Considering getting a 1999 GTS.

[Rapid Transit]

Hi all,

I have been driving mostly Camaros and Vettes, some imports here and there. I've always admired the Viper, never bash it, I understand the positives and negatives of driving a Viper, just don't have actual experience. What I know is from reading on this forum. I currently drive a C6Z modified to 600 HP, 525 TQ, NA. I think everyone who's into sports cars should have a Viper at least once. So I know all about Z06s. I know the Viper will get lots more attention, I don't like that aspect of it, but will put up with it. MPG is a low consideration, but what's it like? My Z06 now gets 17 mpg. Is the Viper OK to daily drive? That's what I'm planning on doing if I get it, not gonna be a garage queen. Please brief me on the 1999, the motor is forged, right? Any weak points that need addressing or thoroughly checked out? What about cost of maintenance? Would a 1999 GTS be reliable? The one I'm looking at has about 21000 miles. Is there a FAQ that lists differences between generations?

Thanks,

 

[v10enomous]

You need to drive a GTS and that will answer most of your questions. I've driven a Z06 and other C6 Vettes and they just make better daily drivers. A GTS IMO is a much more fun car to drive and all Vipers are rock solid reliable and easy to maintain but far more C6 owners drive their car on a daily basis than GTS owners. The GTS is far more unique and fun to drive and more pleasing to the eye and it will hold it's value better than the Z06 but it's a lot tougher to get in and out of and has few of the conveniences that people are accustomed to these days plus it's going to be an older car to start off with.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Sorry...posted a response in the wrong thread.

THANKS for the correction, VYPR BYT 94

 

[VYPR BYT 94]

Our 1999 GTS with OEM measures stripes measures:

Each stripe is 8 inches wide...and there is a 4 3/8 inch space between the two stripes. These measurements are the same from front to rear.

A "search" will confirm same...use "stripe width", and, if you need to know it..."stripe length".

Ooops Steve... I think you may have opened the wrong tab in your browser and meant to post this here...

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/662654-Racing-stripes.

 

[uvbnbit]

Our 1999 GTS with OEM measures stripes measures:

Each stripe is 8 inches wide...and there is a 4 3/8 inch space between the two stripes. These measurements are the same from front to rear.

A "search" will confirm same...use "stripe width", and, if you need to know it..."stripe length".

Well? that about sums up everything you need to know about a '99 GTS.

 

[v10enomous]

Hopefully a few guys here that own both cars will chime in.

 

[Rapid Transit]

You need to drive a GTS and that will answer most of your questions. I've driven a Z06 and other C6 Vettes and they just make better daily drivers. A GTS IMO is a much more fun car to drive and all Vipers are rock solid reliable and easy to maintain but far more C6 owners drive their car on a daily basis than GTS owners. The GTS is far more unique and fun to drive and more pleasing to the eye and it will hold it's value better than the Z06 but it's a lot tougher to get in and out of and has few of the conveniences that people are accustomed to these days plus it's going to be an older car to start off with.

So you're kind of suggesting that I not daily drive the GTS? Hard to get in and out of? Doesn't bother me. I have driven a 2003 coupe, nothing I didn't expect. But my favorite Viper is the mid-late 90s GTS. I don't mind the car being older at all. I just don't know what parts need to be replaced in a car this old. Thanks,

 

[v10enomous]

Sounds like you should be OK then. You will love the GTS. A well cared for 21k mile car should be trouble free and need only routine fluid changes and stuff. There are a couple of quirky things that you may find like the stops that keep the doors open break and the rubber molding on the side windows peeling off are common issues. 1999 is the favorite year GTS for some folks as it has some interior upgrades and it's the last year for the forged motor and lumpy cam and ACR edition. 2001-2002 have ABS while 2000 model year has neither forged motor nor ABS but was offered in a very desirable steel gray color.

So you're kind of suggesting that I not daily drive the GTS? Hard to get in and out of? Doesn't bother me. I have driven a 2003 coupe, nothing I didn't expect. But my favorite Viper is the mid-late 90s GTS. I don't mind the car being older at all. I just don't know what parts need to be replaced in a car this old. Thanks,

 

[Fatboy 18]

Yes your right, 1999 was the last year for forged pistons. So if you want to go big numbers on FI you can bolt your parts straight on

Buy it, you will love it Car should also have 18 inch wheels stock.

