Clutch Wear Question

[Policy Limits]

I understand that like tires, this inquiry is dependent on personal use/driving habits. In general though, for a non track user putting 2k annually or less on the motor, what would you say is the average clutch life expectancy? Cost to replace?

Also my shift timing isn't 100% perfect(yet) so that might be a variable. When the clutch does go, will there be a warning light or do u just diagnose the old fashioned way with that distinctive burn smell? Might sound really premature and I suspect, like tires, that I'll likely have the originals for the entire period of time that I own the vehicle, but just curious.

 

[Jack B]

Forever at 2k per year.

I understand that like tires, this inquiry is dependent on personal use/driving habits. In general though, for a non track user putting 2k annually or less on the motor, what would you say is the average clutch life expectancy? Cost to replace?

Also my shift timing isn't 100% perfect(yet) so that might be a variable. When the clutch does go, will there be a warning light or do u just diagnose the old fashioned way with that distinctive burn smell? Might sound really premature and I suspect, like tires, that I'll likely have the originals for the entire period of time that I own the vehicle, but just curious.

 

[BadAndy]

Both "the bomb".

 

[BadAndy]

Hmm. Sorry. Meant that for Bob's plane pic. Not sure about posting replies on the vac app.

 

[Policy Limits]

Forever at 2k per year.

I think so too. How about for a high performance driver like yourself? Are you expected to replace at 20k?

 

[Nine Ball]

At stock power levels, that clutch should last 100K miles with normal driving. With racing use, maybe half that. You'll know when it slips when you put it into 5th gear on the highway at 60 mph and floor it, and the rpm goes up and the car doesn't accelerate.

Not sure what dealerships charge in labor, but I'd estimate 4-5 hours labor tops. Viper is the easiest car I've owned in terms of removing a transmission. No exhaust in the way, and all bellhousing bolts are easy to access. New clutch is probably a grand or less.

 

[PeerBlock]

I understand that like tires, this inquiry is dependent on personal use/driving habits. In general though, for a non track user putting 2k annually or less on the motor, what would you say is the average clutch life expectancy? Cost to replace?

Also my shift timing isn't 100% perfect(yet) so that might be a variable. When the clutch does go, will there be a warning light or do u just diagnose the old fashioned way with that distinctive burn smell? Might sound really premature and I suspect, like tires, that I'll likely have the originals for the entire period of time that I own the vehicle, but just curious.

Yeah the warning will be as 9 said, slippage, and other signs include a nasty smell like you get when you put new brakes on your car. If the clutch is slipping during normal driving you may not notice it, but the friction of slipping will make it heat up more than it should and make that smell. You shouldn't have clutch smell during normal driving; but if you smell it when racing it's not unusual.

You can also burn your clutch out by doing a bad launch/burnout. How? By revving the engine up and then slipping the clutch more than you should rather than dropping it. Watch this video and make sure that you don't do what he does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv--55qWdmE

 

[Jack B]

1. Bell housing bolts are hard to get to.

2 Trans weighs approx 130 lbs.

3. Slave cylinder can be a pain

4. All the. Under belly Pans have to come. Off

It is my least favorite job.

 

[Policy Limits]

How about long stops for example a long red light...best to keep the transmission in neutral for less clutch wear or is it immaterial if she's there in 1st? With the Lambo guys shared the opinion to leave her in neutral at long stop to preserve clutch life.

Also in the Lambo it was said to try to minimize use in reverse gear to preserve clutch life; is the snake different? I've noticed when in reverse in the snake I don't even require the accelerator; just let the clutch out a bit and she moves without it.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Clutches virtually never go out on a Viper. I honestly can not remember the last time we installed one, as most of the time the car just needs the clutch fluid flushed and replaced. There have been many customers who asked Mark Jorgensen to replace their clutch, only to come back in and find out their repair bill was a pittance, as only a flush was needed and the clutch was perfectly fine!

 

[swexlin]

Agree, fluid is important. When I bought my 03 3 years ago, with (at that time) 23,000 miles, clutch fluid was one of the first things I changed. Old stuff was dirty.

 

[NO HEMI]

Sorry to jump on here, but where can i take my car to change the clutch fluid?, i have 37 k on mine and after every good stomp the clutch pedal goes soft.

 

[ViperSmith]

How about long stops for example a long red light...best to keep the transmission in neutral for less clutch wear or is it immaterial if she's there in 1st? With the Lambo guys shared the opinion to leave her in neutral at long stop to preserve clutch life.

Also in the Lambo it was said to try to minimize use in reverse gear to preserve clutch life; is the snake different? I've noticed when in reverse in the snake I don't even require the accelerator; just let the clutch out a bit and she moves without it.

you are over thinking it.

if anything, i'll drop it in neutral at lights to simply save my knees

 

[MtnBiker]

How about long stops for example a long red light...best to keep the transmission in neutral for less clutch wear or is it immaterial if she's there in 1st? With the Lambo guys shared the opinion to leave her in neutral at long stop to preserve clutch life.

Also in the Lambo it was said to try to minimize use in reverse gear to preserve clutch life; is the snake different? I've noticed when in reverse in the snake I don't even require the accelerator; just let the clutch out a bit and she moves without it.

Basic rule...the clutch should only be engaged to change gears, and for as little time as necessary. At lights put it in neutral.

 

[PeerBlock]

How about long stops for example a long red light...best to keep the transmission in neutral for less clutch wear or is it immaterial if she's there in 1st? With the Lambo guys shared the opinion to leave her in neutral at long stop to preserve clutch life.

