ZX12
Enthusiast
A great group of guys went out and did some racing today...a nearly 900 rwhp DLM Viper raced a few stock and not-so-stock Busa's (and a ZX12)...it's good reading!
DLM Viper vs stock Busa
DLM Viper vs stock Busa
DLM Viper vs stock Busa!
- Thread starter ZX12
- Start date
WESTCOAST JASON
Enthusiast
That is Manny (Superbar) in the DLM car. Gorgeous car and a great job by DLM. I rode in the car a day or two ago and it pulls nice and strong. As far as the races they did, I would love to have been there, and for the next one, I plan on being there! We can't let the balance of power lean to hard towards any bikes. 
MannyC
Enthusiast
Yep, that was me. 4 bikes and 7 runs later, I met some new friends.
You know it's going to be some tough racing when the SLOWEST bike out there is a stock Hayabusa.
Because we didn't want to race on highways and goofy stuff like that, we all drove out to a controlled location which ended up being about 5 hours round trip for me, but it was worth it. I got to drive my car through some twisty mountain roads and really test the thing out.
I had two cameras mounted in my car, the bike being raced had a camera, there was a bike behind us capturing the race and then there was a camera from a set location at the side of the road taping. Tons of tape and a great video coming in a few days.
Bottom line is I took my DLM car and beat on it for the better part of a day and it came back giving more.
-Manny
You know it's going to be some tough racing when the SLOWEST bike out there is a stock Hayabusa.
Because we didn't want to race on highways and goofy stuff like that, we all drove out to a controlled location which ended up being about 5 hours round trip for me, but it was worth it. I got to drive my car through some twisty mountain roads and really test the thing out.
I had two cameras mounted in my car, the bike being raced had a camera, there was a bike behind us capturing the race and then there was a camera from a set location at the side of the road taping. Tons of tape and a great video coming in a few days.
Bottom line is I took my DLM car and beat on it for the better part of a day and it came back giving more.
-Manny
C5
Enthusiast
Just read that thread, can't wait for the vids!!! Nice showing!!!
InjectTheVenom
Enthusiast
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Can't wait for the vid
ElDiablo Viper
Enthusiast
Hard to belive that stock Busa took 900hp VIPER.
Martin D
Enthusiast
ElDiablo - I felt the same way when I lost to the busa and the gixxer. I still scratch my head wondering how it happened. I was at least 25-0 against bikes until that race. And wouldn't you know it - that race is the one that ends up all over the internet on video.
Manny, there is no shame in those losses. Good runs!
Regards,
Manny, there is no shame in those losses. Good runs!
Regards,
MannyC
Enthusiast
Here is a mostly copy and paste from the Busa forums. For those of you not into motorcycles, the Suzuki Hayabusa is a 1300cc bike and has been the world's fastest stock production bike for many years now. Out of the showroom and with the right driver, it breaks 9's at the track.
-----
OK guys, I am back from nearly a 6 hour round trip event. I don't want to spoil the video which I am hoping will be ready in the next day or so, but so many people are asking, that I thought I would give the details. BTW, I gave both of my camara tapes to Nick Slick to edit into one big movie which he said should be done by Monday.
We met up at about 10am, talked about the bikes and the car, took some photos, did the intro to the video, etc. Everybody I met was awesome! For all the smack talk that goes on here, when you meet in person, everything changes.
A few facts about me and my car:
I just got the car this week, and had only driven it 3 times ever (due to a busy work schedule this past week.) I had NEVER EVER ran the car wide open throttle through all the gears. I had opened it up through 2nd and 3rd gear the day I got the car, and on the way up to meet the guys (yesterday), I punched it in 4th on the freeway and then let off before a cop heard my car 7 miles away.
Up until this week, I have never driven a Gen II Viper before, let alone a super charged one. When I bought my GEN I viper, REDSLED gave me a ride in his and I sat in GETBIT's car while it was parked -- that is my Gen II experience. Saying I am wet behind the ears would be an understatement. This is quite a different beast from my Gen I (just ask Moundir who got a chance to drive my Gen I.) Everything in the car seems to be reversed. The guages are not in the same locations, handling is different, the braking is different, the clutch feel is WAY different, and the shifter I had in the car was small and totally different from what I was used to (missed a shift when I took Jason from West Coast Viper out in it -- again, only WOT in 2nd and 3rd gear.) I was praying I wouldn't miss any shifts during our runs later on in the day.