My car is a 2000, (what they call a creampuff, due to the different engine internals) Factory figures for MPG are 12 around town and 21 MPG on the run.

Watch the gear shifting, more Vipers have been written off from missed shifts than anything else, Deer come a close 2nd
Its easy to go from the top of 3rd gear to 2nd when you thought you were going to 4th! The engines do have a cut out if you over rev them, but not a good idea to go there too often

Make sure you get a Carfax if you are unsure of the cars history, its not foolproof but its another ***** in your armour

As I said in an earlier post today on another thread, Budget for a new set of tires, Check the dates on the side wall. Old pilot sport 1s, even if they have good tread will be past there best and will feel like Hockey pucks in damp conditions.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Assuming you have driven an 2006 Coupe( ?) , as there was not a coupe made in 2003. Overall there are plenty of folks who have used their Vipers for daily drivers. There is even a young lady in her 70s who has two Vipers with over 100,000 miles, and pretty sure she doesn't just drive them to church and back, ha,ha.

 

[Steve M]

Watch the gear shifting, more Vipers have been written off from missed shifts than anything else, Deer come a close 2nd
Its easy to go from the top of 3rd gear to 2nd when you thought you were going to 4th! The engines do have a cut out if you over rev them, but not a good idea to go there too often

Flipping your hand over (thumb facing down) for the 3-4 upshift will pretty much eliminate that problem. The PCM imposed rev-limiter is no match for a mechanical over-rev.

 

[Rapid Transit]

Assuming you have driven an 2006 Coupe( ?) , as there was not a coupe made in 2003. Overall there are plenty of folks who have used their Vipers for daily drivers. There is even a young lady in her 70s who has two Vipers with over 100,000 miles, and pretty sure she doesn't just drive them to church and back, ha,ha.

My bad, it was a convertible, 2003. Does that sound correct?
Thanks,

 

[Fatboy 18]

Flipping your hand over (thumb facing down) for the 3-4 upshift will pretty much eliminate that problem. The PCM imposed rev-limiter is no match for a mechanical over-rev.

I aggree, but I have hit it a couple of times due to missed shifts! I hate the gearbox gate. But lets not go there, too many other threads on the subject!

 

[troublemaker]

The 99 is considered the best year mechanically, all the right new parts with the proper carry overs from the earlier models. I don't have an issue daily driving mine, but I am only in my mid 30s, maybe down the road in a couple decades it might not be the best idea. Getting in and out seems to be the only tricky part, but once you perfect the sit and twist you will be fine. As far as reliability goes, you might be looking at one if the most under stressed motors out there and a pretty solid drivetrain behind it.

 

[Dom426h]

I aggree, but I have hit it a couple of times due to missed shifts! I hate the gearbox gate. But lets not go there, too many other threads on the subject!

I Love the mechanical fealing of the tremecT56. The only problem is the stock shifter (...and the user)
The stock shifter dosnt have enough (if any) self centering action to keep the shift shaft in the 2/4 gate line. When you upgrade to ANY aftermarket shifter this problem is resolved and if you are still mistakenly shifting from 3rd to 2nd it is a personal problem. Remember, When going from 3rd to 4th the shifter should be pulled stright back with the centerline of the car. Not the centerline from the shifter to you(which would be going to 2nd)

With an aftermarket shifter the 2nd to 3rd shift is a breeze as the shifter literally wants to go there since the spring is pushing it from the 1/2 gate to the 3/4 gate.

 

[Dom426h]

I think everyone who's into sports cars should have a Viper at least once.

I disagree. If this happened then an even larger % then now would have salvage titles or be in a salvage yard.

I do think that every car guy should go for a ride as a passenger in a Viper

 

[Venomiss]

Use the search and pop in
differences by year,
differences Gen 2 & Gen 3,
or info on 1999 Viper.

