This thing is going to fly down a properly prepared drag strip with BFG drag radials on it. My former Techco supercharged 2009 Challenger ran an 11.9 on a warm, humid day at PBIR. It only had about 525 - 550 flywheel HP and the five speed auto. With so much more HP and torque and an eight speed auto to really keep her in the sweet spot, the Hellcat will be an incredibly fun machine. Thank you Dodge!
Challenger Hellcat gets 707HP!
- Thread starter stingray23
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Unfortunately, I think you might be right...I think this is the new halo car...viper plant closed
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
a challenger as the Halo car? Man, that in itself would be a sad statement for a company. you doom and gloomers read way too much into a HP number by adding too much value if high and too little if its low. I even just saw the post today that now suggest the viper would not be acceptable with below 800hp... It won't be faster, more fun, better looking, etc. What the challenger will be is sold more because it is a more usable car and cheaper and for those that only like to talk HP and going in a straight line, it is the perfect latest poser pony car. But more fun, faster, halo car? come on, its a pony car that is just trying to compete and find an edge over two cars it has been losing its sales battle with for decades. Congrats to dodge for producing it, only a good thing for everyone.
I think this is the new halo car...viper plant closed
FLL-B/W-GTS
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Perfect test and tune drag night car,at least, very low 11s (maybe 10s)with some tires....Will not have beat up the fancy 10 second VW(911 TS) so much now on Test and Tune when I get a hellcat...
Also,what a highway machine with that kind of power..This is the best car Dodge has came out with since the initial Vipers...
Also,what a highway machine with that kind of power..This is the best car Dodge has came out with since the initial Vipers...
One thing this beast isn't, a poser car. Regarding the 800 hp Viper, that's where it needs to be. It's a Viper, not a Vette. It is a Halo car, and 800 hp is where it needs to be in today's world.
After more thought.....
Dodge gave the Gen V forged internals. Were there not rumors of Dodge building a supercharger kit to offer through Mopar? Then, talk of that stopped. Makes me wonder......Did Dodge decide to go ahead and finish development on this and instead have this system installed at the factory instead of after sale? A mildly tuned system on the Gen V V-10 should put out somewhere around a 150hp gain, wouldn't it? That would put the Viper right around 800hp. Wouldn't that fit in perfectly with the Hellcat being 707hp? I just wanted to get this posted so if it happens, I can say, Hey! Go check out my post from months ago where I predicted this! LOL!
Dodge gave the Gen V forged internals. Were there not rumors of Dodge building a supercharger kit to offer through Mopar? Then, talk of that stopped. Makes me wonder......Did Dodge decide to go ahead and finish development on this and instead have this system installed at the factory instead of after sale? A mildly tuned system on the Gen V V-10 should put out somewhere around a 150hp gain, wouldn't it? That would put the Viper right around 800hp. Wouldn't that fit in perfectly with the Hellcat being 707hp? I just wanted to get this posted so if it happens, I can say, Hey! Go check out my post from months ago where I predicted this! LOL!
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Are you sure? 700 was the demand for the past two years. now it is 800. are you sure it should not be 900? seriously, the only thing that changed on this front in the past year was this challenger and the z06. I think an even 1000 is what is required. More I think about it, it should have 2015HP to match the upcoming year. I think that would be sufficient for a dodge halo car.
btw, the reason I say poser is the power will not be usable in that car. no AWD virtually guarantees that. (look no further than the Shelby mustang to see that) It will be cool as heck and every owner will lead each conversation with 707hp, but then be sad when a new AMG E63 sedan with AWD walks away from them and have this confused look on their face asking themselves "but I thought I had more HP, what is the deal?" Don't get me wrong, so glad they built it as it adds more competition to the pony market segment and that is a unique market. It is not the viper segment though, or the quality fast sedan segment, it is the pony car muscle car segment of oversized heavy 2 doors.
btw, the reason I say poser is the power will not be usable in that car. no AWD virtually guarantees that. (look no further than the Shelby mustang to see that) It will be cool as heck and every owner will lead each conversation with 707hp, but then be sad when a new AMG E63 sedan with AWD walks away from them and have this confused look on their face asking themselves "but I thought I had more HP, what is the deal?" Don't get me wrong, so glad they built it as it adds more competition to the pony market segment and that is a unique market. It is not the viper segment though, or the quality fast sedan segment, it is the pony car muscle car segment of oversized heavy 2 doors.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
They can drop 900 from it, open up the PCM, and people will still find something to complain about justifying not to buy it.
Same old song and dance. Now a 4300# pig has more power people are upset. Lol.
How do 458s and GTRs even sell since they only have ~550 hp? That's practially 100 less than a Viper, but people don't seem to care. The F12 has way more power than a 458, it should be flying off the lots compared to the less powerful 458. Tons of supercars out there haven't even hit 600 hp. The R8, LFA, several Lambos, Porsches, etc. are all under 600, but it doesn't seem to deter too many people.
Bryan Savage
Viper Owner
This picture of SRT's future pretty much answers the "halo" questions. The Viper will remain the halo car until at least 2019.
