Dodge better pick up the hp.

[Paul Hawker]

Autoweek just confirmed mrviper99's comments. They reported on a light weight 500hp carbon fiber reinforced Z06 to be produced. Sorry from all us unbelievers. Indeed Dodge needs to consider what will be needed to maintain the king of the hill status.
I look forward to seeing what they release in January in Detroit.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Autoweek just confirmed mrviper99's comments. They reported on a light weight 500hp carbon fiber reinforced Z06 to be produced. Sorry from all us unbelievers. Indeed Dodge needs to consider what will be needed to maintain the king of the hill status.
I look forward to seeing what they release in January in Detroit.

Just give us the carbon concept car. 650 hp, and lighter weight.

Why not at least offer the goodies from the Carbon concept car to retrofit existing Gen III cars?

I'd love to get some factory designed go-fast parts from Dodge. Sell us the heads, valves, cams, throttle bodies, hood, etc. If they sell me the parts, I'll build my own carbon concept if Dodge won't sell me a complete car.

Kai

 

[Lawrenzo]

As long as there is still 1 Viper GTS left on the planet(and it's mine!), the Viper will never die

 

[Guyver1]

I think Dodge should up the hp, but also take some measures to lower the biggest weight sink in the Viper, namely the 600-some odd lb V10 engine.

Carbon Fiber panels are going to be a very small weight savings compared to the stock materials used.

FYI about the Z06...

6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers
• Cross-drilled rotors
• Aluminum engine block with 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in liners
• Forged steel crankshaft with 101.6-mm stroke
• 6-bolt, forged steel main bearing caps
• Titanium connecting rods
• Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
• Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with 70-cc chambers
• 56mm titanium intake valves
• 41mm sodium-filled exhaust valves
• 11.0:1 compression ratio
• Composite manifold with 90 mm single-bore throttle body
• Camshaft with 15-mm (.591-inch) lift
• Dry-sump oiling system
• 7000-rpm redline
WEIGHT: 3130lbs/1420kg

500hp/475lb-ft torque.

I hate to say it, but it looks like the SRT is just going to become a slower, worse-handling, american car than the high-end Corvette.

Still no word on the price, but its pretty much a given that GM will try to undercut DC on this one.

DC has been sitting on its laurels for far too long, and dare I say, if they aren't willing to do anything about it, they deserve to be beaten.

 

[SnakeEye]

I think Dodge should up the hp, but also take some measures to lower the biggest weight sink in the Viper, namely the 600-some odd lb V10 engine.

Carbon Fiber panels are going to be a very small weight savings compared to the stock materials used.

FYI about the Z06...

6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers
• Cross-drilled rotors
• Aluminum engine block with 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in liners
• Forged steel crankshaft with 101.6-mm stroke
• 6-bolt, forged steel main bearing caps
• Titanium connecting rods
• Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
• Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with 70-cc chambers
• 56mm titanium intake valves
• 41mm sodium-filled exhaust valves
• 11.0:1 compression ratio
• Composite manifold with 90 mm single-bore throttle body
• Camshaft with 15-mm (.591-inch) lift
• Dry-sump oiling system
• 7000-rpm redline
WEIGHT: 3130lbs/1420kg

500hp/475lb-ft torque.

I hate to say it, but it looks like the SRT is just going to become a slower, worse-handling, american car than the high-end Corvette.

Still no word on the price, but its pretty much a given that GM will try to undercut DC on this one.

DC has been sitting on its laurels for far too long, and dare I say, if they aren't willing to do anything about it, they deserve to be beaten.

May very well put one of these C6 Z06's in my garage for errands but how can you compare a car that's stamped out like krispy Kreme donuts to the Viper SRT-10...you can't. The Viper shall reign king, it is in the master plan. Reality is these are very different cars my friend.

 

[ShadowFox]

DC is not GM. GM likes to publish all the details of a car that hasn’t be built yet. DC likes to have a car displayed and the engine cranking while the spokes man tells us all the details.
Just like they did with the past vipers (we should know this by now).
I’m really feeling something sick coming our way for Jans Auto Show and I would not be too surprise when they do.
DC has a sick mind, remember when they strapped a 500HP viper Engine to a bike??? Who would forget that moment, mind blowing if you ask me.
I’m positive DC would not let the viper come 2nd.

