Classic Vipers-- I don't understand it

[viperdrummer]

I think Vipers in general are going up in value. What I don't understand is how what are becoming the classics, like the 1998 GTS-R, the 92s etc seem to languish on eBay and elsewhere. Part of it is the passage of time and it may take another 20 years.

The snake is almost 20 years old and we may be in that period like the 70s where you could get 53 Vettes etc for a song. Many may be saying " I remember when you could buy a ........Viper for X dollars"

 

[JonB]

From your lips to God's ears.....................

 

[01sapphirebob]

Price could be an issue for some and those that are shopping right now are probably looking to get them for a "song" and don't want to pay the $$ for a top quality collector car.

 

[shine]

The economy. Cars aren't investments, and Vipers especially are premium toys.

People with extra cash aren't buying 2nd or 3rd cars right now.

 

[agentf1]

Price could be an issue for some and those that are shopping right now are probably looking to get them for a "song" and don't want to pay the $$ for a top quality collector car.

Bob is correct, the really nice low mileage super clean cars are getting farther and fewer apart and are going up in value. You average drivers are very reasonable right now. I am guessing as they get more rare they will all eventually hold their value. The question is will it be during my time.

 

[jax92]

It would be great if the Gen1 owners could get together and start laying the groundwork to provide the data needed for individuals to properly evaluate any cars they might consider for purchase. Just wishing that the prices would hold or go higher isn't the answer.

 

[Grisoman]

Think I saw an unmolested, very low miles black & tan Gen 1 go for $42,750 or so on Mecum last weekend. It wasn't a live auction, so unsure when it really happened.

 

[Viper #53]

Vipers, even my '92 RT/10 are too new to be real classics yet. More importantly, many Vipers were built compared to 1960s sports cars. Enjoy them for what they are: a fun sports car that is relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain.

 

[viperdrummer]

Vipers, even my '92 RT/10 are too new to be real classics yet. More importantly, many Vipers were built compared to 1960s sports cars. Enjoy them for what they are: a fun sports car that is relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain.

Your 92 is one of about 236 built for the US. Add in the totaled ones and you have a very rare car that compares well with many 50s and and 60s cars. Now 93 is a different story.

 

[Twister]

Viper hasnt even been dead for two years yet. Lets see how 2013 plays out if their still isnt a new viper

 

[troublemaker]

Vipers, even my '92 RT/10 are too new to be real classics yet. More importantly, many Vipers were built compared to 1960s sports cars. Enjoy them for what they are: a fun sports car that is relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain.

Many, not in the slightest.

Do you consider a first generation Camaro to be a classic? I do. But goin by the production numbers, they really shouldn't be then, 699,138. How many vipers were built over 19 years?
220,906 1967
235,147 1968
243,085 1969

 

[Cobraken]

Want to talk numbers? Look at first generation Mustangs.

 

[mattdillon]

Vipers, even my '92 RT/10 are too new to be real classics yet. More importantly, many Vipers were built compared to 1960s sports cars. Enjoy them for what they are: a fun sports car that is relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain.

I don't think ANY Viper would be a good investment just to buy & store it for years thinking it'll become a classic & you can double or triple your money on it. I think Viper #53 nailed it, just have fun with it & be glad you can still get some very nice ones pretty cheap! JMO

 

[PDCjonny]

I don't think ANY Viper would be a good investment just to buy & store it for years thinking it'll become a classic & you can double or triple your money on it. I think Viper #53 nailed it, just have fun with it & be glad you can still get some very nice ones pretty cheap! JMO

Don't tell AgentF that.

 

[Viper #53]

I don't compare sports cars to muscle cars and I'm not one to pay attention to numbers of units per year. I look at the total production of each gen. Dodge made less cars than corvette, etc. but still alot of Vipers of each gen exist. I love the Viper but the overall market is narrow for such a raw car.

 

[silver1331]

Russo and Steele has 1992 viper #9 (bob eaton car) at auction in january...their description is a bit off as the first 17 cars, not 7 were used factory cars for engineering, marketing, etc according to periodicals of the time. #18 was the first one sold to the public in May 92. This may set a mark for current values.

