DIY Supercharger - Sean Roe, Doug Levin, Heffner???

[onerareviper]

Hello Tuners,

Can one of you guys, or any informed person, provide the Viper nation with more details on a DIY (Do It Yourself) supercharger? From what I've gathered, Sean is coming out with a Twin-Screw (sweet!) type blower for under $7K. I have also heard about a centrifuge type that Doug Levin sells (not sure of price). How about you Heffner? Any DIY supercharger package in the making? Many of us Viperholics can't afford 15-30K, but $7K is do-able!!!

New Years Resolution - More Power!!!

 

[blkasp1]

I recently visited Doug Levin's shop. He has both a twin screw and centrifugal supercharger kit they are building for DIY customers. Doug would have to tell you more about the pricing and details. I can only remember a few things. One is that they're pricing the twin screw less than the centrifugal but the centrifugal will make more power. I was one of the first to see the twin screw system. It has a lot of chrome and looks fantastic. It does not retain the factory intake. Doug said it won't make as much top-end power as the centrifugal but it will make more low-end power. He's also dealing with R&D and patent issues as part of the waiting process. I don't know how long or how much?

RR

 

[Sean Roe]

I can't divulge too much information yet, but can confirm that what we're working on is a complete kit that can be installed in a day by a do-it-yourself-er or a good shop. Our GTS is still undergoing work and should be off to the company doing the engine management side in the next week or two.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Sean Roe on 01-02-2002 at 05:44 PM</font>

 

[Jason Heffner]

I am currently working on a DIY kiy for gen 2s using a centrifugal supercharger. I still have some things to finish up with instructions and making sure that I have an exact list of nuts, bolts, etc. so that there will not be any issues with parts shortages. This will be a basic kit designed for mostly stock cars and should add about 120 RWHP. It will definitely fall into your price range. If you need more info call me at 410-766-2800 or send an e mail.

 

[MES]

Well it's about time someone makes a DIY kit for the Viper!! I also am willing pay $7K for a DIY kit.

A Twin-screw supercharger will look awesome sitting on top of that big V-10

But I think the choice of a twin-screw or centrifugal will come down to the amount of HP gained verses the boost level (parasitic loss) of the supercharger. So an intercooled centrifugal supercharger would seem to win in that case.

 

[Jason Heffner]

It would have been possible a long time ago but the availability of electronics that the average guy could tune was was not there. Now that MSD has released a boost sensitive timing conrtol box, anyone can simply dial the knob to remove the appropriate amount of timing. This makes it easier to compensate for different fuel qualities, elevation, etc..

 

[jgfurr]

Please don't forget us Gen-1 guys. PLEEEZE !

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Ok, so let's start the debate. If the twin screw makes more low-end and the Viper is a low rpm motor, which blower is gonna win the 1/4???

 

[Joseph Dell]

I won't start the debate here... I'll end it. The Viper has enough trouble launching as-is with the TQ it has. A Centrifugal will win in the quarter mile everytime.

Just my .02...

JD

 

[Joseph Dell]

On the other hand, I love the big-block feel even in a car with massive low-end torque. And since my car is 99% street (even though I want 600rwhp) I'd still take a 6lb or 9lb eaton if it were available.

Then again, I don't like to limit myself right out of the gates [and I always want more power] so the centrifugal works nicely for me so that I can pump that 9lb up to 12lb on pump gas w/o killing the motor.

Can you tell that I have blown up a couple of mustang motors? Those were much cheaper to repair...

JD

 

[Joseph Dell]

Ok, Ok... It isn't that limiting. And please don't think that my DLM Level I kit is limiting. It most definitely is not. But with an Eaton, what more is there to do? Pull the heads and watch the boost go back down to 6lbs? It is SOOOOO frustrating to have a strong motor with a wimpy amount of boost when you know you can always run more and more and more until POP! Motor goes.

Details.

At least you don't have to worry about overheating a NOVI 2000 head unit. I have overdrive an eaton before... it wasn't pretty. Nor was the smell. But it _was_ a blast! Then again, so was NOS on a Toyota Tercel hatchback _once_. I'll never do that again.

