Competition?

[Matt M PA]

I am bound to get some "flames" on this one, but here's my .o2. I find very little in competition with the Viper. It is a hand built, very exclusive car, with really no equal. The Corvette is a mass produced car with so much techno-****-bang, that it hardly compares with the Viper's "back to basics" design. I suppose it would be better to compare Viper to Porsches and such, but when cost gets involved, they are not exactly similar. All that said...I have never seen any other car that has the recognition that the Viper has. Think about it...even after a few years of production, everyone knew what the Viper was, when people don't even look over at a red light at a Vette. Allow me to close by saying that I like all cars, and I mean no disrespect to Vettes, Porsches, etc, it's just my observation.

 

[Venom Lover]

Competition depends on category, so here's my opinion, FWIW (all with respect to cars currently in production).

Competition for road racing: Z06. Not based on personal experience (yet!) but based on reviews and comments by friends who road race a lot and now own Z06s.

Competition for drag racing: nothing in production today, unless you want to talk about modded F-bodies. Yeah, the Porsche 996 TT and 993 Turbo S turned good numbers in the car mags, but have you ever seen one on the track?

Competition for gawk factor: none. I really think cars like the 360 Modena are bland by comparison. About the only thing I can think of that is equally outrageous and cool looking is a Vector. Certainly there are other outrageous-looking cars that don't really appeal to me, such as the Diablo. I can never get the image out of my mind that the Diablo looks like a melted Countach.

As for competition in 2003, that's hard to say, since I don't know what the Viper will really be like in 2003. Will it have 500+ hp? Some say yes, across the board, some say only the GTS-R. I don't know enough to sort out what's truth (if truth even exists today). Also, I don't know what the competition will really do. Ford looks like it's rapidly imploding on itself, but then so did Chrysler in the late '80s, so who knows, they could emerge with something really great. But probably not. How about the C6 Vette? Could go to 400+ cid? Even as an optional engine to the 350? It would be about time, but knowing GM, they'll probably do enough market surveys to conclude that what few displacement freaks exist in the world have already bought Vipers, and so they'll wimp out. But the C6 Vette is possible competition.

P.S., Joe, I grew up in New Brighton. I know it's a long shot, but we don't know each other, do we?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I think it is really going to depend on what you are looking for. For all out performance, the Gen III Viper should be able to hold it's own against anything out there. As I had mentioned in a previous post somewhere, the year the first Viper debuted it was in a performance league of its own, especially among the domestics. I fully expect the 2003 to reestablish that gap. At VOI, the DC folks seemed pretty comfortable discussing a 525 horsepower figure. I would expect the braking to be the single biggest improvement. If you look at the latest Motor Trend, the Viper whupped the domestics in just about every category except braking. The 2001 ABS should help remedy that a bit as well. The other things we have heard is that the 2003 will have been on a diet. It should weigh less than the current model from what little I have heard.

The bottom line is that if you are looking for out and out performance, expect the Gen III Viper to deliver it in spades. You don't think the folks at DC would enter NASCAR and trumpet their Le Mans victories only to tone down the Viper, do you? Not a chance.

Now, as far as styling, no idea. The concept GTS/R looked pretty sweet in person. If you are buying the car as one that absolutely sets the mark for wild styling, then the 2003 may or may not be your car. Oh, and Ford will indeed have a pseudo entry: The Saleen S7 is supposed to get an "economy" version to appeal more to the masses. Since the "regular" version is already over a quarter million dollars, don't expect to see them at your local drag strip.

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Enjoy!

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I think there is a good bit of "aftermarket" comp for the Viper. I've owned (4) Vettes (3) of which were C5's. There cool but as said earlier too many of them and too many goodies for a "balls to the walls sports car". As far as the Z06 a sup'd up hardtop vette with sorry sets and a sticker that is outragous (sorry for those that have purchased) You can get that HP from just a couple of mods for the vette AND put a NICE down payment on a second car with what is left over. If that is your bag...cool but I've owned one of the hardtops and traded for my 96 Viper. Can you ever be the fastest on the road...NO but it's fun trying!!!

regards

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

A good driver is competition. I've seen a buddy of mine kill vipers in his camaro because of driving.I have run into some real fast cars, all with mods. Stock to stock there's not much out there.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Response to Vette 4 sec 0-60. Not so, Chevy lies. Actually tested to about 4.5 sec. Those extra tenths really cost.

