Congratulations Whiners!

[SmokinV10]

If Dodge is trying to appeal to the more "middle-of-the-road", Mild, less hard-core buyer, then I think they missed the boat here. Lets classify this buyer. The car is going to cost $80-90K. So that makes him a somewhat wealthy individual (the average joe cant afford our cars). He requires more amenities and does not want to sacrifice too much comfort for convenience (otherwise they would have made a car more like the Gen I or II). So what market is this? This is the Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes Benz market. These guys want prestige prestige prestige. These are the same guys over there in the other Forums saying that no matter what our cars are "just a Dodge". These are the guys who need Stability Control, Traction Control, a Heads up Display, Power Seats, Adjustable power steering column. This is the ultra-high end corvette buyer. This guy cares what everyone thinks. He wants a civilized car.
The problem is now, the viper doesnt really do anything well. Yes it appeals to the current hard-care Viper owner with its engine. But its interior, refinements, and styling turn us off. It appeals more to the less-********* buyer, but wont beat porsche, ferrari, masserati, lamborghini, MBZ, BMW in prestige. DC doesnt have the loaner car infrastructure, and the pretty facilities that these buyers expect when they take their car into service. No Cappuccino, no leather sofas in the waiting room. These buyers dont want to be sitting next to the blue-collar neon owner when he is waiting for an oil change. So what DC has created is a Car that appeals half way to everyone, But not all the way to anyone....thats not smart marketing. That is delivering a POOR VALUE PROPOSITION.
I had a Stanford University Marketing professor who taught us how to deliver good value prositions. There was a case study on how Levi Strauss tried to make suits. No ONE BOUGHT THEIR SUITS! Why? Because who wants a suit that is off the shelf and says levi strauss? They tried to appeal to both the high end and low end customer at the same time, but did neither well. This is BASIC marketing and they are failing. I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Viper. Thats my $.02....more like $1.02

 

[Snakester]

Smokin'

You make some good points, but The Viper's Dodge dealerships are the same ones who have been servicing Vipers for 10 years.
I doubt that that many Mercedes/Rolls Royce owners would be cross-shopping with Vipers even if the Dodge dealers have special service facilities.

As far as the competition goes, the new SRT-10 Viper has moved itself closer to the Vette and Porsche markets because they have addressed practical comfort and design improvements as well as performance improvements to the car.

Personally, I think that the regular 911 ($70K-$80K+) is relatively dull looking, and both the C5 Vette and SRT-10 look more sporty and stylish.

The new Mercedes SL500 looks great to me, but it lacks performance, and the SL55 is fast enough, but will cost as much as a Ferrari or 996TT, and of course they are aiming for more of a prestige/luxury market anyway.

But the SRT-10 is still a good upmarket move from Corvettes, and Boxsters providing more performance and exclusivity for people who want a reasonably civilized supercar for under $100K.

-Dean.

 

[FUSCUCLA1]

Now let me play devil's advocate..........maybe I am seeing it wrong but if this new car is the one that is going to appeal to the masses and what everyone wants and is going to buy, then how is my car going to appreciate? Who is going to want, let alone pay more for a crude, old, clown shoe viper? Everyone is saying how the current design appeals to a limited market and that its saturated so DC had to expand to a broader market. Well according to the argument that smaller saturated market is just that saturated. We all already own a viper. Unless there is some unfortunate circumstance most (Chuck may want a few more still :LOL

of us won't be purchasing another GenI/II. According to what everyone is saying most non-viper owners will be interested in the SRT.

The younger generation as they get drivers licenses and $$$$ will opt for the newer car. I am 28 and there are few people in my generation that appreciate the muscle cars of the passed, most people want the newest/fastest/etc. maybe its a southern california thing. The only people I see driving classics are either those who spent their younger years dreaming and drooling over that particular car or those who always wanted it but could never afford it. That is part of the reason (I think) that the countach still has a market. Someone wanted it badly at one time and now that they can afford it they own it.

So there will be interest and a market for the current car but will it be massive (kids younger than 10 today most likely won't be interested)? I do agree that our cars will be worth more due to the limited production but I don't see how it can be anything major. Sorry I rambled a bit too much.

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bsteinhagen:
The real issue here is that DC is not offering us (the GTS owners) a hot coupe version of the car. For some strange reason, they ignored the fact that the GTS outsold the RT-10 and redesigned the RT-10. I think the mistake was that two new models should have been introduced to the Viper nation.


