loosen existing sludge

You can see that in every case there is more protection, and the only penalty is in fuel economy. That penalty is on the order of a few tenths of a percent at most. The old car version would be fine from an additive perspective, but if you plan on starting in the Canadian cold weather, you might want to see what they have in 0W-30.
 

Joseph Houss

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Tom,

Your presence on this site is undeniably SO valuable!

Thank You for being "Vipercentric" along with "oil crazy"!
 

JonB

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Tom has been sharing his expertise since the Pre-VCA Viper message board at Car and Driver. His handle there was assigned by that old forum admin as: FLOGoR = Fuel, Lube, Oil, Geek of the Realm. His screenname has morphed somewhat, like oil !

Well deserved, and much appreciated.
 

georgethedog

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Great write-up, Tom. I continue to use Mobil 1 diesel 0W-30. My dad retired from Mobil years back and has told me many stories about their testing. He likes your write-ups. Thanks.
 

georgethedog

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Quick Mobil 1 story. We bought a new 1990 Galant when we were married. The first oil change I switched to Mobil 1. 7 years and 125,000 miles later I took it to a local shop and had the valve cover gasket replaced because it started leaking (I was working 12 hour days--no time). When I picked up the car, the mechanic said: "Did you just rebuild that engine?" I said, "No, why?" He replied that it looked rebuilt because it was like new inside--no dirt, sludge, or visible wear. I just smiled and said I use Mobil 1--change it every 5,000 miles with a filter change every 2,500 miles. :)
 

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