 

[Matt M PA]

What really gets me is that GM has always supplied "ringers" to the magazines in order to make themselves look good...and sell their overhyped cars. If it's a Vette you like.....go get it, to each their own. I'll stick with my snake.

 

[phiebert]

I think a new Viper buyer put it best a couple weeks ago after debating about getting a Vette or a Viper. He told me...

"If I got a Vette and a Viper pulled up beside me at the lights, my heart would sink."

 

[Y2K5SRT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Corvette_racer:
eviper8ing...

quote:
sorry but the Z06 is only about 5000 dollars more than the base coupe and is about even with the Viper's times--0 to 60 in 4 flat and 1/4 mile in thirteen flat u should know what u r talking about before putting down other cars

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Love the Vettes and think the Z06 is one heck of a nice move by GM. However, the Viper will run 12 second quarter miles all day long (Popular Mechanics did 12.08, while other mags have gotten down into the 11's). The "thirteen flat" is not Viper territory. Even the most generous magazines (Motor Trend) show the Z06 being almost a full half second slower in the quarter. Big difference.

This is NOT a slam on the Vette by any means. Owned 'em and love 'em. However, in stock vs. stock configuration, the Z06 has not caught up with the Viper. Close, but not quite there in any category besides braking.

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

I wanted to race a Z06 a month ago but he didnt want to run. I just wanted to see what it had.

 

[Mike Adams]

In 2003 the aniversary year of the vette I would expect they will go all out. I suspect you will see a 6.0 litre engine ( I believe to race in alms you have to have the car in production within 2 yrs of starting racing). I am sure they will not let Dodge take the press like they did with original vipers. Competition is what drives inovation. Look at Motorcycles can't own one more than a year or yours sucking fumes.

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PS - do we have spell check yet

 

[Steve Ferguson]

The Shelby Cobra 427 and the Daytona Cobra. Anything else just doesn't come close. Sorry if this offends anyone, but sometimes the truth hurts!

 

[Double Venom]

Thank you Steve...

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Now if I could only figure out how to post a pic.
DV

 

[Vreracing]

You asked for it. I just couldn't control myself.

Click here for answer to the above post.

My answer

 

[Tenney]

Don't disagree. The Zo6 is a nice car. Though don't be too surprised if you find a Viper fan or two around here.

Also, not sure that the Vette spawned the Cobra. Though Shelby did approach Chevrolet with the concept first and they passed.

Oh, and no matter which car you prefer, vreracing's response is at least a little funny.

 

[RoyV101621]

I was talking to an auto dealer about his car and my Viper. He asked me, "What other cars did I consider, eight years ago, when I purchased my Viper?"

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I was confused.
I had NEVER thought about it!
I only wanted a Viper.
Competition? I think <FONT size="4">NOT</FONT s>

 

[Matt M PA]

I guess the easy answer is that there is no real competition for the Viper. When I got my first Viper...rightup til the delivery of the current 2000 (Thanks Bill!) I have wanted nothing else. As a "special" car, not an everyday driver, I have zero interest in owning a Vette, Porsche or anything other than a Viper.

 

[Stephen Yap]

The Z06 is just one of the choices though maybe most of the responders might not have considered anything else because they were specifically looking at American muscle solutions. I think that the competition includes other GT cars in the same performance category regardless of price and sophistication and also some pure race cars like the 996 Cup Car or the Panoz.

When I started looking at getting a replacement for my NSX in 1996, I was looking at performance (not only in a straight line but handling as well )and gawk factor as I don't want to look at it in my garage and wonder why I got something that was not visually appealing. One of the first articles that came out about the GTS coupes compared it to to the Diablo, the F50, and the 993TT and the performance certainly matched these exotics whilst the price blew them away. I have to admit if I was a billionaire, I would have one of each. Currently, you have newer models like the F360, the Z8, the 996TT, and the Z06 and performance wise, the Viper still matches up pretty well. I can live without the gadgetry and the driver aids but I like the paddle shifter, the ceramic brakes, and variable cam technology if the average Dodge technicians can service them without problems. Then you consider the club racing models like the 996 Cup Cars, the 360 Challenge, and the Panoz. You will find that the Viper with some mods still matches up well and on top of that you can drive it on the street. Maybe the Z06 always comes up as a comparison because the formula is similar. Huge displacement and torque, front engine, rwd, etc....like the Porsches and BMWs get lumped together.