The design of the SRT-10 made me want to get my 2001 GTS coupe! I think what most of us want is "somebody at DC" to tell us they are working on the next generation GTS coupe and give us a hint(spy photo...whatever) of what is coming out in the future. I beleive the frustration on this forum is that a number of GTS lovers feel they have been ignored at this point by DC.


I am hoping that the next GTS looks like the competiion car...that one stirs me inside.


It would sure be nice to know that somebody at DC reads this forum....listens to us and will bring on the next generation coupe!


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree more.

 

[CAS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
IT's about $$'s.... got it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike, <FONT size="4">THAT"S THE FU@&ING PROBLEM!!!</FONT s>, got it?

No Flame Intended, Just An Observation.

Clint
EDIT: Really, no flame intended, it just get's frustrating, sorry..

 

[jcaspar1]

From Mike Burton:
"They need to make $$'s on this car. That means that they changed the direction of the car AT THE LOSS OF SOME OF YOUR INTERST IN IT! Accept that and you will be happier. Did DC screw you? well, if you consider them changing the Viper to make $$'s rather than killing it "screwing" you, then yeah they screwed you. Whatcha going to do about it?"

That's simple...... buy a GT-40!

 

[Mike Brunton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SmokinV10:
He requires more amenities and does not want to sacrifice too much comfort for convenience (otherwise they would have made a car more like the Gen I or II). So what market is this? This is the Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes Benz market. These guys want prestige prestige prestige. These are the same guys over there in the other Forums saying that no matter what our cars are "just a Dodge". These are the guys who need Stability Control, Traction Control, a Heads up Display, Power Seats, Adjustable power steering column. This is the ultra-high end corvette buyer. This guy cares what everyone thinks. He wants a civilized car.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smokin,

Your post centers around the fact that the Viper fulfilled a previously untapped market for people who wanted something wild, but less expensive than the Ferraris/Lambos, etc. I don't think that is correct. I myself came from a few Corvettes to the Viper, and alot of other folks have owned Porsches, Ferraris, Lotuses, Mercedes, and other cars. I don't think most of us drive the Viper every day, so either the Viper is our "expensive car" and we have something else that is cheaper for daily driving, or we have something else that is more expensive than the Viper and the Viper is our economical supercar. So, for the folks who have more expensive cars than the Viper for daily driving, they could obviously afford something more like a Ferrari or 911TT, so they have already made that decision to give up prestige for an inexpensive supercar. As for the folks for whom the Viper is their most expensive car, what else are they going to do? Buy Corvettes (which are WAY less agressive looking than the Viper), or are they going to save for a Ferrari, with it's associated repair headaches and costs? I don't think so. I don't see how we can say that Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus, etc guys won't be interested in the SRT when we have SO SO many of them as Viper owners RIGHT NOW. The SRT Viper may not be as aggressive as the previous model, but it's certainly alot more desirable and aggressive than a Corvette or a Mustang Cobra, or even a 911. I think we presume to know the Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo guys too well - we assume they would never buy a Dodge, even though many here own these cars now or did in the past. Doesn't hold water, IMO.


Fuscucla,

Honestly, I don't think your car is going to appreciate - at least not for a long long time. There are always new people in a market - it's not fixed, but the market for GenII Vipers is dwindling, not expanding. As the supply ends, people will either bid up the prices of the cars, or they will move to other cars - and that will determine the prices. I personally think the price of the GenII cars will probably bottom out pretty close to where it is now, and around $40k is probably the least you're going to get a GTS for, for quite a while.


bsteinhagen,

There was not (apparently) the money available to make a GTS AND a convertible. We have been told that this is "chapter 3" for the Viper. There is already a coupe and a targa, and now there is a true convertible. It has a top that is pretty stiff, and we have been told that a hardtop will be available 6 months after the SRT debuts. I would think a hardtop on an SRT should fulfill the wishes of most that want a GTS - provided it is styles well. As for the GTS coming out - as far as I know, they are *not* working on one. Maybe if SRT sales are good, they will feel that an additional model in the lineup will still generate enough sales. I'm sure there are people (I am probably one of them) who would take an "SGTS" over an SRT, so unless the SRT is selling out every year for at least 2-3 years, why would they even consider making a GTS and taking a bunch of SRT sales away?