I agree with viperdrummer, the fundamentals of this car as far as a collectible are awesome given the low production numbers and what the viper meant to Dodge and the american car industry. There was a reason people were paying 150k for one in 1992 when they were new. I know a collector who's collection is measured in the $10s of millions and he has a saying that cars when they are 20 years old are just old cars, when they are 30 they are collectibles and i think he is right. I own 92 viper #12 which was a dodge engineering car which i bought a year and half ago for less than the cost of a new Toyota Camry. Its ridiculous where 92s trade today but for me its better than money in the bank even if it takes 10 years for me to get that return. meanwhile, enjoy the car.

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1992-Dodge-Viper-00009/15001

 

[Bonkers]

I think the problem is we are seeing a paradigm shift in what
owners want and expect out of their "high performance" cars.
I love the Viper for its simplistic and brutal methods of achieving
performance (I often consider buying a cheap Gen1 as a daily
driver) but the majority of weathly individuals (the ones who
have $25-50k sitting somewhere on their desk) that I see these
days want video-game technology to hold thier asses into the
road for them. They don't want a modern version of a 1960's
track car - they want a completely new and advanced performer
that LOOKS like a 1960's track car.

I think everyone who truely wants a viper has one by now and
the big ticket sales are from owners who have crashed/sold theirs
and are looking/willing to pay top dollar to reclaim their loss.

Once the mortgage market rebounds (which in my opinion is why
classic cars exploded in price anyway - people using their equity to
buy toys at 0.1% intrest) I think we'll see the values go up again.
Doesn't matter to me though - my car is not for sale at any price,
high or low.

 

[Leojmcca]

Well it's like baseball cards, when kids put them in their spokes and threw them out when they turned 15, they became rare because everyone had them when they were kids, but no one saved them....so very few exist 20-30 years later. A current collectible is hard because these days from the get go, people buy one and stick it into hibernation in the garage planning on making it into a collectible. So there is usually a pretty good supply of the newer items. (remember that 88 Z28 that some guy bought and stuck in a container with 5 miles on it...it sold for $20K) Plus you can still buy a new version of the viper. It's not like a 67 427 vette which mechanically, style etc. went the way of the dinosaur compared to the newer version.

 

[Coloviper]

After the next go at anti-recession boom, and a few people get some more money, more and more will be lost to damage and some deamnd will go up as they are relatively cheap right now. I do predict that after around 2020, you will find that all perfromance cars that are simplistic in nature will start to pick up again. Hell even the no stories FOX body Mustangs are starting to pick up and command some serious dough. The Viper's day will come for this appreciation in the early models and the 92's will be the ones to have, by a certain group of buyer. This is no different than the 100 GTSRs. They still hold their value extremely well and some have appreciated.

Enjoy them and take care of them, you will always do well. Me, I would sooner have put on all the miles I wanted to put on and then sell it later in life for more than I paid for it. Anytime you can do with any vehicle, that it is a win, win. The extreme stratosphere price tags have a lot more to the story than just this or that.

 

[viperdrummer]

I think Russo may have it wrong in a lot of respects. Lee, I believe had 00001 and Lutz had 00002 which I bought from Bob in 09.

Eaton wasv not Board Chair till 93 after these cars were produced. The Eaton car sold a few years back at BJ for a low 58k.

Lutz was the heir apparent to Lee but Eaton got the job and was a total and utter disaster.

 

[Coloviper]

It will be interesting to see what it goes for, however it really is not the pulse of the industry. I know all the unique 1 of 1 cars from any manufacturer that are on my future list would never go up for auction. They will be private sales as the owners of those cars care as much about them going to the right home, than getting every last dime out of them.

 

[BigBadViper]

The economy. Cars aren't investments, and Vipers especially are premium toys.

People with extra cash aren't buying 2nd or 3rd cars right now.

I agree that they aren't investments, but if you have extra cash, and I don't mean just a little extra, but plenty extra, now is the time to buy. There are unbelievable deals out there right now in both cars and houses and if you can pick up either one right now, you can get a great deal.