My car felt like it had really soft suspension and I would have liked to have tightened it up a bit, but this race was set up so fast that I didn't have time to do anything to the car. The suspension (which was installed the day before the car was shipped to me) had settled in the rear and the front of the car was 2 inches higher than the rear. This would be OK normally except that the car has a front splitter that was now pointing slightly upward, and I was concerned the splitter might give me lift instead of down force. That proved to not be an issue, at least not at the speeds we were going at.
The car had a few things that made it disadvantageous for straight line racing. One, it has a huge wing (as you have seen fromt he photos) and two, it has a huge front splitter for down force on the front. These are designed to keep the car planted on a road course track, and you would rarely see a car with these things on the 1/4 mile, as it would probably knock many seconds off their MPH. In fact, one of the riders (Danno) commented to me about how the wind coming from the front of my car was actually pushing him on his bike. In the future, I would remove the wing and the front splitter before a race of this kind. Even so, I was hoping to have enough horse power to overcome the drag from the wing and especially the front splitter -- time would tell.
My car dyno'd at 883 RWHP in Florida without Cats. When I dyno'd it here in California with cats, the dyno/car combo was not working right and after 6 pulls, a reading of 863 RWHP came up, and I left it at that. I didn't tell the guys as I wanted to try to surprise them, but damn it, Danno kept asking over and over. "What does Annihilator 1000 mean? 1000? Is that HP? Dyno wasn't working -- well what did it Dyno at in Florida? Didn't your tuner dyno it? " Somehow I blew off his questions as others were asking me questions as well and I would just answer them.
So anyway, back to the adventure -- the bikes proceed to lead me to our destination via a twisty mountain trail through the wrightwood area. Was cool to see snow still on the sides of the road. Surprisingly, the car handled well. It was a lot bouncier than I liked, but it was a pleasant twisty drive to our destination.
About 20 mins later, we stopped to fuel up, had a few gawkers, and then we proceeded a few more miles to our location. We had what I believe was about 3 miles of perfectly straigh road. We pulled over to the side, set up the safety bikes, mounted all our camera gear, etc. The weather was OK for racing, probably in the high 70's when we started, and dipping into the 80's near the last few races.
The original idea of all of this would be to see if a supercharged Viper could hang with a stock Busa while being ridden by a good rider. Up until this point, there had always been doubt as to whether any of the race videos by others were sand bagged, staged, etc. No supercharged viper had beaten a stock busa without contention by the Busa forums, so this was going to be a race between a viper forum guy and some busa forum guys to see what happens. All the MIT graduates on here threw out formulas here and there saying it would take at least 850 RWHP to beat a stock busa. My car came in BARELY over that, so it was going to be on. We were in the high desert about half a mile up, so not sure how that affects a forced induction vehicle compared to how it affects a naturally aspirated one. You guys can chime in on that if you want.
The rule was to run until somewhere between 160 and 170 at which point we would shut it down. These would be roll on races to avoid wheelies from the bikes and tire spinning by the car.
My first race would be against the only stock busa there (Danno). From what I was told, the bike was a nitrous Busa which had the bottle pulled. As far as I know, everything else was put back to stock. I didn't have any reason to doubt this, so no questions were asked. I raced the stock Busa three times. The first time was from a 45 MPH roll. The Busa pulled freaking hard at that speed and pulled slightly ahead. At somewhere around 130+ MPH or so, I think, at the top of 4th gear, I started pulling the bike back in. Shifting into 5th I pulled the busa in and passed him, and this was of course caught by my rear facing camera at which point we shut down as he was going 165 MPH and I was somewhere around 170 MPH.
We did a 2nd race with similar results.
Third race, one of the other riders (200+ pounds)got in my car and would use the rear camera to video the race. This one was a great race as it was from 80 MPH and the whole way to about 165 MPH the bike was at my door. We could have reached out the window and knocked on his helmet for a few seconds. We have great footage of this.
By this time, my car was pretty hot, and the temps out in Palmdale were getting warmer. My car was running every race, so I was getting heat soaked and I would have to imagine that my car got slower as the day went on, even though I believe my shifts were getting better throughout the day (faster.) No fans or anything out there like you would have at a 1.4 mile strip, AND we were taking it way beyond your typical 1/4 mile speeds. I could only pop the hood and let it cool off for a few mins, run it in 6th gear for about a mile or so and then stage up and get ready for the next race. The car NEVER got critically hot. I don't think it every reached the 225 temp range, and if it did, the drive back (after stopping) in 6th gear usually cooled it back down into the low 200's.