Clint,

So, are you suggesting that Dodge LOSE money to give us a car that we want? What a great business proposition! Perhaps you should take that idea to some investors and see if they will fund you? Maybe your business plan could read "we won't make any money (actually we will lose a bunch), but we'll make alot of people happy!". I'm sure that's a winner! on a more realistic note, the original Viper wasn't made to make a bunch of folks happy, it was done to revitalize a company, to create an image, and to explore new manufacturing techniques. They don't need to do that anymore. The purpose of THIS Viper is to kick asp on the world stage in performance, and to open the market up to buyers who would not previously consider a Viper. The fact that YOU don't like it is (like it or not) irrelevant to Dodge, because they are saying it has been a home run with their intended market. So, if we are in agreement that you are not a member of the target market for this car, what are you going to do about that? Buy a GTS and be happy, or complain about something that you cannot possibly hope to change?

 

[Dixter]

What I was trying to say in my earlier post was that Dodge left
the current coup fan out of the third chapter.

I think that if Dodge had given us a convertable and a coup then
there wouldn't be any where near the bickering that the club is going through now.

I have never said the SRT-10 was an ugly or bad car... its just
not a coup... give me the SGTS.

 

[King GTS]

And therein lies the quandry Dixter. GTS has outsold RT-10 2-1 since its inception yet they revamp the RT and scrap the GTS! That's how they repay GTS customers that preferred the GTS OVER the RT-10 and backed it up with our wallet? So where does that leave people like me who've bought 3 GTS's over the years? Loyal customers. I could've spent my money ANYWHERE! ANYWHERE! I stayed true to Dodge. SOL? Why wouldn't they give us a GTS version? Are we just spinning our wheels & should we just wait & see? I don't know but I'm not happy about it. The SRT would be just fine if they gave us a choice. For those that hate it, a GTS version. Or something close to the Competition Coupe. I don't understand. I'm angry! And I know I'm not alone!

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

plenty of

You must be registered for see images

to go with the

You must be registered for see images

hey.. doesn't the last guy look a tad like the guy in the SRT ad???

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MES:

So your saying we should be thankful the new Viper looks not-so-good because that will keep the value of the older cars high, because not as many people will trade them in for the new model? What kind of logic is that? Hmmm lets see maybe the new Corvette can be designed to look like a GEO Metro that way current Vette owners will be so repulsed by the new Vette that they will not trade their old car away, makes no sense

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 1000%! (ONE THOUSAND)

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kungfool:

His ego was humbled by the awesome power of the original Viper.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ahahahaha, fooly, I did't know you did this stuff... that is great

 

[Marv S]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by King GTS:
And therein lies the quandry Dixter. GTS has outsold RT-10 2-1 since its inception <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, since the '96 R/T was still a gen 1 it's hard to compare that year sales to a '96 GTS and even '97 was a skewed production year. By '98 the initial rush for the GTS had leveled. Compare the '98 through '01 and the sales are about even. In '01 most states had more roadsters sold than GTS cars.

Some cold weather states even sold many more RT/10's than GTS cars.

Last Year in IL it was 121 roadsters to 82 GTS

NY was 58 to 38

WI was 20 to 11 .....

Check out Spring 2002 Viper Mag

 

[King GTS]

The bottom line IS, THE GTS HAS OTSOLD THE RT-10 2-1 SINCE ITS INCEPTION. That's a fact that's not up for debate.

 

[Mike Brunton]

jcaspar,

You are so absolutely correct it's stunning!

There ARE alternatives to the Viper. The new GT-40 promises to be what (I think) people are missing from the SRT. How the SRT stacks up to the GT-40 will be very interesting.

What will also be interesting is how long of a run the GT-40 endures before it gets redesigned, and what it looks (and performs) like after the redesign.

Trey,

I think what Marv S is saying is that in 96, people could choose either an 'old' roadster or a totally new GTS. In '97, there were production problems at the factory that limited the number of roadsters made. People were told "can't make it, take a GTS if you want a Viper this year". 98 was the first year the GTS and RT/10 has really been equal, and according to Marv, sales have been pretty equal those years.

If I had to take a shot at answering your question, I would say it's alot easier to make a convertible that can please coupe folks by using a hardtop, than it is to make a coupe that can't hope to please the convertible guys. An SRT with a hardtop bolted in place will be just like a coupe, I think.