 

[georgethedog]

Simple... There are still pleanty of good low mileage originals around.

The original Viper prices were very high compared to something from the 60's-70's. There are a lot of good muscle cars going for in the $20-$30K range . That's about 6-7 times more than original price. People can afford $20-$30K. Great muscle cars are going for $40-$60K range, which is 10-15 times original price.

Now take the Viper... Current prices for Gen 1-3 are in the same ranges, but the original prices were higher. There is still a demand for cars in the $20-$40K range, and many Vipers are in that range, but if you want the Viper to do in price even what a decent muscle car has done, the Viper would cost 6-7 times its original price. That would put the Viper in the $300-400K range. Not too many people buying in that range. Not gonna happen in our lifetime if ever.

I would just be happy if my Gen 3 stayed in the low $40's.

 

[Paul Hawker]

With most muscle cars, the really valuable ones are the ones with ultra high performance compared to the run of the mill production series.

If you have multiple carbs, fuel injection, light weight construction, race history, rare stick shift, or even dealer package such as Yenko that makes the car valuable for the collector.

Most of the Vipers produced were all of the same configuration. All same HP/tranny/rear gear setups.

Cars like the GT2 with a bit more hp, better interior seat belts, aero upgrades will be the first collectables. Most of the other Vipers coming down the line were of the same configuration.

Only when there is a differentation that the collectors must have will the value increase.

I think the first cars going to the stratosphere will be the Comp Coupes with successful race history. They really make a statement in their race livery.

 

[JonB]

All you need is time......

The '53 vette and the '92 Viper are probably a valid comparison. The kid who doodled and drooled over the Viper needs to reach RETIREMENT age before there will be any appropriate pricing of the rare '92. Same as happened to Sixties Cobras.

The GT-2 spiked and dropped in the recession, and would be a "Good Buy" now in my opinion; as would a 92. But investing the money would earn far more, [but be waaaay less fun.]

 

[georgethedog]

All you need is time......

The '53 vette and the '92 Viper are probably a valid comparison. The kid who doodled and drooled over the Viper needs to reach RETIREMENT age before there will be any appropriate pricing of the rare '92. Same as happened to Sixties Cobras.

The GT-2 spiked and dropped in the recession, and would be a "Good Buy" now in my opinion; as would a 92. But investing the money would earn far more, [but be waaaay less fun.]

Agreed, but if I choose to invest to earn more--what would I invest in today???

 

[Coloviper]

The only true investment that pays off is investing in yourself, whether that be your own business or an education. EVERYTHING else is a gamble that only the right timing and luck decide upon.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I'm keeping my Vipers for the rest of my life so I really don't care what they're selling for.

 

[silver1331]

does anyone know what 92 viper #009 sold for at russo and steele?

 

[lilviv]

I personally believe we're at a low point for Viper value, and it should go up from here. My thinking is as follows:

1) The body is something dreams are made of - no other car was made before quite like it or will be again, quite like it. This is one of the reasons (while not in the same ballpark) old Mercedes-Benz 540K's are so tremendously valuable - automotive art that was rare and will never have a comparison again in the future.
1a) I don't think the modern pony cars personify American Muscle and even capture the essence of the early classic muscle cars quite like this car. This is a way to get a modern car from the "good old days" and still have something rare/special.
2) They were not high production run cars. From other threads on this forum, you can see that especially when broken down by color and year - each specimen of a Viper is a rare thing.
3) I have a knack for selling things right before they become valuable, and I just sold mine . . . history should tell the rest of you these are about to skyrocket. ;-)

On a side note, I ended up buying my 1999 in early 2007 for $50,500.00 (retail, and for which I feel I overpaid). I ended up trading it wholesale 5 years later for $40,000 even. The value of this car changed very little, and if anything . . . the economy got worse since early 2007 was essentially at the high.

My favorites are the 1996 Blue/Whites (possibly because I had posters of them as a teenager) and the 1999 GTS's (last year of the forged engine) - in my mind, those will be very desirable cars down the road.

-Vivek (lilviv)
http://personal.lilviv.com/motoring/toys/viper-gts.html