DC-Skip Barber Poor Business Decisions?

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Can you imagine the excitement and learning experience Viper owners will receive in a Mazda? Skip pad in a Truck that is fine, braking basics also fine, pushing an RX on the autocross compared to a Viper, is comparing apple to oranges.

Mazda is slowing gaining ground with sports driving enthusiast. Their name has been all over Laguna Seca for the 5 or six years. Now they are the main brand for Skip Barber, the largest driving school in the world.

Where is the brilliance once possessed by DC? :bonker:

The loss of Bob Lutz and other's mid level managers(Bob Champine, etc) is showing by D-C's present management who has little to no understanding or appreciation for the history of Dodge's turn around that started in 1989 with the Viper concept car. Which made a boring and dying brand an exciting company for buyers and Dodge employees. Le Mans(ORECA, Viper) success made the sports car world take notice. Then Mercedes bought Chrysler and the downward spiral started and continues. The influence of Wolfgang and his brethren continues. Wolfgang is the primary reason Viper no longer races at Le Mans. He lost face when his 99 AMG Mercedes(he was in charge of AMG at the time) flew better that it raced. His self confidence and his lack of brilliance continued by pulling the Viper out of World Class sports car racing.

If the D part of DC lacks the appreciation for car history then they should sell the Chrysler division to a company who appreciates owners who love cars. :usa:

Skip Barber also failed in the performance sports car platform area by not continuing with the Viper. They must be taking lessons from DC?

For most of the Skip Barber Vehicles Mazda is a good choice but losing the Viper is a loss for all parties including Viper owners and future Viper customers that were born when they drove a Viper at Skip Barber.

I am very disappointed that Dodge was not able to continue their relationship with Skip Barber! And I for one will be a squeaky wheel at DC and Skip Barber until there is a Driving School with Vipers as the ultimate learning and driving experience! :nono:
 

Dave Moore

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Well said Fred. I sat a table with some Barber guys last week at an SRT day and those guys were disappointed as well. I have read a number of your other posts as well on this topic and was wondering if you have any idea where a letter writting campaign might be addressed to DC and Skip Barber? We need to do more than just complain to each other on this site. We need to make sure they hear us loud and clear. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Dave
 

418viper

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It's probably a return on investment type deal. Vipers are obviously more expensive to maintain than a mazda. Probably could buy 5 sets of mazda tires for one set of viper tires. I wonder what the facts are? If DC pulled their financial support for Skip than he may have had no other choice???
 

Tom F&L GoR

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How many voted with their wallet? Scanning the boards it always appears there are far more drag racers than road race + auto cross + time trial participants.
 
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418viper,

DC has many choices and Dodge is in much better financial today then approx 12 years when they started working with Skip Barber.

I am collecting letters give to Dodge and Skip Barber. Have been in contact with Skip Barber but want to build a solid case before going to Dodge.

From what I understand DC ended the agreement.
 
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How many voted with their wallet? Scanning the boards it always appears there are far more drag racers than road race + auto cross + time trial participants.

Tom this is not about drag racing or road racing!

Vipers(2003-06) have made great handling and braking improvements over GenII and I's, but the all have massive torque and huge tires. The Viper is subject to physics laws commonly called vehicle dynamics.

Short Story in 1996 my wife told me Vipers were defective and killed people. She was serious. My beloved Viper was now under attack by a local rumor mill. Someone(passenger) had been killed and the driver was seriously injured. A friend of the drivers wife worked for my wife. I never did suspect the Viper has having a problem other than being sold to people who were not experienced with high performance cars. This incident motivated me to take first Skip Barber Driving School in early 1997 before VOI 4. At VOI 4 we went to Sebring to experience a day of Viper performance on a road course. Skip Barber provided drivers and staff to manage this activity. I enjoyed the road course because it provided an opportunity to use of the Vipers performance in a controlled environment.

I was so impressed with the Skip Barber course that I wanted to learn more so nine years later and 25 days of Skip Barber courses plus autocross and open track events I still learning.

This is how I got the nick name Driving School. I encouraged all owners of Vipers to take a Skip Barber driving school. With the goal of safer driving and more enjoyment of the Viper's performance. I tried to get Dodge(worked with Bob Champine ) to include a Driving School with the purchase of the car. Legal issues were blamed for not allowing this to happen. Bob did arrange for me to get the Corporate discount with Skip Barber. I worked with Skip Barber(Skip was the owner at that time) and Bob Champine and also E when Bob departed. With the help of E and Maurice and Skip a Viper Club Discount program became official and remained in place UNTIL NOW. It was 25% for the Two Day School and 10% for all other courses including lapping days.

Our region has offered a one day school Skip Barber school with a course specifically for the Viper. It was deeply discounted and maximized Viper Seat time. The last several years were able to drive our cars on the autocross at the end of the day. This gave the drivers a chance to compare how their cars will respond in a performance exercise.

Anyone who drives a Viper or any Performance vehicle should take a Performance Driving. These schools are fun and improve the Viper driving experience and driver safety. And for track drivers, performance driving school is the best modification to reduce your lap times on a road course.

This is a huge loss to the VCA and Viper owners in general.
 