 

[Joseph Houss]

"If they want to build a Ferrari ******...then they have to act like one...and not treat this as another car line!"

You're kidding....right?

The Viper is produced like NO other car line! 1800 or so units a year from a factory that hand assembles only 5 awesome Vipers a day. I believe that's actually LESS cars then Ferrari! Price? Well, just try to buy a 360 Modena for anywhere near the neighborhood of even 100K! Oh, and that's right, last time I was at Pocono for a Ferrari/Viper track day, they looked great in our rear view mirrors! Not only does Dodge exceed in engineering a car with BETTER performance than almost every Ferrari (OK, If money was no object...an F50 would be great), but our Friendly dealers have them IN STOCK, and even discount them! Warranty? How 'bout a 7/100,000 thrown in with a Ferrari? Maintenance? Ever hear about the 15,000 mile "tune up" on our Italian competitors? Not exactly inexpensive.

Now, as far as styling, Ferrari NEVER allows a body style continue for more than 4-5 years, and in most cases, changes the look DRAMATICALLY for each new generation.

This debate is interesting, but will never conclude.

Here's the deal:

For all you guys that think the current generation car can compete with the new SRT (and let's keep appearance out of this, because, unless I'm mistaken, MOST of us want to be number 1 in performance, and the SRT is built, from the ground up, with absolute performance as top priority), let's wait 'til the SRT's come down the line. Next step? Find a current generation coupe that has the equal horsepower of the SRT (500 or so) and put it on the track, same day, same driver.

Anyone want to guess what the outcome will be?

 

[Viper Specialty]

JOE- It is all about your wallet.

Dont forget that the SRT has many "racing" components on it that the current Vipers do not have. Add those on to the current car, and guess what? your back to square 1 again. the ONLY thing the SRT has over the current car that cannot be changed EASILY be changes is a slightly different size. Drag? get a body kit. brakes? get StopTech. Engine? get some smoothies/K&N/Headers. Weight? throw out the passenger seat. And on top of that, the SRT's STOCK "racing" components will STILL NOT be as good as aftermarket kits! so, you will have too add them to the SRT too. If you wanted to turn this into an all out performance war, either car can be made just as fast. the only form the cars are at a different level is stock... but most serious people upgrade those components to aftermarket anyway.

Back to my original thought, the SRT ONLY will outperform the current car because it comes with "racing Goodies" that are better than the current cars... they may be better, but NOT better than aftermarket! With enough money, you can have anything made to compete with anything else. dont deny that fact.

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipermad:

Originally posted by Joseph Houss:
For all you guys that think the current generation car can compete with the new SRT (and let's keep appearance out of this, because, unless I'm mistaken, MOST of us want to be number 1 in performance, and the SRT is built, from the ground up, with absolute performance as top priority),<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>See.....as I sit back in lurk-mode and watch this all go by....I am struck by how you missed part of the argument, Mr. Houss (JK!!!!). Joe, you may be right in saying that MOST of us want to be number 1 in performance.....but what I see from the outside looking in is that many/some do not think the performance increase should have been at the cost of decreased styling. Dodge PROVED they could make a BEAST when they built the first, ORIGINAL Viper. I would tend to offer you a wager of a milkshake (common bet in our house...or is that Houss....), anyway...that small wager that even if the SRT-10 does out-perform the "original"

Viper as you expect (and since I am a poser I have no cares either way), the performance increase will NOT be enough to sway those who are not excited about the styling.

Everyone wants performance....I'll agree on that. But you cannot discount styling/appearance when you compare cars.

I'm not even on the fence on this one....I do not like the car, but I do not hate it. I will not talk bad about it, and I will not sing it praises. It is a nice car.

Signed: Vipermad...the voice of......reason?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M WIT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


IN A BIG NUT SHELL! THAT'S ALL WE'RE REALLY SAYING!!!! EXCELLENT POST TONY!!


And Joe, give that man his shake! He earned it!!!!