The 4th and 5th race were against Gar. His Busa was slightly modded (he can tell you what he did to it.) I know very little about Bikes, so when they start saying they have a Mapped this, and PCM here and sprockets and blah blah blah, I don't know what the hell is being talked about. Gerald would know more about this. I wasn't planning on racing a Busa with ANY modifications, as that was not what this was about. I wanted to race a bike that was out of the showroom stock. But what the hell, it was another Busa that was much less modified than the others, and he made the long trip as well. So we did a 40 MPH roll and then another one around 70 or so. Both times he would pull in front, and then at the top of 4th I *THINK* he stopped pulling me and he stayed at the same distance all the way through my 5th gear and our shut down -- his bike was fast and he dominated! I'll have to watch the video to see if my recollection on that is accurate.
The 6th race was against Nick Slick. It wasn't really a race since he was running his Nitrous Busa, but if I didn't race him, he was going to kick my ass, attack me or do something equally as bad, so I did, just for kicks. As expected, he ***** my car. I would probably need 1,500 HP to keep up.
By this time, my car was done. The front STOCK brakes were cooked from the 6 times I had to stop from no less than 165 MPH each time. I wanted to stop, but the Busa guys would not let me, not until I raced the Tubo ZX12 owned by Kerry. He wanted it for his video archive I suppose. Kerry is such a nice guy that I had to run him. For fun, he would start WAY behind me and then blast by me. Sure enough that is what he did. Wasn't even funny. Then again, his bike was MADE of carbon fiber and had a bored out stroker motor displacing nearly 1400 CC's -- KARAZY FAAAAST! I think at about 180 MPH I started reeling him in. HA! Ok, not really. I shut it down at about 180 MPH as that was enough for me and he was still pulling away.
My car was done at that point. I had taken a newly shipped car that I received 5 days ago, broken it in with just 100 EASY EASY miles, and then ***** the [******] out of it over 6 races against some of the best riders with some of the fastest bikes I have ever seen. My car didn't skip a beat and I have to compliment Doug Levin who put this car together for me. Hell, I had tons of [******] in my car too (about 75 pounds of gear in the back that was shipped with my car that I hadn't taken out yet, like some exhaust pipes, windshield wiper fluid, 5 point harnesses assemblies, etc.
We grabbed some late lunch/early dinner, watched some of the video, and then we all headed our own way.
Awesome time. I think I proved my car can hang with a stock Busa and start to reel them in once 130 MPH+ speeds are achieved. I guess another race will be in order because Danno's bike was supposed to be stock, but I was told his mapping was for Nitrous so he was running rich. Gar's bike pulled me, but his was not 100% stock. So damn it guys, we need a 100% stock bike - Ha!
And just so all know, I could have postponed this another week and removed the front splitter and wing, pulled the filter and done a few things to the car to get another 70+ HP and reduce my drag (which I think hurt me the most)-- but that wasn't what this was about. It was about whether my car, the way I drive it on the street, in the trip it is in now, would be able to do what it did.
One last thing -- it should be noted that my car was tuned in Florida where they have 93 octane gas. I had to mix some 101 octane in with my 91 octane to get that 93 octane rating, and I have a 54 gallon drum of the stuff at home (I will now throw 3 gallons in every time I fill up my tank if I am anticpating any races)
Win or lose, I feel confident in knowing that I would more than likely annihilate the average busa rider on the freeway, or any other bike for that matter. These guys I raced today were awesome riders and awesome guys in general.
There ya have it -- my side of the story. Video will be out soon and you can all see for yourself. I had a blast and would love to do it again. Give me some time to learn how to drive this thing and we'll have PART TWO soon. I learned where the car pulls hardest in these races, so I went in blind and still did pretty well I thought. I have to admit those bikes were faster than I thought they were, as I was comparing them to my CBR 929 which I know my car would eat up.
-Manny
-----
OK guys, I am back from nearly a 6 hour round trip event. I don't want to spoil the video which I am hoping will be ready in the next day or so, but so many people are asking, that I thought I would give the details. BTW, I gave both of my camara tapes to Nick Slick to edit into one big movie which he said should be done by Monday.
