Cat delete pipes ... who did you use?

[viper04blk]

Anyone care to give the $0.02 on which cat delete pipes to get for the stock exhaust system? I want to add some noise (but not alot) and reduce the heat.

 

[Kirkinsb]

I had a muffler shop cut out my cats and weld in strait pieces. One of my CATS failed....so I elected to get rid of them all.

Here is a better option: http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCar...-Flex-Joint-2003-2010-Dodge-Viper-215p500.htm

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Personally I believe this is a lousy idea. Do you have a 2004 stock exhaust or have you already added a catback? If you want more noise, but not a lot, then just getting a catback from Magnaflow, Corsa ,etc. with no crossover pipe, will get rid of the heat. The engine not only needs some back pressure, but no cats will cause you to notice a lot of fuel smell and with an exhaust on the side it can get pretty unbearable on a hot summer day with the top down. Also you limit yourself on resale since in many States this will not pass emissions and more and more consumers and Dealers are demanding it have cats so the pool of buyers is not severely limited.

 

[Dave1968]

If we could Bill, I'd like to discuss back pressure. My view has always been , for these types of engines anyway, that back pressure is not a good thing. I think the rational for those for back pressure is that it keeps the new intake charge, well part of it, from being sucked out of the engine during that infitesimal time period where the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time. However, my school of thought has always been that the reverse can happen as well and some of the exhaust gases cannot escape with the back pressure and so you end up with a condition where your new intake charge is say 90% air fuel and 10% exhaust ( just as an example I know these numbers aren't exact). I could see where you could lose intake charge if you had negative pressure, but if pressure was close to zero either way I think that would be the best. What do you think?

 

[Kirkinsb]

Lousy idea?!?!? Keep in mind I never said strait pipes...I said strait "pieces" where the cats were removed. I still have my mufflers and crossover...so I still have back pressure. Not running strait pipes all the way...hell no...that WOULD be a Lousy idea and horrendously loud.

But the OP is talking about removing heat from the CAT area if he is talking about cats. Which is not anywhere close to being located to the crossover. If he was talking about cabin heat...then you'd be correct.

FYI...I have no CATS and the smell is not bad at all...even with the top down. In fact I don't even notice it and it has been 90+ degrees here in good ole Scottsbluff, NE. If resale is a problem...he can simply keep the OEM mid-pipes and slap them back in for resale. If it is an 04 with stock CATS...those sucker are going to crap out some day and plug. Mine did with only 20K miles on a stock 2003. Why do you think vendors offer Non-OEM midpipes with or without high-flow CATs....because people want them due to their 12+ year old OEM cats dying and plugging.

My viper with no Cats, 12640 magnaflows, and crossover sound very civilized around town...but mean as heck when I nail the throttle.

 

[viper04blk]

Thanks guys. Where I live (Alberta) we dont do any emissions testing. I want to get rid of the cats to remove heat in the sills. kirkinsb - you mind posting a video of what your setup sounds like.

I also figure I can remove the cat and install the midpipe myself. I am assuming the cat is bolted into place. I understand I will have to use a fake sensor.

 

[viper04blk]

is roe racing the only option of mid pipes that directly bolt on?

 

[viper04blk]

argh .... the picture on roe racing looks like I need a a welding to install them

 

[Kirkinsb]

Give Sean Roe a call. I did...he is great. Those midpipes do not need any welding. They use the stock V clamp on the flex side and I believe the regular clamp on the muffler side too. And all you have to do for the sensors is tie them up out of the way. They will not throw a code. Sean Roe told me that and sure as heck, he was right. Never had a code in over 3000 miles with the secondary O2 sensors ******* out of the way. I think Roe is one of the few that sells the catless midpipes. He is a great guy...you really don't need to look any further than him. Everytime I call him or e-mail him, he is very pleasant.

I promise your Viper will not stink without CATS. Mine absolutely never burns my eyes or nose... Just a slight exhaust smell when I pull into the garage. Never smell it when out on the street.

 

[Nsane1]

Yes, the Roe pipes are the way to go, they look stock when put on.

As to codes, the year indeed does matter, a Gen 4 will throw a code, so I'm not sure which year we are talking about. Gen 3 will let a lack of an O2 slide as far as I know (mine don't CEL)

As Bill mentions, I would give the high flow a try first, they do produce less heat, and no egg smell. Also, there are other configs, based on which year. FOr instance, in a Gen 3 (and 4) there are 2 cats, 1 metal and 1 ceramic, you can delete one, keep one, hollow out one. So there are options.

I can't answer the "backpressure" debate, that has raged for as long as I've owned cars.


Let us know what yo end up doing...

 

[viper04blk]

I have an 04....

I would get high-flow if they were not so much money. After exchange rate it will be nearly 400-500 bucks more. So I will go with the mid pipe. I will see if I throw a code or not.

I wont be doing this till winter time (october where I live.) I will let you guys know what I come up with.