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clint Sever:
Mike,

You are correct; I am not the in the target demographic for this car. But, I believe that a true sports car incorporates (in no particular order) head-turning looks, performance, and style in one incredible package. It doesn't need a demographic or 'market research' to appeal to a specialized market; it appeals to most everyone, of all ages. You don't just look at it; it grabs your attention and focuses it. It hit's you in the gut, it makes your adreniline rush while it's simply standing still. It's got soul.. When you have reached that, you know that you have a true masterpiece of a car. The Gen I and II had the initial looks; it's performance was almost a bonus... If looks take a backseat to performance, why doesn't (Insert Manufacturer of Choice Here) put thier motor/trans with some specs and promised performance data up on a stand and display it instead of the car? Because regardless of #'s, looks of an automobile are what initially draws you in. Let me ask you a question: if you knew NOTHING about DC's and PVO's performance goals and potential of the SRT, and all you had seen were pics of the car, would you be as enthusiastic about it as you are? Honestly? If you would be, than I am truely suprised..

And when it comes down to it, I'm not suggesting that DC produce the SRT to break even; profit needs to be had. But, the point I'm making here is when the financial people start calling the shots, the product becomes more and more affected, often in a negative manner. If the sole motive of the SRT is to make money, and they did demographics to find an optimal customer base, than styled the car from that base's opinions, we have found the problem. The car's less-than-agressive styling can be traced to the fact that the soul and charisma of the car took a back seat to the sound of the cash-register. And that, in itself, is an utter shame; that is not what the Viper nameplate, history, and nation is about, much less what it deserves.

Regards,

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clint,

There is alot of merit to what you have to say. However, you say the new design has no soul. That maybe true in Your opinion. "Soul" in terms of design is subjective because it is in the eye of the beholder. Soul to me is everything, including design, which I like of the new car, but also performance and everything else that the SRT wil excel at.
[/endclint

]

I laugh at all the projections people make at how this car will fail miserably and dealers will be just plain giving them away. There is a whole new target for these cars as well as existing owners. DC is not trying to insult current owners. They have put forth their design, some like it some don't. How do you think Porsche 911 owners felt when the 996 came out with a water cooled engine instead of the air. They were pissed about that and also the design. Now to me the new Porsche is a hit and who can buy a new turbo for invoice? Same goes for the new ferrari's, when the 360 replaced the 355 people thought the 360 was an ugly car, but now you see alot of people selling the 355's and buying 360's. This new car is a whole new genereation, I can't see why people have to keep comming and voicing how ugly it is and how "performance isn't everything". I personally would rather have more power and sacrifice looks. How would people feel if the GEN I and II Viper's had a 350 H.P. 360 in it? Would you mind because "hey, the car looks great"

I think not.

Craig

 

[CAS]

Hey, thanks for the reply Craig

.

I agree with you that I am willing to sacrifice looks for performance-to a certain extent.

RE: Dealers selling SRT's: I have no doubt that they will be snatched up, and quite quickly at that. I'm sure that the blue-haired 50-somethings will be ultra excited to get thier hands on one. But, in 10 years, the Gen I and II is still gonna be turning heads, and the Gen III is gonna be another car on the road. There's something intangible about the Gen I and II's that makes them so alluring to so many people, and the SRT just doesn't have that.

Just MHO, Talk to you later Craig.

 

[Snakester]

Actually, I think that the Ferrari 355/360 is a good example relative to the new SRT-10 Viper.

Personally, I love the look of the 355, and I'd buy a used 355 Spyder over a 360 coupe even if they were the same price, but there is no doubt that the 360 is a better design, and a faster car.

But even though I like the 355's looks much better, I wouldn't campaign Ferrari to go back and just put the go-fast mechanicals of the 360 into the 355 because I don't like the looks of the 360 as much. I'd just buy the car that appeals to me the most.

-Dean.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Final GTS,

Not to be too argumentative, but I disagree completely with your comments. There is NO 'bodykit' for the Viper that is going to bring it close in drag to an SRT. As for the brakes, the problem with the Vipers brakes (the long stopping distances) is the lack of weight transfer over the front wheels, which causes them to lock too quickly. I have never seen a test of 60-0 distances for various aftermarket braking systems. On my GTS, I can lock the wheels up at 100mph easily - and I can certainly do it from 60mph to 0mph - so even with ABS, if I modulate the brakes perfectly, am I going to stop on par with a Z06 or 911? No way. It's a fundamental design problem of the car. What about the suspension geometry? The differential? Are you going to remount your suspension to make it work better? And install a differential from the SRT in your GTS? I can just picture this "GTS" that is "on par" with the SRT... it will have some horrendous bodykit that makes it stop looking like a Viper, super-expensive brake upgrade kit, massive frams and suspension changes, a half-gutted interior, serious engine work, bigger wheels, different tires, and so on. Will it even be a Viper anymore? What is required to make a GenI on par with a GenII? There are folks who go to great lengths to modify GenI cars, but overall, the GenII is just a better platform. And all the numbers will never tell how the car drives day to day. The GenII (especially the last couple of model years) at LIGHT YEARS ahead of the GenI and even early/mid GenII cars in daily driveability. No matter what you do to the '02 GTS, it will never be able to match all the improvements of the SRT. With all due respect, it's like the C4 Corvette guys doing mods to hang with the C5 guys... even if you match the performance, it's still a custom modded car and not comparable to a C5.. that doesn't even begin to touch on warranty issues.