We met up at about 10am, talked about the bikes and the car, took some photos, did the intro to the video, etc. Everybody I met was awesome! For all the smack talk that goes on here, when you meet in person, everything changes.
A few facts about me and my car:
I just got the car this week, and had only driven it 3 times ever (due to a busy work schedule this past week.) I had NEVER EVER ran the car wide open throttle through all the gears. I had opened it up through 2nd and 3rd gear the day I got the car, and on the way up to meet the guys (yesterday), I punched it in 4th on the freeway and then let off before a cop heard my car 7 miles away.
Up until this week, I have never driven a Gen II Viper before, let alone a super charged one. When I bought my GEN I viper, REDSLED gave me a ride in his and I sat in GETBIT's car while it was parked -- that is my Gen II experience. Saying I am wet behind the ears would be an understatement. This is quite a different beast from my Gen I (just ask Moundir who got a chance to drive my Gen I.) Everything in the car seems to be reversed. The guages are not in the same locations, handling is different, the braking is different, the clutch feel is WAY different, and the shifter I had in the car was small and totally different from what I was used to (missed a shift when I took Jason from West Coast Viper out in it -- again, only WOT in 2nd and 3rd gear.) I was praying I wouldn't miss any shifts during our runs later on in the day.
My car felt like it had really soft suspension and I would have liked to have tightened it up a bit, but this race was set up so fast that I didn't have time to do anything to the car. The suspension (which was installed the day before the car was shipped to me) had settled in the rear and the front of the car was 2 inches higher than the rear. This would be OK normally except that the car has a front splitter that was now pointing slightly upward, and I was concerned the splitter might give me lift instead of down force. That proved to not be an issue, at least not at the speeds we were going at.
The car had a few things that made it disadvantageous for straight line racing. One, it has a huge wing (as you have seen fromt he photos) and two, it has a huge front splitter for down force on the front. These are designed to keep the car planted on a road course track, and you would rarely see a car with these things on the 1/4 mile, as it would probably knock many seconds off their MPH. In fact, one of the riders (Danno) commented to me about how the wind coming from the front of my car was actually pushing him on his bike. In the future, I would remove the wing and the front splitter before a race of this kind. Even so, I was hoping to have enough horse power to overcome the drag from the wing and especially the front splitter -- time would tell.
My car dyno'd at 883 RWHP in Florida without Cats. When I dyno'd it here in California with cats, the dyno/car combo was not working right and after 6 pulls, a reading of 863 RWHP came up, and I left it at that. I didn't tell the guys as I wanted to try to surprise them, but damn it, Danno kept asking over and over. "What does Annihilator 1000 mean? 1000? Is that HP? Dyno wasn't working -- well what did it Dyno at in Florida? Didn't your tuner dyno it? " Somehow I blew off his questions as others were asking me questions as well and I would just answer them.
So anyway, back to the adventure -- the bikes proceed to lead me to our destination via a twisty mountain trail through the wrightwood area. Was cool to see snow still on the sides of the road. Surprisingly, the car handled well. It was a lot bouncier than I liked, but it was a pleasant twisty drive to our destination.
About 20 mins later, we stopped to fuel up, had a few gawkers, and then we proceeded a few more miles to our location. We had what I believe was about 3 miles of perfectly straigh road. We pulled over to the side, set up the safety bikes, mounted all our camera gear, etc. The weather was OK for racing, probably in the high 70's when we started, and dipping into the 80's near the last few races.
The original idea of all of this would be to see if a supercharged Viper could hang with a stock Busa while being ridden by a good rider. Up until this point, there had always been doubt as to whether any of the race videos by others were sand bagged, staged, etc. No supercharged viper had beaten a stock busa without contention by the Busa forums, so this was going to be a race between a viper forum guy and some busa forum guys to see what happens. All the MIT graduates on here threw out formulas here and there saying it would take at least 850 RWHP to beat a stock busa. My car came in BARELY over that, so it was going to be on. We were in the high desert about half a mile up, so not sure how that affects a forced induction vehicle compared to how it affects a naturally aspirated one. You guys can chime in on that if you want.
The rule was to run until somewhere between 160 and 170 at which point we would shut it down. These would be roll on races to avoid wheelies from the bikes and tire spinning by the car.