Oops. I hope I didn't just get this topic moved to OFF-TOPIC!

JD

 

[onerareviper]

Viperholics,

I ran across this article about twin-screw type blower. Of course, it is biased (Whipple Supercharger/Twin Screw), but does bring up good points of view. The questions I'd like answered are: 1.) Better unit for 1/4 mile and top speed (price of unit counts) 2.) Better unit for street driving/daily driving 3.) Better unit on a road course? 4.) Biggest SOTP (Seat of the pants) feel?

-----------------------------------------------

 

[RECOIL]

Isn't someone working on a Whipple kit?

Steve

 

[onerareviper]

Whipple = Twin Screw. Read previous post for info. on people working on Twin Screw type blowers.

 

[Greg D]

I hope everyone working on a DIY kit expedites matters before I get too impatient and purchase a nitrous/propane kit instead!

 

[RECOIL]

No joke. I'm seriously thinking about NOT selling my car now.

This board needs to retain all posters named "Steve".

Steve

 

[MES]

The first one to market is going to make the big $$$ (pent up demand) even if it isn't the best or cheapest. Some of these have been in the works for over a year, they seem to be dragging their feet a bit don't you think? I've been waiting for over 6 months for Paxton to come out with a kit (they have been working on one since the summer) I finally gave up and got the nitrous/propane kit instead.

What kind of supercharger is on the Ford Lightning? A twin-screw? I have never seen a OEM centrifugal supercharger, wonder why?

So to create some gosip, we have possibly a DIY supercharger kit from:

Roe - Twin-screw maybe a whipple
Heffner - vortech centrifugal
DLM - Paxon centrifugal and maybe a twin screw
Dan Cragin - twin centrifugal
Paxton - Claim to be developing one

It should get real interesting next year if all of them become available.

 

[varanus]

I'm waiting too. At this point my next step is getting into the heads, but have a hard time justifying the hi cost ($5,000) to get 50 hp. But if a DIY supercharger came out with a well known tuner backing it up for $7,000, I'd be on it. I was really excited that Sean Roe announced this price range a short while ago, but like everyone else, I'm anxiously awaiting the real release date.

 

[Sean Roe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sheyster:
Sean,

Was it Vortech or Paxton?

Can you give any info on the tuning side of things? Bigger injectors, piggyback ECU, how much boost, fuel pump, timing retard, etc?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not Vortech or Paxton, but another "new" unit by a big company and a smaller (but not small) development company. So, how many centrifugal units available and coming out for the Viper does that make now? (don't forget Golden West)

Regarding power gain and tuning, very talented people working on those areas. Not going for the highest boost / power. Look at the custom systems if that's your goal. Our goals are geared toward an appropriate power gain, properly configured / tuned engine management system and reliability. We're going in the direction we feel is right for our goals.

 

[Sean Roe]

Though I can't get too specific publicly yet (This is not just my business, there are two other larger companies involved), I don't want too see any misinformation.

Supercharger brand: Opcon Autorotor (there are several reasons we are going with them, the best reputation in the industry is one of them).

Complete "ready to bolt on" system should be under $7,000.


Design parameters include that it must offer equal to or greater than; original equipment fit, finish and reliability.

P.S. There was another Viper centifugal SC system on display at the SEMA show that MES didn't mention above. Big company.



<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Sean Roe on 07-17-2002 at 05:15 PM</font>

 

[onerareviper]

Great info. on the topic. Without starting a major flame war, I was hoping Sean Roe could respond to this question:

Why did you choose to develop a Twin-screw blower over other types? (Hoping you could elaborate from your previous posts).

Thanks!!!!!!