bsteinhagen,

DC has MAJOR money problems - they lost, what, something like multiple BILLIONS last year? As for Ferrari, they have their niche that works for them. They are a very low volume manufacturer and I think their cheapest car is up around $160k. They have an extensive F1 program, which draws alot of allure to their product line. I don't think what works for Ferrari will work for Dodge. Porsche, BMW, Lotus all have their own little niches too that work well for them but aren't replicable by others, IMO. As for building a Ferrari ******, I think the SRT will be one, just like the GTS is one. We may drool over the styling of the Ferraris and their performance. We are getting much MORE performance in the SRT. As for the styling? Well, Ferraris are in the mid-high 100's to START, the Viper is a good 1/2 of that price. If Ferrari could sell 10x more cars, wouldn't they? Couldn't Ford build a Mustang with all the style of a Ferrari? Why don't they? Because in the real world, there is a limited market for such styled cars. There isn't a market for 10,000 F360's priced at $90k, IMO. What would you say if the Viper had all the performance it will have, had all the style of any Ferrari, and the price was bumped up to $185k?

 

[CAS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
There is NO 'bodykit' for the Viper that is going to bring it close in drag to an SRT. As for the brakes, the problem with the Vipers brakes (the long stopping distances) is the lack of weight transfer over the front wheels, which causes them to lock too quickly. I have never seen a test of 60-0 distances for various aftermarket braking systems. On my GTS, I can lock the wheels up at 100mph easily - and I can certainly do it from 60mph to 0mph - so even with ABS, if I modulate the brakes perfectly, am I going to stop on par with a Z06 or 911? No way. It's a fundamental design problem of the car. What about the suspension geometry? The differential? Are you going to remount your suspension to make it work better? And install a differential from the SRT in your GTS? I can just picture this "GTS" that is "on par" with the SRT... it will have some horrendous bodykit that makes it stop looking like a Viper, super-expensive brake upgrade kit, massive frams and suspension changes, a half-gutted interior, serious engine work, bigger wheels, different tires, and so on. Will it even be a Viper anymore? What is required to make a GenI on par with a GenII? There are folks who go to great lengths to modify GenI cars, but overall, the GenII is just a better platform. And all the numbers will never tell how the car drives day to day. The GenII (especially the last couple of model years) at LIGHT YEARS ahead of the GenI and even early/mid GenII cars in daily driveability. No matter what you do to the '02 GTS, it will never be able to match all the improvements of the SRT. With all due respect, it's like the C4 Corvette guys doing mods to hang with the C5 guys... even if you match the performance, it's still a custom modded car and not comparable to a C5.. that doesn't even begin to touch on warranty issues.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike, at least we can agree somewhere

. I agree with you absolutely; there is no denying the fact that the SRT will be a much better platform, and as for braking, I read that the SRT will be 60-0 at or under 100'. That is INSANE, and congrats to DC for creating a world-******; I just wish it looked better

.

Regards,
Clint

 

[Viper Specialty]

I am not even going to bother responding. Those were all just examples, not to be taken exactly as stated. Is it just me or are virtually the only people that REALLY defend the SRT for something its not are the people with them on ORDER?

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Final GTS:
Is it just me or are virtually the only people that REALLY defend the SRT for something its not are the people with them on ORDER?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well wouldn't that make sense?


I'd still bet there are alot of people not on this board that would want the car but don't have the $$

 

[bad viper]

The marketplace and the marketplace alone will prove
if D-C made a mistake, built an ugly car, an unpopular car,etc.
We can discuss it till the cows come home....

Relax we all have opinions. For my part I'm getting the Comp Coupe now and will wait for the GTS version or GT-40
whichever comes first!