My first race would be against the only stock busa there (Danno). From what I was told, the bike was a nitrous Busa which had the bottle pulled. As far as I know, everything else was put back to stock. I didn't have any reason to doubt this, so no questions were asked. I raced the stock Busa three times. The first time was from a 45 MPH roll. The Busa pulled freaking hard at that speed and pulled slightly ahead. At somewhere around 130+ MPH or so, I think, at the top of 4th gear, I started pulling the bike back in. Shifting into 5th I pulled the busa in and passed him, and this was of course caught by my rear facing camera at which point we shut down as he was going 165 MPH and I was somewhere around 170 MPH.
We did a 2nd race with similar results.
Third race, one of the other riders (200+ pounds)got in my car and would use the rear camera to video the race. This one was a great race as it was from 80 MPH and the whole way to about 165 MPH the bike was at my door. We could have reached out the window and knocked on his helmet for a few seconds. We have great footage of this.
By this time, my car was pretty hot, and the temps out in Palmdale were getting warmer. My car was running every race, so I was getting heat soaked and I would have to imagine that my car got slower as the day went on, even though I believe my shifts were getting better throughout the day (faster.) No fans or anything out there like you would have at a 1.4 mile strip, AND we were taking it way beyond your typical 1/4 mile speeds. I could only pop the hood and let it cool off for a few mins, run it in 6th gear for about a mile or so and then stage up and get ready for the next race. The car NEVER got critically hot. I don't think it every reached the 225 temp range, and if it did, the drive back (after stopping) in 6th gear usually cooled it back down into the low 200's.
The 4th and 5th race were against Gar. His Busa was slightly modded (he can tell you what he did to it.) I know very little about Bikes, so when they start saying they have a Mapped this, and PCM here and sprockets and blah blah blah, I don't know what the hell is being talked about. Gerald would know more about this. I wasn't planning on racing a Busa with ANY modifications, as that was not what this was about. I wanted to race a bike that was out of the showroom stock. But what the hell, it was another Busa that was much less modified than the others, and he made the long trip as well. So we did a 40 MPH roll and then another one around 70 or so. Both times he would pull in front, and then at the top of 4th I *THINK* he stopped pulling me and he stayed at the same distance all the way through my 5th gear and our shut down -- his bike was fast and he dominated! I'll have to watch the video to see if my recollection on that is accurate.
The 6th race was against Nick Slick. It wasn't really a race since he was running his Nitrous Busa, but if I didn't race him, he was going to kick my ass, attack me or do something equally as bad, so I did, just for kicks. As expected, he ***** my car. I would probably need 1,500 HP to keep up.
By this time, my car was done. The front STOCK brakes were cooked from the 6 times I had to stop from no less than 165 MPH each time. I wanted to stop, but the Busa guys would not let me, not until I raced the Tubo ZX12 owned by Kerry. He wanted it for his video archive I suppose. Kerry is such a nice guy that I had to run him. For fun, he would start WAY behind me and then blast by me. Sure enough that is what he did. Wasn't even funny. Then again, his bike was MADE of carbon fiber and had a bored out stroker motor displacing nearly 1400 CC's -- KARAZY FAAAAST! I think at about 180 MPH I started reeling him in. HA! Ok, not really. I shut it down at about 180 MPH as that was enough for me and he was still pulling away.
My car was done at that point. I had taken a newly shipped car that I received 5 days ago, broken it in with just 100 EASY EASY miles, and then ***** the [******] out of it over 6 races against some of the best riders with some of the fastest bikes I have ever seen. My car didn't skip a beat and I have to compliment Doug Levin who put this car together for me. Hell, I had tons of [******] in my car too (about 75 pounds of gear in the back that was shipped with my car that I hadn't taken out yet, like some exhaust pipes, windshield wiper fluid, 5 point harnesses assemblies, etc.
We grabbed some late lunch/early dinner, watched some of the video, and then we all headed our own way.
Awesome time. I think I proved my car can hang with a stock Busa and start to reel them in once 130 MPH+ speeds are achieved. I guess another race will be in order because Danno's bike was supposed to be stock, but I was told his mapping was for Nitrous so he was running rich. Gar's bike pulled me, but his was not 100% stock. So damn it guys, we need a 100% stock bike - Ha!
And just so all know, I could have postponed this another week and removed the front splitter and wing, pulled the filter and done a few things to the car to get another 70+ HP and reduce my drag (which I think hurt me the most)-- but that wasn't what this was about. It was about whether my car, the way I drive it on the street, in the trip it is in now, would be able to do what it did.