This in one of many threads on this subject for you to read up on from the search. Good luck!
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/650529-Help-Me-Choose-02-GTS-OR-03-Viper?highlight=differences+years


[url]http://socalviper.com/
[/URL]

 

[Bonkers]

I know the Viper will get lots more attention, I don't like that aspect of
it, but will put up with it.

What part of the attention are you concerned with? For the most part
the only downside of attention with mine is when speeding in a group -
a cop with pull you over before the corolla. Otherwise, out of all the
interactions I've had with strangers I feel 95% were overwhelmingly
positive.

MPG is a low consideration, but what's it like? My Z06 now
gets 17 mpg.

Before the modifications I was averaging 18.751mpg and climbing.
With some moderate tuning I am now at a stable 16.701mpg. I
consider myself a long distance spirited driver with at least one track
event per year.

Is the Viper OK to daily drive?

I think so. The Z06 is a little easier for me to get in and out of, but I
wouldn't trade the experience for the world.

Please brief me on the 1999, the motor is forged, right?

The internals on the 98-99 cars are forged, but generally speaking if
you plan on serious modification the cost of pistons are hardly a
consideration. For mild boost and thin wallet (like a Roe Supercharger
and, well Me) the forge pistons are a plus. But if you're looking at
spending $30k on a twin turbo I would just float a couple hundred on
new internals anyway. All the Gen2 motors have proven reliable
roadworthy engines.

Any weak points that need addressing or thoroughly checked
out?

Title and history. And please get a local to double check the car for you,
a second set of eyes never hurts.

What about cost of maintenance?

Daily maintenance? If you do it yourself its about as cheap as it comes.
Vipertechs can be pricey for oil changes, but other than the wires (last
set was $95 at partsrack) every other maintenance component is off
the shelf (for instance the plugs and oil filter are the same for a Ram)

I think there is one serious consideration you need to think about
before switching from Vette to Viper. The Viper (especially the 99's and
earlier) are perfectly okay with letting you die. Just about everything on
the Vette is designed to save your ass if you screw up or over drive -
the GTS is more like sitting on a sidewinder missile and lighting the
fuse. When you get yours (and I really hope you do) do not start out
driving it like your 600hp Vette - it will either kill you, or worse make
you think its a crummy car. Treat it like an armed missile and when it
does finally go off you'll be in for one hell of a ride.

Good luck!

 

[Red Snake]

I have a C-5 and a blown 97 GTS. The C-5 is a far better daily driver. Its not even close.

The GTS is 1000 times wilder, nastier and meaner. Its not even close.

They are 2 completely different animals. Its all about what you are looking for. Drive one before you buy. Its the only way you'll know if its going to work for you.

 

[Rapid Transit]

What part of the attention are you concerned with? For the most part
the only downside of attention with mine is when speeding in a group -
a cop with pull you over before the corolla. Otherwise, out of all the
interactions I've had with strangers I feel 95% were overwhelmingly
positive.


Before the modifications I was averaging 18.751mpg and climbing.
With some moderate tuning I am now at a stable 16.701mpg. I
consider myself a long distance spirited driver with at least one track
event per year.


I think so. The Z06 is a little easier for me to get in and out of, but I
wouldn't trade the experience for the world.


The internals on the 98-99 cars are forged, but generally speaking if
you plan on serious modification the cost of pistons are hardly a
consideration. For mild boost and thin wallet (like a Roe Supercharger
and, well Me) the forge pistons are a plus. But if you're looking at
spending $30k on a twin turbo I would just float a couple hundred on
new internals anyway. All the Gen2 motors have proven reliable
roadworthy engines.


Title and history. And please get a local to double check the car for you,
a second set of eyes never hurts.