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

I was trying to say in regards to the comment of "only people purchasing the car are defending it" that there are surely others that would defend it but just aren't on the board.
Craig


and yes just like the current Viper.. I am a poser i know

 

[SmokinV10]

I think everyone will agree that there are quite a few of us who are very dissapointed in Damlier Chryslers styling of the SRT. I will also admit that there are many who like or tolerate the new styling. The part that DC should be worried about is the same part that shows their failure. THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY OF US WHO FALL INTO THE FIRST CATEGORY! Yes, I do admit, that car isnt the ugliest thing to roll out of detroit. Yes there are many uglier creations. The SRT did fall out of the ugly tree, it just didnt fall out of it, climb back out and fall out of it again!

I am dissapointed that DC chose to style the car the way they did.

I am not sure of the marketing/cost reasons that inspired DC to take the toned-down approach. Maybe they wanted to reduce manufacturing costs (so they got rid of the clam-shelled hood). Maybe they wanted to attract more buyers, but I think they took a gamble that will fail. Yes they may tap a few more buyers that are more "moderate", but in the process they will lose a whole lot of buyers that are hard-core.

So some of you, will stand by the car and get on your soap box defending its greatness. But we all have our minds made up already. We dont like the car. If you do, thats your right, and you can keep on liking it. Just be happy with your SRT's and we will be happy with our Gen I's and II's. The fact of the matter is that in a couple of years, if we decide to sell our Vipers, I for one, wont be cruising in the VCA, but will be cruising with these same guys in the GT40 forum.....time will tell. But im still dissapointed. We can keep on blowing Sunshine up our A$$ about the SRT, but I for one am NOT going to spend that kind of cash on something that looks so BLAH.

I dont remember anyone screaming about how ugly the GTS was when it first came out....do you? Food for thought....hmmmmmm...

 

[Snakester]

The part of the arguement that you could hot rod the current Viper to exceed the performance of the SRT-10 is true, but the same could be said (in extreme) of a Honda Civic which could be modded to be faster than the SRT-10 on a track.

I think that Joe's point is that the SRT-10 is a ground-up effort, rather than just hot rodding the existing car.

It has been traditional (so far) with the Viper to have the roadster first, and the coupe to follow. And even though the GTS has beautiful, flowing lines, in most sports cars the coupe is the base model, and the convertible is higher up (except for special race models).

I'm now staring at the new AutoWeek cover with the SRT-10, and it looks really nice to me, and the coming hardtop (if done right) will probably appeal more to the current GTS lovers.

It seems pointless to bash the SRT-10, because it's coming out, and more than enough people will like them to buy all that DC will build.

You guys who hate the SRT-10 styling should just encourage DC to put out a street-legal version of the Comp Coupe earlier.

-Dean.

 

[CAS]

Mike,

You are correct; I am not the in the target demographic for this car. But, I believe that a true sports car incorporates (in no particular order) head-turning looks, performance, and style in one incredible package. It doesn't need a demographic or 'market research' to appeal to a specialized market; it appeals to most everyone, of all ages. You don't just look at it; it grabs your attention and focuses it. It hit's you in the gut, it makes your adreniline rush while it's simply standing still. It's got soul.. When you have reached that, you know that you have a true masterpiece of a car. The Gen I and II had the initial looks; it's performance was almost a bonus... If looks take a backseat to performance, why doesn't (Insert Manufacturer of Choice Here) put thier motor/trans with some specs and promised performance data up on a stand and display it instead of the car? Because regardless of #'s, looks of an automobile are what initially draws you in. Let me ask you a question: if you knew NOTHING about DC's and PVO's performance goals and potential of the SRT, and all you had seen were pics of the car, would you be as enthusiastic about it as you are? Honestly? If you would be, than I am truely suprised..

And when it comes down to it, I'm not suggesting that DC produce the SRT to break even; profit needs to be had. But, the point I'm making here is when the financial people start calling the shots, the product becomes more and more affected, often in a negative manner. If the sole motive of the SRT is to make money, and they did demographics to find an optimal customer base, than styled the car from that base's opinions, we have found the problem. The car's less-than-agressive styling can be traced to the fact that the soul and charisma of the car took a back seat to the sound of the cash-register. And that, in itself, is an utter shame; that is not what the Viper nameplate, history, and nation is about, much less what it deserves.

Regards,