One last thing -- it should be noted that my car was tuned in Florida where they have 93 octane gas. I had to mix some 101 octane in with my 91 octane to get that 93 octane rating, and I have a 54 gallon drum of the stuff at home (I will now throw 3 gallons in every time I fill up my tank if I am anticpating any races)
Win or lose, I feel confident in knowing that I would more than likely annihilate the average busa rider on the freeway, or any other bike for that matter. These guys I raced today were awesome riders and awesome guys in general.
There ya have it -- my side of the story. Video will be out soon and you can all see for yourself. I had a blast and would love to do it again. Give me some time to learn how to drive this thing and we'll have PART TWO soon. I learned where the car pulls hardest in these races, so I went in blind and still did pretty well I thought. I have to admit those bikes were faster than I thought they were, as I was comparing them to my CBR 929 which I know my car would eat up.
-Manny
MannyC
Enthusiast
I didn't lose. I went out to race a stock Busa and beat it 2 times in a row. The 3rd time I had a 200+ pound person in the car with me video taping, and it was a dead even race all the way up until we shut it down. Seriously, my passenger could have rached out and touched the bike for a few seconds.
I accomplished what I went out there to do, which was to see if my bike could hang with a Busa.
The other bikes were just for fun races -- I knew I would lose as they were heavily modified. There was only one other Busa there that was only slightly modified, but then again, on paper, I didn't think I could beat a modded Busa, and sure enough that is the case.
Also, after 3 back to back runs, I would imagine my car's power would be coming down due to heat, plus the temperature outside was going up. I would love to run again with these guys (and maybe others) without my front splitter -- I think it might be more of a race for the Busa's that are slightly modded.
-Manny
Gerald
Enthusiast
what thread are you guys reading? Manny didn't loose. He lost to the bikes that were MODDED. The stock Hayabusa he beat. read again.. Plus also note the guy was probably one of the best riders around. Not just some average rider as Manny would have pulled MUCH harder any other rider IMO....
G
Plus also note the guy was probably one of the best riders around. Not just some average rider as Manny would have pulled MUCH harder any other rider IMO....G
Chuck B 98 GTS
Enthusiast
Manny, what a story to read about 
I showed my son the article. I really wonder if the results would have been better in your favor if you had a stock bodied Viper. Your Viper is tough and sweet but you have to wonder how less efficient your car is at speed with the weight of body panels and spoilers.
Low end I don't think it would make much of a difference but at higher speeds it does shave off speed performance.
Those Busa guys were great sports. Can't wait to see the vid's
Cheers,
Chuck
I showed my son the article. I really wonder if the results would have been better in your favor if you had a stock bodied Viper. Your Viper is tough and sweet but you have to wonder how less efficient your car is at speed with the weight of body panels and spoilers.Low end I don't think it would make much of a difference but at higher speeds it does shave off speed performance.
Those Busa guys were great sports. Can't wait to see the vid's
Cheers,
Chuck
MannyC
Enthusiast
Thanks Chuck. Do you know of any stats or figures that show what these front splitters due in terms of high speed runs?
Jason (West Coast Viper) you are a brain when it comes to this stuff and you put these on some of your cars -- what do you say?
At 180 MPH, I could feel all that wind and down force -- a much different feeling that the sleekness I had with the Vette when I had it up around that speed.
Funny thing is that from the rolls early on, the bikes would get me and then I would pull them in at the higher speeds, which is total opposite of what you would think with a front splitter.
-Manny
Jason (West Coast Viper) you are a brain when it comes to this stuff and you put these on some of your cars -- what do you say?
At 180 MPH, I could feel all that wind and down force -- a much different feeling that the sleekness I had with the Vette when I had it up around that speed.
Funny thing is that from the rolls early on, the bikes would get me and then I would pull them in at the higher speeds, which is total opposite of what you would think with a front splitter.
-Manny
DarcShadow
Viper Owner
Great story. I'd be interested to see how every thing would work out from a dead stop rather then a rolling start though. Guess that would make the race a little more about driver/rider rather then machine though.
MannyC
Enthusiast
From a dead stop I would have been owned. Pro rider vs newbie driver. I haven't even had the car one week.
Hirohawa
Enthusiast
Where is this stretch of highway? I want to go there!
WESTCOAST JASON
Enthusiast
The front splitter creates an exceptional amount of downforce. Based on the angle it can create hundreds of pounds of additional downforce that would slow the car at high speed.