First, I think it's incredibly awesome that Dodge/SRT would produce such an insanely-powered car. We really are living in another golden age of the automobile.
I agree with the sentiment that the N/A motor may be finished. The next iteration of the Viper would have to have an increase in power, but there are only so many things Dodge could do.
1) An increase in displacement would make for higher rod loads and internal stresses. Switching to titanium alloys for components that move will not help cost out much, so if that's off the table, an increase to nine or ten liters of displacement would have a lower redline.
2) Maintain displacement but increasing cylinder count would decrease the mass each part, but allow for higher revs.
3) Decrease displacement, decrease stroke, and increase RPM, like the V10s in the LF-A, R8 V10, and Huracan.
4) Forced induction. Same size motor, or decrease the cylinder count and/or displacement to make the overall engine smaller. I think the Hellcat is too tall for the Viper's chassis.
Building a brand new engine costs a huge amount of money. The block would have to be some kind of derivative of something existing.
A front-engine, rear drive V10 is pretty much the signature of a Viper. But just as you can now buy a blasphemous four-cylinder turbocharged motor in a Mustang, you may see a V6 Corvette in the future, and the Viper may have to come with something else in it. SRT will find a way!!
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First, I think it's incredibly awesome that Dodge/SRT would produce such an insanely-powered car. We really are living in another golden age of the automobile.
I agree with the sentiment that the N/A motor may be finished. The next iteration of the Viper would have to have an increase in power, but there are only so many things Dodge could do.
1) An increase in displacement would make for higher rod loads and internal stresses. Switching to titanium alloys for components that move will not help cost out much, so if that's off the table, an increase to nine or ten liters of displacement would have a lower redline.
2) Maintain displacement but increasing cylinder count would decrease the mass each part, but allow for higher revs.
3) Decrease displacement, decrease stroke, and increase RPM, like the V10s in the LF-A, R8 V10, and Huracan.
4) Forced induction. Same size motor, or decrease the cylinder count and/or displacement to make the overall engine smaller. I think the Hellcat is too tall for the Viper's chassis.
Building a brand new engine costs a huge amount of money. The block would have to be some kind of derivative of something existing.
A front-engine, rear drive V10 is pretty much the signature of a Viper. But just as you can now buy a blasphemous four-cylinder turbocharged motor in a Mustang, you may see a V6 Corvette in the future, and the Viper may have to come with something else in it. SRT will find a way!!
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emericr
Enthusiast
Congrats to SRT to come up with something that will compete with its competition (Mustang GT500, Camaro SS etc). The Hellcat is simply bada$$ and that is the kind of statement the Viper needed to make when the Gen V came out.
At 60Kish, they will sell all they can produce.
However I agree with the other members that it does not compete with the Viper. It will still be much slower on the track and probably about the same in straight line performance.
The price point of the Viper makes it compete with a different breed of owners and sales have proven that SRT cannot attract that breed. Adding more horsepower is not going to fix the issue.
At 60Kish, they will sell all they can produce.
However I agree with the other members that it does not compete with the Viper. It will still be much slower on the track and probably about the same in straight line performance.
The price point of the Viper makes it compete with a different breed of owners and sales have proven that SRT cannot attract that breed. Adding more horsepower is not going to fix the issue.
VIPER GTSR 91
Enthusiast
Just got an email from Dodge that the car will have 2 keys. The black one for 500 HP and a red one for 707 HP. Not sure how that works yet, but guess tuning changes with the different keys. And why even have a black key for just 500 HP. Who the heck will use that when you buy it for the 707 HP?
drl650
Enthusiast
The rumor is the hellcat in the video above ran a 10.*** with drag radials.
VIPER GTSR 91
Enthusiast
You would have to be nuts to valet that car.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Lol, I agree. The media hype creates so much of the demand, if only the Viper became the media darling it deserves to be.
An acquaintance of mine just sold his 458, he said he did not like it. He tracks his cars and has a Porsche GT (V10), so I was surprised about his comments about the 458 given he can drive. The F12 I think is under-rated and like the Viper, deserves more love. There is a 458 around the corner from where I live and to be honest it sounds like a Vtec on steriods, not what I'd want with a price tag that big. The big V12 gives the kind of sound that justifies the price, just like the Lambo. Of course that's subjective.
If I owned Chrysler (LOL) I'd build the Viper for twin turbos but let the after-market do that and owners would void drivetrain warranty. It is not reasonable for a small OEM niche brand to invest what GM has into making a full warranty 800hp+ monster - which is what a decent boosted V10 would make standing on its head. I would make the ECU programmable, but in a way that the factory can tell its been altered and give some discretion over subsequent warranty claims. I would also consider a factory clutched blower version that slips off under steady light throttle (cruise and idle etc for mpg and emissions) that then engages as the throttle tips in. With adequate attention to heat soak etc, that'd give the reliable OEM warrantable 750hp+ needed for a production super model that will push the boundaries too far for GM to want to chase with a warranty (??? - if not, it'd be a blast to see what they did).