Daily maintenance? If you do it yourself its about as cheap as it comes.
Vipertechs can be pricey for oil changes, but other than the wires (last
set was $95 at partsrack) every other maintenance component is off
the shelf (for instance the plugs and oil filter are the same for a Ram)

I think there is one serious consideration you need to think about
before switching from Vette to Viper. The Viper (especially the 99's and
earlier) are perfectly okay with letting you die. Just about everything on
the Vette is designed to save your ass if you screw up or over drive -
the GTS is more like sitting on a sidewinder missile and lighting the
fuse. When you get yours (and I really hope you do) do not start out
driving it like your 600hp Vette - it will either kill you, or worse make
you think its a crummy car. Treat it like an armed missile and when it
does finally go off you'll be in for one hell of a ride.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the good replies from everyone. To answer your detailed questions:

Gawk factor: Oftentimes I just want to blend in. I don't feel comfortable standing out and be the center of attention. But I guess that's not a choice when driving a Viper. I guess I'm kinda worried about just parking it at some public place, say, when going out to dinner, or in a shopping plaza parking lot. If I end up getting it, I'll have to learn how to deal with it.

Engine reliability: I don't plan on doing any internal mod at all. I know the car is slower and performance-wise, not at the same level as my Z06. However, there are other aspects of the Viper GTS that trump the Vette. I don't need the fastest thing on wheel with this car. I admire the timeless design of the 2nd Gen GTS. The blue/white GTS has been one of my favorite since its inception. To me, that design hasn't aged one bit. The rawness and crude nature of the beast is one of its attraction.

Maintenance: I do all routine stuff myself. Don't see the need for a Viper tech, unless something complicated develops.

Safety consideration when switching from the Vette to Viper: I drive pretty conservatively on public roads. Nothing crazy like street racing, or onramp romp in wet weather,... I'll do my best to stay civilized.

 

[Fatboy 18]

I Love the mechanical feeling of the tremecT56. The only problem is the stock shifter (...and the user)
The stock shifter doesn't have enough (if any) self centering action to keep the shift shaft in the 2/4 gate line. When you upgrade to ANY aftermarket shifter this problem is resolved and if you are still mistakenly shifting from 3rd to 2nd it is a personal problem. Remember, When going from 3rd to 4th the shifter should be pulled stright back with the centerline of the car. Not the centerline from the shifter to you(which would be going to 2nd)

With an aftermarket shifter the 2nd to 3rd shift is a breeze as the shifter literally wants to go there since the spring is pushing it from the 1/2 gate to the 3/4 gate.

Sorry But I disagree with this,
I had a stock shifter in my car fitted with a short MGW knob. The stock shifter did not self centre! Gearbox gate takes some getting used to, still occasionally missed shifts!
Read all the posts about changing to Stiffer engine mounts and Transmission mounts, So forked out the moneys and fitted everything including Billet transmission cross member. Still miss shifts!
Had enough of it, Purchased Hurst Shifter. Cue Ball knob from MGW, It feels different but guess what...Yep still occasionally miss shifts and this shifter too does not self centre even with the new springs.

I did see a post the other day by Dan Cragin, he said the T56 boxes can suffer from a slightly bent input shaft from the gate selector causing the gearshift to be slightly stiff and not self centre! I had never heard of this before and mabye this is the route of my problem?

Having driven Sticks 90% of my driving life, the Viper shift is the worst I have ever encountered.

I love my car, but if I'm honest, hate the Gearbox! It may seem radical but I've even looked at the costings of a Sequential gearbox to get over the problem. And yes I tend to turn my thumb down and elbow out to change gear, but I really don't think I should have to I do tend to drive my car hard, hitting the lower red/full yellow on the rev counter before changing gear and I'm always wondering (hoping) I got the correct gear! I had a T5 Gearbox in my Cobra before the Viper and never had a problem, the gate was much ,much better.

Rant over!

 

[Red Snake]

I guess I'm kinda worried about just parking it at some public place, say, when going out to dinner, or in a shopping plaza parking lot. If I end up getting it, I'll have to learn how to deal with it.

This is a huge problem. I do not park mine ANYWHERE out of my sight.

TONS TONS TONS of haters out there and leaving it alone is not an option for me. I know it will get keyed or worse if I am not watching it.

I have no second thoughts on leaving the Vette parked unattended but NEVER the Viper.

 

[Fatboy 18]

This is a huge problem. I do not park mine ANYWHERE out of my sight.

TONS TONS TONS of haters out there and leaving it alone is not an option for me. I know it will get keyed or worse if I am not watching it.

I have no second thoughts on leaving the Vette parked unattended but NEVER the Viper.