I see that the thought of starting from a stand still is not desirable. I have a set of mickey thompson's that we can bolt on your car and I would put money on you (specifically your car anyway) beating the stock busa from a dead start 1/4 mile. I owned a 99 blue/slvr GSXR1300 and am an experienced rider. The bike is hard to launch safely and a completley stock busa without even a lowering link is a handfull to 60ft. That being said, your 850+ rwhp with ET's would hook and then move out with the best of them. (hint: BRING THAT CAR TO VEGAS for the Nats!)
I see that the thought of starting from a stand still is not desirable. I have a set of mickey thompson's that we can bolt on your car and I would put money on you (specifically your car anyway) beating the stock busa from a dead start 1/4 mile. I owned a 99 blue/slvr GSXR1300 and am an experienced rider. The bike is hard to launch safely and a completley stock busa without even a lowering link is a handfull to 60ft. That being said, your 850+ rwhp with ET's would hook and then move out with the best of them. (hint: BRING THAT CAR TO VEGAS for the Nats!)
MannyC
Enthusiast
Palmdale. Maybe we can get another get together down there and have some other high HP cars go and give some of the bikes a run for their money. I was the only car there, so it was akin to having a track team with just one runner, and he has to compete in every event against fresh new runners. My car was taking a beating.
-Manny
I was on the slightly modded 'Busa. My bike is a '99 with 45,000+ miles, I have never even checked the valve clearances. It is modded with an Akropovic exhaust, BMC air filter, and small airbox mod. Stock gearing. When I had the Power Commander on it, it dynoed at 168hp. The Power Commander took a dump on me and I removed it a year or two ago, so it is likely in the ballpark of 162-165 hp now. I weigh an honest 280+ fully suited up. I'm a terrible drag racer and my best 1/4 on the bike is 10.65 at 139. When I ran Manny the first time, from a roll-on of about 50 or so I pulled in front of him early on and held the lead until I was at 165 or so indicated (probably 150-155) and then I backed off, as was the plan. I have no doubt he would have pulled ahead easily at the big end. The second time, we started a bit faster if I remember correctly, and the results were essentially the same, although I held on until maybe 180ish indicated. I think Manny was gaining fast at that point. The video will tell the tale I'm sure. I work on exotic automobiles and have many years experience playing around with all of them. I will tell you now that I have never seen anything run like that Viper. I wasn't sure what to expect the first time he ran Danno's stock bike. I was following as camera-bike and could not believe how it just pulled like a freight train and ran neck and neck with the 'Busa until the shutdown. I think the car got a bit slower as the day wore on, although my bike ran every single run, and seemed just as strong run to run. These events are and always will be apples to oranges. Roll-on, standing start, shutdown at 150, 180, 190, race gas, turbo-boost, nitrous, bike mods, car mods, whatever. . . You're never gonna please everyone or prove everything once and for all time.
The main point is, Manny showed up, we showed up, and we all had a fantastic, safe, fun time. The only thing that was proven is the fact that Manny's Viper is fast as all hell, he's a great sport, and a stock busa will give a highly modded Viper a seriously hard time.
The real truth though, is that none of these events actually took place at all. We have access to fantastic special effects out here in SoCal. Blue screen, digital media editing, photoshop, etc. . .
It's amazing what you can do these days.
The video will be great though.
But it never really happened.
Really.
Gar
The main point is, Manny showed up, we showed up, and we all had a fantastic, safe, fun time. The only thing that was proven is the fact that Manny's Viper is fast as all hell, he's a great sport, and a stock busa will give a highly modded Viper a seriously hard time.
The real truth though, is that none of these events actually took place at all. We have access to fantastic special effects out here in SoCal. Blue screen, digital media editing, photoshop, etc. . .
It's amazing what you can do these days.
The video will be great though.
But it never really happened.
Really.
Gar
This is fun reading. you guys are great sports
Manny, I love your car! I spoke to Doug about it and he said you have still have the cats in it ??? Have you thought about removing them for racing?
Did you race the bikes with the cats in your car? Your car is amazing
-lou
Manny, I love your car! I spoke to Doug about it and he said you have still have the cats in it
??? Have you thought about removing them for racing?Did you race the bikes with the cats in your car? Your car is amazing
-lou
I love the fact we are even comparing a crotch-rocket at 200+ lbs to a Viper at 3300+ lbs. Vipers rule!!! If you want to go like a bat out of hell get a crotch-rocket. If you want to **** around town and have one of the fastest production cars ever made get a Viper!!! Great write up Manny.
