Cream-puff goes Pop

[steelskeet]

It looks like I will be rebuilding my 02' GTS motor and repairing the heads(hopefullly).
It has a Roe @ 5.5lbs, headers,no-cats, Vec-2, water-****, built trans, and tuned by Weaver.

It appears the water/**** failed(bottle was full when it should have been very low) and I guess that lead to the detonation. The top land of the #4 piston is shredded and the heads are beat up I included a picture of the worse one. That looks to be the only damage. What ***** is I really enjoyed the car right were it was at around 570 and thought I was done with most expensive parts of the car.

I want to get back in the 570-630 range without ****. I'm tired of F&^%ing with it. Obviously forged pistons are in my future, I was thinking dished to drop compression to 8.5-1? Thinking that might help with detonation? I know stock rods are supposed to be fine up to the 800hp range, but I think replacing them would be smart. A few builders I spoke with wanted to ditch the VEC and go with SCT. I also was thinking 8lb pulley since I am going forged, but is that safe without water/****? Helpful tips are welcome.

 

[vpower01]

Sorry to see that. Maybe go with turbos?
Roe Racing's Twin Turbo Kits for 92-06 Vipers & Ram SRT-10's - Twin Turbo Kits & Accessories - Roe Racing
Good luck whatever you do.

 

[plumcrazy]

dropping the CR isnt the trick IMO, its proper tuning and setup. 570 sounds high for a 5 pound roe car. even with W/M, thats gotta be kind of aggressive but weaver knows his stuff ? thats the reason id never use W/M, one little hiccup and you are in trouble. not worth it in my opinion. as far as 8lb, it seems MOST guys use W/M but talk to your tuner, its up to him if you ask me.

ditch the VEC for an SCT or AEM

its easy for ME to spend your money but do it once and do it right. build it to handle more power than you need and spend cash on the tuner ! the best money spent is in tuning

 

[KNG SNKE]

And this thread further makes me happy about selling my w/m kit. It is another point of failure. Good luck with the rebuild.

 

[Russ M]

Even if your car had forged pistons results would be the same, your water **** was obviously the only thing keeping your motor in 1 piece.

Leave the compression stock, lowering it for low boost is pointless. And tbh low compression is kinda old school with modern engine management you can get the best of both worlds. But you gotta spend the money on that engine management what you had was a band aid, and it cost you alot more than the price of good engine management system. So unless you spend the money right now on something more than good enough to do everything right, you might as well just fix it cheap and get the **** working again.

To make 570 from a Roe car at 5 psi you will need a very good set of heads, realistically expect to run 10psi for that type of power.

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

No water **** here for that reason,,, Could.nt be arsed with filling it up all the time and the worries of it going wrong......

I got cauldwell heads
10lb 2.4 roe
forged internals
SCT
Tuned by DC

Makes a lot neater install as well

 

[Red Snake]

You do NOT have to use water/**** on the 8 lb Roe set up. I ran mine that way and made 635 rwhp.

I didn't start using w/m until I stepped up to the 10 pound pulley. The trick to safe use of w/m is to use the w/m just for cooling effect.

 

[jckrieger]

This is why I switched my old Shadow CSX to E85 instead of using water/****. I had one engine failure due to the alcohol controller failing. It makes a lot more sense to only have 1 fuel system to worry about.

 

[CSXT802]

This is why I switched my old Shadow CSX to E85 instead of using water/****. I had one engine failure due to the alcohol controller failing. It makes a lot more sense to only have 1 fuel system to worry about.

How much boost when the controller failed. As I know you can run 20-22psi on pump with a good intercooler on those cars. I ran 30+ psi on my CSX-T with water/****.

 

[DrumrBoy]

If you're happy with high 5's, then NA may be an option. Greg Good heads, a decent cam, TBs and a good tune'll put down 575.....and never a need to worry about WM or blower oil levels either!

 

[speedracervr4]

The trick to safe use of w/m is to use the w/m just for cooling effect.

Very true. I run it on all my vehicles.Good luck with your build.

 

[eucharistos]

If you're happy with high 5's, then NA may be an option. Greg Good heads, a decent cam, TBs and a good tune'll put down 575.....and never a need to worry about WM or blower oil levels either!

good info, is this set-up as low end torquey as a 5 lb roe

 

[KNG SNKE]

good info, is this set-up as low end torquey as a 5 lb roe

Yes it should be if not more however the trade off is sight and sound. Your motor will look and sound stock with a heavy cam.