 

[HogWhisperer]

Darth Vetter,

No doubt the Z06 is a huge step in the right direction..... and you are right about the Z06 'package' being much more than a 'warmed over hardtop'. At 3115 lbs with full gas tank, great braking, active handling, balance, and the 400 HP LS6, it is a great sports car. I hope that no Viper owner slights the Z06 because that would be a mistake, it's a great car! Truly, I was shocked at how well it runs and handles.

BUT, how do I compare it to my '99 ACR?

Although the Z06 handles well and has ample power, it still does not handle as well as my ACR on the street. (I haven't had the Z06 to the track yet so I can only compare it to my ACR on the street) I did take the Z06 through some 90 degree turns and sweepers out at our airport yesterday and it did well. However, it still does not stick as well as the Viper. (The active handling feature is strange to say the least, still, it is a really neat feature) I can't explain Motor Trends test, I can only report my findings.

As for power? The Z06 seriously surprised me. It accelerates much harder than I thought it would but still, the Viper delivers much more torque and noticeably better acceleration.

All in all, the Z06 is a great ride and is not all that far from the Viper in terms of performance and CERTAINLY is no 'warmed over hardtop'..... none the less, in my limited and humble experience, it still will be providing a nice view (albeit closeup) of the south end of my Viper.

It sure is nice to see that there are now two world class American sports cars!!!!

 

[Mike H]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Corvette_racer:
OK, maybe you are right... the 4.0 is not the fastest test, it was 4.3 according to CAR AND DRIVER. I did make a mistake though, the 1/4 mile is 12.7 not thirteen flat.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I deon't know about evryone elso but at the road courses I have yet to have a vette keep up with me, and as far as the posts about the 427 cobra's , great cars in their day, but really now, Thay are no match for my Viper on a road course....but we do love the competition......ps...my first time at 1/4 mile was a 12.4...and Im a rookie at it

 

[Paul Fischer]

I'm waiting for the next generation Porsche TT to show it's fangs at the track and the WSC 360's to make it out. As a track rookie I had no problem getting around any other car in my stock motored GTS. The fun part was beating race prepped cars (trailered Vettes, T1 Supra's, Porsches and even a couple WSC Ferraris). While the driver is the crucial factor I found myself passing folks with decades of experience in their C5' etc. and consider any beginner's luck on my part to be the choice of car I was in. Hopefully I'll be back in the game by next season and get to mix it up with more experienced drivers. And if Corvette and Porsche are more competitive by then so much the better, it improves the breed. If Darth is hangin' with Albert he's gonna be one of the guys to beat. Bring your Black Beauty out and join us at TWS sometime.

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

Yup, I was there. The Z06 smoked the viper. It was a good time. I do have to say, my race with the busa, the first run he got me,I forgot to turn on the gas. The second run, I got his a$$, not by much but I won. When I get this fuel problem fixed Its going to be hell on wheels. Ok, back to Darth's car. It is fast and from what I could see, he could drive. Stock vipers beware. My buddy Joel in his camaro SS with minor mods spanks 85% of whats out on the road if not more.

 

[getbit]

"If it weren't for the Vette, there wouldn't have been a Shelby Cobra....."


Not sure about that quote. Shelby wasn't even concerned with the corvette. He was going RACING! Against the europeans. The corvette (which I have owned, 98 C5 convertible 6 spd, and loved), was never really a standout on the track. The cobra set the standard for pure sports car. Not the other way around.

sorry to nitpick but Carol deserves better than that.

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

Miami Subs on Westheimer and the beltway 8 normally around 10:00 pm

 

[rschiltz]

Agree Dennis. I'm also a regular CF member who's on this site.

 

[Venom Lover]

You Vette guys are not welcome here. You're all trouble-makers, especially Darth. What kind of name is "Darth", anyway?

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:


Just kidding!!! I couldn't resist.

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Hey, seriously, you guys are very hospitable to me and the other Viper guys who post on the Corvette Forum. As you probably know, I happen to enjoy my Z06 as well!

Darth, I'm glad you made your original post on this thread a ways back to defend the Z06. I was going to have to say a lot of that stuff, too, but you said it much better and with much more authority since you've owned your Z06 longer than I have!

 

[rschiltz]

I second what Dennis says, to have both would be a dream.