SRT 10 2004
Enthusiast
The only guys that go fast in cars are the guys who dont have the talent to do it on a motorcycle....or the ones who broke too many bones on a motorcycle and find the car safer, and find that Vipers "pull a little more wool" than the bikes.
I dont see how teh Viper could match a fast bike with a good rider from a dead stop, being the bike is so light and easy to launch quickly. Either way though, that Viper sounds bad ass. I had a fast mustang, fully moded with blower,etc, and used to race motorcycles all the time, it was always at higher speeds where I could catch them, same with the Z06, havent raced them in my srt-10 yet, but I used to get thumbs up from the motorcycle guys all the times, not easy to get respect from them when they usally smoke every car they race
I dont see how teh Viper could match a fast bike with a good rider from a dead stop, being the bike is so light and easy to launch quickly. Either way though, that Viper sounds bad ass. I had a fast mustang, fully moded with blower,etc, and used to race motorcycles all the time, it was always at higher speeds where I could catch them, same with the Z06, havent raced them in my srt-10 yet, but I used to get thumbs up from the motorcycle guys all the times, not easy to get respect from them when they usally smoke every car they race
Gerald
Enthusiast
168RWHP???? holy crap.. My '03 with full Ti-Force exhaust, Powercommader(mapped), and K & N I dynoed 157rwhp, Corrected! That's another 11HP, on a bike that's A LOT...
MannyC
Enthusiast
This is fun reading. you guys are great sports
Manny, I love your car! I spoke to Doug about it and he said you have still have the cats in it
Did you race the bikes with the cats in your car? Your car is amazing
-lou
Yeah, I raced the car EXACTLY as it was delivered to me. It still had a HEAVY box of the original suspension parts in the trunk, the straight pipes for the exhaust were in the trunk (for when I pull the cats), a big bottle of washer fluid, 5 point harness assemply box, and two side support bars for the roll bar. In all, it was well over 100 pounds in the trunk. I also have a huge wing and front splitter on the car. The down force on my car must have been huge as the body kit is set up for looks, and also for road coursing, not straight line racing. The kit has a fake roof duct, and a few other forward facing flat surfaces that are probably creating a good amount of drag at 165 to 180 MPH. And yes, the cats were in. The ONLY thing I did was that I added 3 gallons of 101 octane octane gas into my tank because we were racing in the desert, it was going to get hot, we were half a mile up in altitude, and I just didn't want to take a chance of any detonation at the very top speeds.
I run what I brung. I think a better race between Gar and I would be for me to pull my air filter and remove the wing and front splitter. With his mods and those things removed from my car, it would have been fun. However, I went out to race a stock Busa, and that is what I did for the 1st three runs (12 different camera angles over those 3 runs.)
-Manny
You gotta love the Akropovic pipe
Mine's a '99 too. Everyone knows they're the fastest
I have another one that is 100lbs lighter than my (relatively) stock 'Busa.
With cams, porting, pipe, PCII, and airbox mod it dynos at just under 178. It also weighs under 450 lbs full of fuel.
I can't afford a car that would impress me, as I get to play around with all the best cars on the planet, so bikes will do just fine for now.
BTW, the Video is up now on www.suzukihayabusa.org if you boys wanna watch.
Gar
MannyC
Enthusiast
By the way guys, in the 1st race, the front inside car camera angle, you can hear a rattle -- At first I [******] my pants because I thought it was detonation. Come to find out as I turned the car around after the race that I had a little screw sitting inside the shifter boot that was vibrating against the shifter. So NO, my car was not detonating and I went on to race 6 more times at even higher speeds. I wanted to point that out since it wasn't cut from the video.
-Manny
-Manny
MannyC
Enthusiast
Guys, I started a new thread. Here's the link to it and the video:
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&PHPSESSID=
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&PHPSESSID=
CMilViper
Enthusiast
NICE VIDEO FELLAS!
Hisserman
Enthusiast
Great runs, Manny --
You got their respect. If they keep crowing about that modded bike tell them you'll meet them again with the Tomahawk!!
You got their respect. If they keep crowing about that modded bike tell them you'll meet them again with the Tomahawk!!