I'd also use a centrifugal like Procharger rather than a positive displacement blower because:
1 - 8.4L V10 does not need more bottom end
2 - A ramping mid-range to strong top end is more useable
3 - less heat and easier to intercool
Up to 1000hp that'd give close to turbo efficiency for less complexity.
Dodge, are you listening?
dreaming I know, but this is the internet
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
You under-estimate the fun factor. My 507 edition C63 with the last of the 6.3 NA motors does not get especially good traction from a dig, rides like a railway wagon around town, and will go sideways (with traction off) with complete ease and arrogance. It's a hell of a lot more fun and responsive than the new twin turbo E63. I think the Hellcat will be similar and an absolute hoot to drive. Isn't it all supposed to about about the pure joy of driving?
On the roads available to most of you in the USA, the Hellcat will be formidable and put a ***** on a jellyfish. Over here in NZ, the Hellcat would be more poser and point and shoot, if you want to be quickest from A to B (ignoring the legallity) a modded Evo or GTR will beat most anything, but with a lot less fun. A Viper is going to be far more rewarding to drive than any of those for that reason where there are turns.
BTW, on coarse chip seal (which sadly we have a lot of) the GTR road noise is so bad that the stereo has to be up so loud that on a trip you will actually damage your ears - it *****, yet on smooth surfaces is quiet. Even the old series 1 Viper RT/10 is quieter on a trip over coarse chip, and they have no roof!
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You can never have enough torque. There is a reason why OEM's use the type of blowers they use.
Yes 800 just became the old 700 mark. If you think HP numbers don't sell cars, well clearly you don't understand competition. It's Never Ever enough! The GTR plays to the younger gamer crowd. Great car, love to beat one up, but it's not the same market as the Viper demographic. Like the 911 which plays mostly to a different demographic as well. There is some cross over but it's truly limited. The Viper was the wet dream of every Vette owner when it came out. To say that it's a car that doesn't need to step up its game is a sword threw its throat. People expect the Viper to be the undisputed king. So when the Challenger steps up the game to 707 which is bad ass, it doesn't matter that it may be slower than the Viper. The Viper must be the King or it's over.
So yes hopefully 1000hp is on the horizon. The Vipers target audience has always been the same, super size that SOB, I want the baddest, fastest, no holds barred beast.
Yes 800 just became the old 700 mark. If you think HP numbers don't sell cars, well clearly you don't understand competition. It's Never Ever enough! The GTR plays to the younger gamer crowd. Great car, love to beat one up, but it's not the same market as the Viper demographic. Like the 911 which plays mostly to a different demographic as well. There is some cross over but it's truly limited. The Viper was the wet dream of every Vette owner when it came out. To say that it's a car that doesn't need to step up its game is a sword threw its throat. People expect the Viper to be the undisputed king. So when the Challenger steps up the game to 707 which is bad ass, it doesn't matter that it may be slower than the Viper. The Viper must be the King or it's over.
So yes hopefully 1000hp is on the horizon. The Vipers target audience has always been the same, super size that SOB, I want the baddest, fastest, no holds barred beast.
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Nightrunner
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Hello all huge Viper fan and this is my first post. With the Hellcat coming out soon, do you think it may drive the price down on the Gen V's still sitting on the lot and selling slowly? Also do think it may speed up the depreciation of the Gen IV's. Since the Hellcat will be another high HP option at the Dodge dealer. My first love is the Viper and soon hope to be in the market for one, just wondering what you all thought on what may happen to the value of these great Viper cars with the Hellcat on the horizon.
I have an average 2009 SRT8 Challenger and an average 96GTS and most won't know the difference between the old and new models LOL. So I'm good as far as I'm concerned...
swexlin
Viper Owner
Agreed. I'm same - 07 SRT8 Charger Superbee, and 03 Viper. Most have know idea or what's under the hood of either. If I had the $$ and the room, I'd already have a Hellcat on order. Oh, and a Gen 5 in my garage as well!
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
Hellcat can only help Viper sales and values. Broader marketing will get more serious enthusiasts into the Dodge dealers where they'll find two very appealing and different cars to choose from instead of to Chev dealers to focus on the Camaro and Vette.
And if Motor Trend ever tests a production Gen V that positive review could shoot demand through the roof!
Wouldn't count on it as they are two distinct products. The hellcat is essentially a muscle car whose primary purpose is straight-line performance while the Viper is essentially a road course racing car with superb performance in all categories.
Consider that the old GM fbodys were often quicker in a drag race than the same model year Vette, and for a while the Vette and fbodys shared the same engine (LS1). People still continued buying vettes and nobody was really deciding whether to get a Vette or save $20K and get a camaro or trans am. A while ago Dodge also put the viper engine in a pickup truck and sold them as SRT-10 Rams...did that hurt Viper sales? I think not...because no matter what's under the hood it's still just another pickup.
FrankBarba
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We could say the same about Viper. It's just a Viper, same look, same...same....same....
A creature from space, if given a choice, would choose the Viper over the Challenger. Children too. It appears to be marketing genius on behalf of Chrysler to up the ante on such a $hitty platform as the Challenger. The Viper ain't going anywhere.....
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