96GTS

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We live in a world where a car can never have too much horsepower, but unfortunatly a person can. Driving schools are imperative to getting the most out of your car, and you learn techiniques that could save your life. It's irresponsible to toss the keys to someone to a street legal race car with no prior training. Wasn't there an Enzo destroyed not too long ago with only 9 miles on the odometer? A Viper is no different in the wrong hands, and the person that decided to include a free SRT Track Experience with the purchase of a new Viper is doing a huge service to future owners.
 

DavidSB

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I just read a Lotus ad that features a performance training track day included with the purchase of a new Elise. Good idea and good marketing.
 

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<<------ NOT suprised by DC's decision. its a shame but DC is losing everything slowly.
 

Warfang

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Fred- Was there last week, and the battle is already lost. The instructors have already tailored their jokes to Porsches. :rolleyes:

The funniest thing was during the autocross, they insisted on pulling out a boxster to join the Viper, instead of the usual 2 Viper deal. They forced everyone to take turns driving one, then the other. When the time came for the students to ride with the instructors... NO ONE WANTED TO GET INTO THE BOXSTER. :D

A couple people begrudgingly went in, but afterwards, they got the hint and tucked the boxster away with it's tail tucked between its legs. I'm actually a bit upset that I was forced to drive such a pu$$y car. My ****** runs better than the boxster. The class was sold to me as a Viper event, not Porsche... I want a partial refund, dammit!

I think the VCA should just retain skip barber instructors and facility while providing their own Vipers 2-3 times a year as a for-profit event for the club. All the braking and skidpad stuff can be done on mazdas for all I care.
 
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Fred- Was there last week, and the battle is already lost. The instructors have already tailored their jokes to Porsches. :rolleyes:

The funniest thing was during the autocross, they insisted on pulling out a boxster to join the Viper, instead of the usual 2 Viper deal. They forced everyone to take turns driving one, then the other. When the time came for the students to ride with the instructors... NO ONE WANTED TO GET INTO THE BOXSTER. :D

A couple people begrudgingly went in, but afterwards, they got the hint and tucked the boxster away with it's tail tucked between its legs. I'm actually a bit upset that I was forced to drive such a pu$$y car. My ****** runs better than the boxster. The class was sold to me as a Viper event, not Porsche... I want a partial refund, dammit!

I think the VCA should just retain skip barber instructors and facility while providing their own Vipers 2-3 times a year as a for-profit event for the club. All the braking and skidpad stuff can be done on mazdas for all I care.

We have lost the first round(blind sided) but we are just getting ready to begin the fight! :buttkick:
 

GTS Bruce

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Like I said before.Going to barber to auto-x a viper,drive a pu truck or econobox is a waste of time and money.Want to improve your driving skills in a front engine gt then go to panoz.Want to learn dragracing,circle track,single seater oval or road then choose the appropriate school.Front engine gt then go to panoz.Why waste your time and money driving a pu truck,econobox and only getting a viper for a couple of auto-x runs? GTS Bruce
 

Warfang

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Like I said before.Going to barber to auto-x a viper,drive a pu truck or econobox is a waste of time and money.Want to improve your driving skills in a front engine gt then go to panoz.Want to learn dragracing,circle track,single seater oval or road then choose the appropriate school.Front engine gt then go to panoz.Why waste your time and money driving a pu truck,econobox and only getting a viper for a couple of auto-x runs? GTS Bruce

We're not all studs like you. ;)

The Viper runs at Skip Barber in their DRIVING class is for fun, a little exhileration, bait to draw in the enthusiasts and switch to the sales pitch on their RACING classes, where they don't just tool around in econoboxes, but open wheel racers. Some folks are just looking for a place to improve their driving overall, and spending a whole day in a panoz around a racetrack is not quite "real world" driving. I wouldn't mind going to panoz myself, but there is a niche for Skip's basic driving course, and it's worth every penny... although without the Vipers, it's only worth half the $900 they're charging for it now.
 
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Like I said before.Going to barber to auto-x a viper,drive a pu truck or econobox is a waste of time and money.Want to improve your driving skills in a front engine gt then go to panoz.Want to learn dragracing,circle track,single seater oval or road then choose the appropriate school.Front engine gt then go to panoz.Why waste your time and money driving a pu truck,econobox and only getting a viper for a couple of auto-x runs? GTS Bruce


Bruce thanks for your opinion, it is duly noted!

There is no shortage of performance driving schools. And I would expect Panoz to offer a very good program otherwise Bob Woodhouse would not organize his annual racing Panoz Racing Trip. But the Panoz GT is not a Viper. :nono: Given the choice I want to practice my skills in the car I drive. And in our VCA specific driving schools the Vipers are on the course 3/4 of the day not a few laps. :nana:
 
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If you want to write letters regarding the loss of Vipers at Skip Barber and the loss of the VCA discount at Skip Barber send them to [email protected].

The reality is that Dodge has been upstaged by Mazda and this is not likely to change quickly. But the other reality is that Skip Barber performance driving image will be much less without the Viper. There are presently NO driving schools with the Viper as a learning platform. That is a great loss to the VCA and all Viper owners. Everyone has lost something form the Dodge-Skip Barber failure.
 

KWIK96

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Wasn't there an Enzo destroyed not too long ago with only 9 miles on the odometer?


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Impossible. Enzos have traction control. It is impossible to wreck a car with traction control.


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Enzos also have ABS, which you are catagorically opposed to as well...

DrDJ


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Good point. And yet they still manage to crash them. Amazing.

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If only he had ESP
 

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