Same over here, No way I would leave a Viper unattended on a public street or parking lot. As you say it would get Keyed or worse, the panels would get damaged by Mums who cant drive their 4x4s in parking lots. Remember, the front hood incorporates the wings, so if someone swipes it that is a Very Very expensive part of the car, if I recall correctly over $6000! Side sills at $600 a piece! this is not the sort of car to leave on the street!

 

[charlesj]

Regarding MPG, I have a 97 GTS and I average 13 - 15 city, a little higher on the highway. I guarantee you will get a TON more attention in a Viper. 99% positive attention. I only ever had one negative attention experience. I was cruising along, driving the speed limit 45 MPH zone in the passing lane and as I was passing this guy in normal traffic, he just started completely freaking out and cursing at me and pointing his finger at me.


Then he started to tail me. It was very bizarre. He pulled alongside me again and was completely cussing and freaking out. I remained calm and eventually lost him by getting behind him and turning off the road. It puzzles me to this day because I didn't do a thing to provoke him. Could have been a case of mistaken identity??? I don't know but in any event, that is the only negative attention I have ever received.

 

[v10enomous]

Tree Huggers

Regarding MPG, I have a 97 GTS and I average 13 - 15 city, a little higher on the highway. I guarantee you will get a TON more attention in a Viper. 99% positive attention. I only ever had one negative attention experience. I was cruising along, driving the speed limit 45 MPH zone in the passing lane and as I was passing this guy in normal traffic, he just started completely freaking out and cursing at me and pointing his finger at me.


Then he started to tail me. It was very bizarre. He pulled alongside me again and was completely cussing and freaking out. I remained calm and eventually lost him by getting behind him and turning off the road. It puzzles me to this day because I didn't do a thing to provoke him. Could have been a case of mistaken identity??? I don't know but in any event, that is the only negative attention I have ever received.

 

[djviper]

This is a huge problem. I do not park mine ANYWHERE out of my sight.

TONS TONS TONS of haters out there and leaving it alone is not an option for me. I know it will get keyed or worse if I am not watching it.

I have no second thoughts on leaving the Vette parked unattended but NEVER the Viper.

I 2nd this... I once returned to my car parked at a shopping center to find a soiled diaper crammed in one of the hood gills. :-(

 

[CEJ]

Regarding MPG

MPG? What's that?

I've heard about folks that use a Viper for their DD, but the way folks drive nowadays, I'd rather drive something that won't break my heart if it gets bashed up.

A '99 would be a great choice, but for a DD you might want to consider a 2001 or 2002 for the ABS. Especially if you'll be driving in rush hour traffic.

 

[Fatboy 18]

Should be SMG Smiles per Gallon

Giving 20 odd Joy rides around the Top Gear track in the UK, I used 2, 1/2 Tank fulls of fuel in a day

 

[Dom426h]

Sorry But I disagree with this,
I had a stock shifter in my car fitted with a short MGW knob. The stock shifter did not self centre!

Right, Thats what i said. "The stock shifter doesn't have enough (if any) self centering action to keep the shift shaft in the 2/4 gate line. When you upgrade to ANY aftermarket shifter this problem is resolved"

When i said aftermarket shifter i meant the actual mechanisim. Like the $300 part from Hurst or B&M. The short shafts and/or flashy knobs are more of a personal preference thing and in some cases make shifing harder.

If you have a Hurst shifter and it does not center properly then it might not be installed properly. Two things i can think of is your mounting bolts might be loose, or the gasket/shim might be the wrong thickness. I dont have any experience with the Hurst though. My B&M shifts perfect and self-centers like it should.

And yes I tend to turn my thumb down and elbow out to change gear, but I really don't think I should have to

When shifting from 3rd to 4th all that you are doing is pushing the shaft stright into the trans by pulling the shift knob/lever stright back. No side effort should be applied. If you apply side effort(like pulling back toward yourself which would be like 10-25degrees off axis) then that is operator error.

 

[Fatboy 18]

I will re-visit this gate issue, but there are a whole bunch of threads out there on this issue, so its not just me who has experenced the problem