 

[MaxedGTS]

I remember years ago how people were saying: "Supercharging won't work for Vipers." I know why and for one good reason. When McClure was building SC Vipers they ALL blew up. Including mine. I swore I would NEVER put a blower on my Viper again. Back then nobody could fix my car, It went from shop to shop. I was ready to sell my car and suffer my losses. This was back in '96. I was told about DLM but I wasn't sure about them. I took one more chance and sent my car to Doug. DLM removed the SC system and rebuilt the engine for me. I sent the system back to McClure for a refund but never got a penny back from him. Remember now at this time I was about 30K in the hole. After one of the best experiences dealing with DLM and watching their development of supercharging Vipers I decided supercharging is possible and took one more chance with it. I had DLM supercharge (back then) my '98 and the car was a work of art and FAST. I replaced the car with a 2000 and had Doug supercharge this one too. Soon I will have DLM supercharge my 2003.

Here is my point ---&gt; There are a lot of other respectable tuners in this business and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with a few of them.
Doug Levin Motorsports was the FIRST in the Viper tuning business that started all this Supercharging Frenzy. Experience is more important than cost alone. If you guys think there will be a simple bolt on supercharger package for cheap you need to think again. If it is possible, than give it time to see what the system has to offer.

NO flame intended. Just give it time,
Max

 

[Gerald]

If a DIY system IS implemented I"m sure there will be MANY unhappy custonmers since there are many factors invoved and some probably will want their money back because since it will be DIY and lots of tuning will be needed , lots of the systems will be off 10%, 20%, 50% of the next guys supercharger numbers. Leaving the average wondering why he isn't getting much power as the next guy.. Just a thought..
Spend the extra 4,5k and get the numbers Doug is putting out at NEARLY 620 RWHP (Dan Blacks , Dougs latest venture) WITHOUT HEADERS, WITHOUT ROCKER ARMS, WITHOUT CAT BACK, etc.....With a Level I

Gerald

 

[onerareviper]

Max,

Looking at it on paper, you would think a Viper would be a great canidate for Supercharging. Low compresion engine, not high reving (easy on parts), extremely strong internals (especially Forged piston years), good fuel system, strong tranny/rear end/clutch, etc.... I believe the problem lies in the small amount of Vipers sold, and a small profit margin for the big companies after tooling custom brackets, etc... I'm sure Doug Levin is an incredible tuner/racer/etc..., but I don't think putting a Supercharger on a Viper 'should be' rocket-science. It just seems most people aren't interested due to their 'percieved' lack of profit. What caused your last engine to meltdown? Too much boost, not enough fuel??? What engine parts failed? I guess your right though, time will tell which systems are best..... I have a lot of time to kick it around now, as Pittsburgh is covered in snow.

 

[Matt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean Roe:
Not Vortech or Paxton, but another "new" unit by a big company and a smaller (but not small) development company. So, how many centrifugal units available and coming out for the Viper does that make now? (don't forget Golden West)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I suppose ATI could be coming out with a kit of their own, though I believe that is what Golden West is currently using. Also, there is Powerdyne. Not sure if this is the smaller company in development or not. There really are many manufacturers out there.

-Matt

 

[onerareviper]

Bump requested....

Thanks.

 

[FastMatt]

you meen "POWERCRAP"

 

[MES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
you meen "POWERCRAP"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, I have heard of many problems with them (non-Viper cars)

 

[FastMatt]

there "cheep" but you get what you pay for

 

[MichaelP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MES:
The first one to market is going to make the big $$$ (pent up demand) even if it isn't the best or cheapest. Some of these have been in the works for over a year, they seem to be dragging their feet a bit don't you think? I've been waiting for over 6 months for Paxton to come out with a kit (they have been working on one since the summer) I finally gave up and got the nitrous/propane kit instead.

What kind of supercharger is on the Ford Lightning? A twin-screw? I have never seen a OEM centrifugal supercharger, wonder why?

So to create some gosip, we have possibly a DIY supercharger kit from:

Roe - Twin-screw maybe a whipple
Heffner - vortech centrifugal
DLM - Paxon centrifugal and maybe a twin screw
Dan Cragin - twin centrifugal
Paxton - Claim to be developing one

It should get real interesting next year if all of them become available.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Came across this old thread.

I know Sean has sent out a number of super chargers, I was wondering if any knows if the other tuners listed have had any luck with their DIY super chargers yet.