 

[NOMERCY]

Those C6 Z06 numbers are not from a GM press release.

 

[Viperfreak2]

DC HAD a sick mind.....his name was Wolfgang. He now works for VW.

 

[vipersrt10]

no matter what its still a vette, a dime a dozen car

 

[dirk989]

"I hate to say it, but it looks like the SRT is just going to become a slower, worse-handling, american car than the high-end Corvette."

Even if the new Vette manages to be produced anywhere close to the numbers you've quoted (which I still doubt based on GM's previous history) then it still won't be faster or better handling than the SRT-10. It might be close and it will be cheaper.

"May very well put one of these C6 Z06's in my garage for errands but how can you compare a car that's stamped out like krispy Kreme donuts to the Viper SRT-10...you can't. The Viper shall reign king, it is in the master plan. Reality is these are very different cars my friend. "

I couldn't have said that any better. You didn't even mention the fact that we are driving a true convertible. I didn't buy my Viper because it had the most hp of any car on the planet or because it was the fastest car on the planet.

I still don't think that even a 600 hp vette is going to affect the Viper unless you believe that hp and top end speed is the only reason to buy a car. It isn't. I am,like a lot of us, a long time vette fan. However, the honest truth is that the vette is minor league compared to the Viper. Quality, style, character etc are all points for the viper. It helps that it has incredible torque (who cares about hp), handling, stopping etc.

I don't care if vette builds a carbon fiber 2000 lb, 900 horse car. I might get one to trash around, but I'll always prefer the Viper.

Dirk


Oh, and don't even think about messing with the V10 engine because it is heavy.

 

[Guyver1]

I think Dodge should up the hp, but also take some measures to lower the biggest weight sink in the Viper, namely the 600-some odd lb V10 engine.

Carbon Fiber panels are going to be a very small weight savings compared to the stock materials used.

FYI about the Z06...

6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers
• Cross-drilled rotors
• Aluminum engine block with 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in liners
• Forged steel crankshaft with 101.6-mm stroke
• 6-bolt, forged steel main bearing caps
• Titanium connecting rods
• Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
• Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with 70-cc chambers
• 56mm titanium intake valves
• 41mm sodium-filled exhaust valves
• 11.0:1 compression ratio
• Composite manifold with 90 mm single-bore throttle body
• Camshaft with 15-mm (.591-inch) lift
• Dry-sump oiling system
• 7000-rpm redline
WEIGHT: 3130lbs/1420kg

500hp/475lb-ft torque.

I hate to say it, but it looks like the SRT is just going to become a slower, worse-handling, american car than the high-end Corvette.

Still no word on the price, but its pretty much a given that GM will try to undercut DC on this one.

DC has been sitting on its laurels for far too long, and dare I say, if they aren't willing to do anything about it, they deserve to be beaten.

May very well put one of these C6 Z06's in my garage for errands but how can you compare a car that's stamped out like krispy Kreme donuts to the Viper SRT-10...you can't. The Viper shall reign king, it is in the master plan. Reality is these are very different cars my friend.

That, in itself, is part of the problem. While, yes, you are paying for the exclusiveness of having a Viper, it turns into a "nice car" and not the epitome of performance that its supposed to be. I also think that these Vettes might be a tad rarer than people seem to think.

(Yeah, its a $80,000 car that gets trounced in every way by a $60,000 car, BUT ITS RARE!!! HAH!!!)

Sounds a lot like the sort of stuff that Ferrari or Lambo owners like to say.

If you want an exclusive car, buy a high-priced Benz or BMW. The Viper always has been about performance (well, to a degree), not how exclusive the car is, its just a bonus as a halo vehicle.

On that note, there still hasn't been any mention of price, but I'm betting that it'll be a lot closer to the price of a Viper, than of the base model C6.

Now the key question for us is...

What would it take to get the Carbon Concept's engine past emissions?