As far as running water **** for cooling I did not think you could. I was told when you spray w/m you need to advance timing. You can't just spray it in your intake and not account for it in your tune and that still leaves detonation risk if t fails. This is the 3rd w/m failure I have heard of since I have been on here.

 

[eucharistos]

thanks for the reply KNG SNKE

 

[EllowViper]

Yes it broke...it happens running on the edge. Bigger question is to troubleshoot why the W/M did not go on. Was it controlled by the VEC PWM feature? Separate Boost referenced switch? Separate window switch or progressive controller? Pump fail? Blah Blah Blah. Do you have a visual indicator (LED) that lights up when it comes on? THe only time I have had problems with my W/M is when the VEC failed to activate the relay. I knew it right away since my LED did not light up heading into boost...so I never got into the boost that hard knowing my system was not operational. Never resolved that issue and am using boost referenced relays for my boost juice now. Love it.

 

[speedracervr4]

It's also nice to have a "prime" switch inside to make sure the pump/led is working.

 

[DrumrBoy]

good info, is this set-up as low end torquey as a 5 lb roe

Depends on the cam of course but generally speaking, yes.

The engine will look stock (because there's no box up there) but depending on what exhaust you run, it definitely doesn't need to sound stock.

 

[KNG SNKE]

Depends on the cam of course but generally speaking, yes.

The engine will look stock (because there's no box up there) but depending on what exhaust you run, it definitely doesn't need to sound stock.

My statement of sounding stock was not directed toward exhaust, it was directed toward the whine of the superchargers.

 

[JohnnyViper]

ok here are some newbie supercharge questions, I know very little on this subject, I'm considering buying a 2001 roe supercharger RT with a 6.5 pulley, W/M setup and a vec 3. If I want to remove the W/M setup what would take its place and what would the cost be, also what should I look out for upon my inspection?

 

[KNG SNKE]

Check PM Johnny.

 

[JohnnyViper]

Thanks!!!!

 

[EllowViper]

Johnny needs to check out Sammy's 2001 Yellow R/T with the ROE and many other goodies. You will not find a cleaner 01 R/T than Sammy's...I believe Ritchie is listing it for him.

 

[KNG SNKE]

If Ellow is recommending a car it is a solid car. Will give you the run down on what to expect and inspect tonight.

 

[kyleblix]

Sorry to hear about the engine. Good luck with the rebuild.

 

[speedracervr4]

As far as running water **** for cooling I did not think you could. I was told when you spray w/m you need to advance timing. You can't just spray it in your intake and not account for it in your tune and that still leaves detonation risk if t fails.

"If you don’t plan to increase boost or ignition timing, use the system to compensate for a lean fuel mixture or simply as a safety device / cool air performance enhancer for hot days." quoted from Roe's website. I believe it deals with the mixture of ****/water...more **** higher octane/less cooling. More water less ****/more cooling. I'm no tuner though.

 

[steelskeet]

So what I am gathering is, compression can stay stock, I can go 8lb boost
without W/M, with a good tune. And SCT is a good choice and HP will be whatever it is.

 

[rw99]

What's the intercooler setup? Is it optimal?...sounds like it may not be if a methanol kit was used at only 5-6 psi. IMO, this type of setup should be able to be adequately cooled by intercooling alone.

I run an AlkyControl kit on my turbo Trans Am (LS1)@ 11.5 psi. It's boost referenced, operating on its own... you dial in the "start" level of boost and a ramp rate. Knock on wood, never had a problem... had it for, jeez, probably 5 years now. At WOT the IATs are 30F below ambient. Grand National guys have been using these with great success for decades.

That said, if I were going to choose a new setup for an FI car I would be more likely to have the car tuned without methanol... and then add a boost actuated methanol system with a very small jet. Just a little mist to help keep IATs under control, not enough to run too rich. And you could dial that in pretty easily, logging IAT and AFR on your wideband.

BTW, I use 100% MeOH for my TA.

 

[eucharistos]

roe's aren't normally intercooled are they

 

[ViperGTS]

The title is misleading. It's not the cream-puff going "pop" - it's your "pushing the limits" that went down the gutter.

The Viper engines are terrible reliable - under normal operation - plenty of +100.000 miles cars out there

 

[plumcrazy]

a roe sc viper does not have an intercooler