Won't matter for the clutch if you sit there in neutral or keep in in 1st with the clutch disengaged, but it will put stress on the throwout bearing...that said, I don't see the throwout bearing failing any time soon either. Just drive the car and enjoy it!

 

[Jack B]

Bill

You never drag raced a viper. Put drag slicks on any viper and clutch life goes down dramatically. If you don't drag, correct, it is a non-issue.

Clutches virtually never go out on a Viper. I honestly can not remember the last time we installed one, as most of the time the car just needs the clutch fluid flushed and replaced. There have been many customers who asked Mark Jorgensen to replace their clutch, only to come back in and find out their repair bill was a pittance, as only a flush was needed and the clutch was perfectly fine!

 

[Jack B]

It does not matter.

[WowQUOTE=MtnBiker;3198133]Basic rule...the clutch should only be engaged to change gears, and for as little time as necessary. At lights put it in neutral.[/QUOTE]

 

[HogWhisperer]

Yeah the warning will be as 9 said, slippage, and other signs include a nasty smell like you get when you put new brakes on your car. If the clutch is slipping during normal driving you may not notice it, but the friction of slipping will make it heat up more than it should and make that smell. You shouldn't have clutch smell during normal driving; but if you smell it when racing it's not unusual.

You can also burn your clutch out by doing a bad launch/burnout. How? By revving the engine up and then slipping the clutch more than you should rather than dropping it. Watch this video and make sure that you don't do what he does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv--55qWdmE

Wow, that was intense. LOL I can't believe the guy could not tell the difference in smell between tire smoke and clutch disc smoke. It was not a good day to be him.

 

[HogWhisperer]

How about long stops for example a long red light...best to keep the transmission in neutral for less clutch wear or is it immaterial if she's there in 1st? With the Lambo guys shared the opinion to leave her in neutral at long stop to preserve clutch life.

Also in the Lambo it was said to try to minimize use in reverse gear to preserve clutch life; is the snake different? I've noticed when in reverse in the snake I don't even require the accelerator; just let the clutch out a bit and she moves without it.

I can't speak to clutch performance in the newer Lambos but in my 98 VT Roadster, neutral at stop lights was mandatory if you wanted to avoid severe leg shake. LOL Talk about a tractor clutch! The Viper clutch is WAY more leg friendly at stop lights.

 

[Policy Limits]

Well Ferruccio was famous for Tractors lol

the Diablo is one of my favorite models...love the VT Roadster & the 6.0

As for the snake, definitely don't intend to drag race it and was just curious about the clutch. Appreciate the replies.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Jack,

Correct, only Drag Raced my Vipers a couple of times, but ran years , Road Racing , and have never changed one clutch. We have just seen very , very few clutch replacements, and agree Drag Racing is harder on components than road course activity.

 

[Jack B]

There is another way of thinking about it, drag racing is harder on a small number of specific parts. Road racing is extremely ******* a whole bunch of parts. You are right though, the viper clutch is the least of our worries. If you understand what causes wheel hop and how to solve that one item, drag racing is not that ******* a car, you race for 11 seconds, road racing can expose the engine, drive line and the chassis to severe stress for hours.

BTW, I never told you this, but, the only probem I had in doing business with Woodhouse was that there were no problems. One would think that with the special nature of our transaction something would go wrong, but, you did not let that happen - thank you.

Jack,

Correct, only Drag Raced my Vipers a couple of times, but ran years , Road Racing , and have never changed one clutch. We have just seen very , very few clutch replacements, and agree Drag Racing is harder on components than road course activity.

 

[HogWhisperer]

I have road raced and drag raced my '99 ACR. I have slicks and skinnies for drag racing and road racing tires and wheels for road racing. I have road raced it probably 15 times at Cresson (Motorsports Ranch) and at the Sun Burn Grand Prix here in Abilene at the airport and I've probably put 75 to 100 1/4 and 1/8th mile passes on my '99. Of course I have the bigger half shafts since with slicks it hooks a lot better than with street tires. I can't tell any difference in the clutch at all. Don't know if my experience is exception or the rule but it has certainly performed well for me. I won't say it is bullet proof but it has certainly met and exceeded my expectations.

 

[Jack B]

You are correct, I believe most viper driveline failures at the strip are due to wheel hop. If you do not wheel hop things stay together.

I have road raced and drag raced my '99 ACR. I have slicks and skinnies for drag racing and road racing tires and wheels for road racing. I have road raced it probably 15 times at Cresson (Motorsports Ranch) and at the Sun Burn Grand Prix here in Abilene at the airport and I've probably put 75 to 100 1/4 and 1/8th mile passes on my '99. Of course I have the bigger half shafts since with slicks it hooks a lot better than with street tires. I can't tell any difference in the clutch at all. Don't know if my experience is exception or the rule but it has certainly performed well for me. I won't say it is bullet proof but it has certainly met and exceeded my expectations.

 

[HogWhisperer]

Jack, with what car did you run the 10.1 at 145 mph through the traps?

 

[Grisoman]

Won't matter for the clutch if you sit there in neutral or keep in in 1st with the clutch disengaged, but it will put stress on the throwout bearing...that said, I don't see the throwout bearing failing any time soon either. Just drive the car and enjoy it!

The issue with the bearing is its seals that age and leak due to the relatively hostile environment in the bellhousing. Mine went with only about 12K on it.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Thanks for the nice comment , Jack --- always strive to do things easy and comfortable for my fellow Snakecharmers.

 

[Jack B]

That was the Gen 2. It could have been better, I never sorted out the traction issues till lately.

Jack, with what car did you run the 10.1 at 145 mph through the traps?