 

[dirk989]

"Yeah, its a $80,000 car that gets trounced in every way by a $60,000 car, BUT ITS RARE!!! HAH!!!)"

On what do you base that opinion? What kind of torque numbers will the new vette put out? (Assuming it is produced according to the specs above) How will it handle? Why do you think it will outhandle and outperform a Viper? Do you have any basis for this?

It's pretty easy to just assume that a car will be the greatest handling, best performing car ever made based on some preliminary potential spec sheet. It is not easy to produce a car that lives up to that hype. Go over to the Vette forums. Before the C6 came out you got the same kind of rumors. They were all confirmed and backed up by magazines and official 'sources.' The c6 comes out and it is nowhere near what it was supposed to be. Nice car. Not a supercar though.

Guyver1, I notice that you are a student and don't appear to own a Viper. Have you driven an SRT-10? I'm quite sure that the performance of the car is beyond the driving capabilities of most. The limits of the car are beyond what you can use on the street, even illegally. The only place where the upper limits of these cars come into play is on the track. A Viper and that big engine you complain about can be easily modded to produce nearly double the power that comes stock. GM already squeezes about every drop of horsepower out of their cute little vette powerplant.

500 horse? Maybe. 475 torque. Maybe. But it will be all you can ever get out of the engine. How reliable is an engine performing at its absolute maximum? If they want to change the engine then everything changes. The whole car has to change. Figuring out how to fit a new engine into the car and re-engineer the handling then becomes a huge job.

Most vipers get modded. The Viper powerplant can easily handle that. If all you want is horsepower and 0-60 times, then you buy a Viper, do a few mods and you're still the king.

If you are a bit more sophisticated than that, you buy the ****, convertible, world-class handling Viper and enjoy it.

Dirk

 

[Epro]

I saw that as well... It appears the current vette can beat a gen 1 viper now...

 

[Epro]

On that note, there still hasn't been any mention of price, but I'm betting that it'll be a lot closer to the price of a Viper, than of the base model C6.

C & D said the 2005 C6 was a hundred dollars LESS than the C5.

 

[kaval]

Kai, I do agree with your statements. Personally, I'd be more than happy to purchase OEM uprgrades for my SRT. Cams, ECU's, headers Oh my! However, more important than anything else, Bragging Rights. Oh the ecstacy, Blazing thru highway traffic making my way to local car shows licking my lips as I go. Yurning, longing, so desperately to hear those so sweet yet foolhardy syllables..." my civic with $30,000 in mods can beet yur viper in da firs 60 fut of a drag race." or "my vette is better then yur viper cuz I paid less and wit the extra money i saved i can make it fasser then yur car and by my o'le lady those 3 front teef sheez been axin me fur."
Consequently, I implore DC to continue to make available to us one of the best examples of track-ready sports cars on the market. Let us keep one step ahead of the competion. Let us remain just beyond the grasp of mediocrity. Let us not be likend to those unfortunate hordes busily scrambling, plotting and modding in an attempt to try and keep up after-the-fact. Let us continually push the envelope and let us not be left wanting.

In January we will know where we stand...

 

[ShadowFox]

I’m really looking in the 600Hp range for Jan’s debuted Viper, 550Hp at minimum.
DC can easily push the viper to 600, thanks to the V-10 8.3 Litter engine.
From DC’s last attempt of the Viper Coupe Concept #2 they are really shooting to make the Viper light as a feather with the same 500Hp engine.
Some of us drivers are not that light as a feather this is why we need the extra 50 to 100Hp to push our fat Asses from burger king to burger king in less than 3.9 seconds … I mean 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.

What’s your take?

 

[ShadowFox]

I mean no harm on my stupid comment above. I’m just having a fun day today.

 

[VIPER D]

I think Dodge should up the hp, but also take some measures to lower the biggest weight sink in the Viper, namely the 600-some odd lb V10 engine.

Carbon Fiber panels are going to be a very small weight savings compared to the stock materials used.

FYI about the Z06...