 

[Bandit3]

I had modified the stock exhaust by removing all of the crossover system and just using the side pipes. After installing a Bellanger set of headers, we welded straight mufflers using 3inch pipes all the way to exit. After having this arrangement for a while, it was way too loud. Called Lou at Bellanger and he offered a quiet or a loud side pipe set. Opted for the quiet set. Price was reasonable especially after seeing the product. Absolutely beautiful. He suggested, and I agreed the 2.5 inch set would produce a lil more hp. They're so pretty, it was a shame I had to reinstall the sidepipe covers.
This is my second time dealing with Lou at Bellanger, and have high praise for his quality of work and the time he spends to explain things.
First set of Bellanger headers had been advertised to gain 50 RWHP and 50RWTQ. Hit both numbers on the mark!
Call them, they seem to know what it takes.
PS, NO I don't work for or advertise for them, just a satisfied customer.
Almost forgot, extremely easy to install.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Still don't think straight pipes are in the majority of folks best interest. Replacing with high flow cats is not that expensive in the long run and when many Auctions and other States besides system Nebraska require a cat ( or disclosure in the case of an Auction ) , most future buyers will figure the devaluation into the price of the car -- so in essence one can do what they want , but saving a bit now may cost a substantial amount later ( that is all I am mainly saying). Concerning back pressure , have been told by Dodge Engineers since back in the 90s that removing the cats might get a bit more HP at the top end , for normal driving , around town ,etc. it does not scavenge as well and feels softer at the bottom end. Simple answer for me and since I have always run stock cats or high flows on my Snakes over the years, their answer was good enough for me. Have had so many folks complain of fuel fumes with no cats and been in numerous ones on the track when instructing and found the smell obnoxious on a hot day, that always felt it was something to let folks know ---- much more noticeable since going back to side exhaust from Gen III on up. Just my humble opinion , of course, but not based on just my thoughts , but those of an awful lot of clients.

 

[blackvenom08]

got a catless 3 inch system im trying to get rid of in you are interested..

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/672330-FS-3-inch-stainless-steel-custom-exahust-no-cats

 

[Camfab]

Bill, you can lead a horse to water..........

 

[Kirkinsb]

Bill and Camfab....we are not talking "strait pipes". We are talking about cat delete mid-pipes. Can't teach a horse to read I guess.

 

[viper04blk]

hahahaha i just want to keep it simple

 

[Camfab]

Bill and Camfab....we are not talking "strait pipes". We are talking about cat delete mid-pipes. Can't teach a horse to read I guess.

The horse can read better than your reading comprehension. When one is talking about removing the CATS and replacing it with a straight piece as you yourself noted in the second post, the inference is a straight or curved (what ever is necessary) PIECE OF TUBING, that is used to replace the existing CAT. Bills use of the words straight pipes did not infer removing the muffler or resonator. I understood that immediately.
My point, was........... Bill is right on. The reality is that anyone who claims that CAT removal doesn't produce hydrocarbon odors is full of BS. If you can't smell them, that's an opinion, not a fact.

viper04blk, keeping it simple, may not necessarily be your best choice. Yes, it certainly costs more to use hi flow CATS, but wisdom (Bill) is offering some great advice. I have a GTS, I have all three options available for my car. OEM CAT, Hi flows, as well as a "straight pipe". The hi flows are the best compromise, no smell, increased volume and exhaust note.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Some years had dual cats. A few SoCal guys took out the secondary car, and noticed a bit louder and cooler exhausts.

At first they would easily pass smog, but after some miles on them they would no longer pass the sniffer test.

Could be an option for you.

Now the product of choice seems to be Corsa cat backs. If your model has the cross over pipes behind the seats, that will remove a ton of heat and give better sound with less drone.

 

[agdetail]

currently running catless with magnaflow 3 inch exhaust. it was fun for the first week but it drones like crazy and the smell. you really get the exhaust smell at stop lights and i have to constantly turn on the ac or the smell becomes too much.

thinking of doing a high flow cat to at least get rid of the smell. trust me, it will get to you.

 

[Vipes]

I'm finally throwing in the towel after a few months. My eyes literally water walking in the garage when I'm letting the car warm up for a minute. If you wanted to take yourself out with the garage door shut you would go out quick haha.

 

[viper04blk]

...highflow cats is on my grocery list.

If i go highflow cats, stock mufflers/piping .... BUT remove the cross pipe... what can I expect? My single goal is to reduce heat

 

[Kirkinsb]

Well I must concede. It seems more guys are out there that have tried going CATless and had to throw in the towel due to fumes. I swear mine is not bad at all. Maybe my nose is just used to it. I think the concensus is that Hi-flows are your best choice. Now I still have the crosspipe and have thought hard about removing it. I would like to hear a sound clip before and after. Or does the majority feel their car simply sounds better with the crosspipe removed?? I think I really want to remove mine...just am not convinced to pull the trigger on it yet.

With me having no cats....is removing my crosspipe going to make it a ton louder or more raspy. The only thing that stops me is I love the sound of my VIper now. It is perfect. Not sure I want to screw with the crosspipe and ruin my sound.

 

[viper04blk]

I will be idling my car in the garage during winters.... i dont want fumes blowing over the kids bikes/toys etc. if my pipes pointed out the back I probably would care

 

[blackvenom08]

Well I must concede. It seems more guys are out there that have tried going CATless and had to throw in the towel due to fumes. I swear mine is not bad at all. Maybe my nose is just used to it. I think the concensus is that Hi-flows are your best choice. Now I still have the crosspipe and have thought hard about removing it. I would like to hear a sound clip before and after. Or does the majority feel their car simply sounds better with the crosspipe removed?? I think I really want to remove mine...just am not convinced to pull the trigger on it yet.

With me having no cats....is removing my crosspipe going to make it a ton louder or more raspy. The only thing that stops me is I love the sound of my VIper now. It is perfect. Not sure I want to screw with the crosspipe and ruin my sound.

I had a catless set up on mine and the smell was not nearly as bad as some of these people are making it out to be. Mine just smelled like a rich exhaust smell, certainly didnt make my eyes water or cause any sort of annoyance.

 

[Vipes]

I will be idling my car in the garage during winters.... i dont want fumes blowing over the kids bikes/toys etc. if my pipes pointed out the back I probably would care

Yeah that was my problem. I would start her up once every 2 weeks in the winter and let it get up to operating temps which takes a while. The smell seeped through the walls of the garage and into the house.

Blackvenom - Could possibly be because my car has a heads and cam package. I dunno...