6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers
• Cross-drilled rotors
• Aluminum engine block with 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in liners
• Forged steel crankshaft with 101.6-mm stroke
• 6-bolt, forged steel main bearing caps
• Titanium connecting rods
• Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
• Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with 70-cc chambers
• 56mm titanium intake valves
• 41mm sodium-filled exhaust valves
• 11.0:1 compression ratio
• Composite manifold with 90 mm single-bore throttle body
• Camshaft with 15-mm (.591-inch) lift
• Dry-sump oiling system
• 7000-rpm redline
WEIGHT: 3130lbs/1420kg

500hp/475lb-ft torque.

I hate to say it, but it looks like the SRT is just going to become a slower, worse-handling, american car than the high-end Corvette.

Still no word on the price, but its pretty much a given that GM will try to undercut DC on this one.

DC has been sitting on its laurels for far too long, and dare I say, if they aren't willing to do anything about it, they deserve to be beaten.

There is a easy fix to the above


"DLM/PAXTON BLOWER"

VD

 

[Dash Riprock]

I was talking with a friend who owns one of our local Chevy dealerships about the new z06. He said they are telling him that it will be 475hp. He also told me about the "blue devil" that is supposed to have 700hp, but felt it will never make it past the GM legal dept. We will have to wait and see, but I'd be surprised if Dodge did not stay ahead.

Dash
2004 SRT-10

 

[Kai SRT10]

I was talking with a friend who owns one of our local Chevy dealerships about the new z06. He said they are telling him that it will be 475hp. He also told me about the "blue devil" that is supposed to have 700hp, but felt it will never make it past the GM legal dept. We will have to wait and see, but I'd be surprised if Dodge did not stay ahead.

Dash
2004 SRT-10

If I were in GM's legal department, I would definitely need to do some serious long-term, personal testing of that blue devil before I gave it my OK

 

[Paul Hawker]

I just picked up my Paxton from DC perfomance. It closes the door on all these arguments. Easy to drive normally, but when the revs some up...OMG!

 

[SnakeEye]

And how can anyone be without...makes the Beast evil now doesn't it.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Evil spell backwards is LIVE!

 

[Ooomph]

EDIT: sorry guys, just read the 2nd page where the Z's specs were already listed. Removed.

Dear Chicken Little:

Also, to milk much of a hp increase out of the small block Chevy engine is going to take a lot of engineering, and most certainly a significant increase in price.

The Mustang has a great heritage and should have evolved into something like the GT. Instead we got the same handling, ride and look of 1965. Shove a big engine in it and somebody will buy it, but it still isn't a competitor to the Viper.

DC

also, the new body style mustang has a completely new chassis that is lower, longer (in wheelbase) and wider. much like what you'd find on a bmw. Granted, the mustang isn't a direct sales competitor with the Viper but even now a 500hp in an '03 Cobra is a (street/strip) competitor to a Viper.

While I don't think that the SRT Vipers will have too much to worry about, I won't underestimate my main competitors, which in my neck of the woods is solely Vettes and Cobra's (we don't have many exotics in NM). I bought my SRT because stock for stock (almost)nothing in my state can touch it. Good news for us is that the ford motor is already s/c'd and tuned and only gets 550hp and the new Z06 has such a high compression ratio that a s/c or tt kit will involve at the least modified heads or maybe even internals. truthfully, I think Chevy is going all out because it's tired of their flagship getting trounced by pullied '03 Cobra's (that, and it doesn't hurt to match an SRT's hp number...).

Regardless, I've got one of 1800 or so '03's or 1 of 390 bright silver metallics and when I drive my car I never, ever, ever see any Vipers - but everyone sees me . With 30k yearly corvette units and probably triple that for the stangs, the cobra's and Z06's will continue to blend in with the pack.

 

[jcaspar1]

"If you want an exclusive car, buy a high-priced Benz or BMW."

Exclusive cars?? They are dime a dozen around here. I must see 3-4 AMG's and M's each day on the way to work. Who knows how many others I see but don;t get close enough to see the badges to know that they are one. SL's are everywhere here. If I wanted exclusive I would get a PT Crusier, they are a lot rarer than MB's or BMW's around here....