DODGE ***** WHEN IT COMES TO PROBLEMS

[VENOMUS]

I never imagined owning a Viper could be so great and such a tremendous pain at the same time. I posted this problem some months ago about my brand new 04 burning oil. I also posted a message if anyone had experience with the lemon law. It burns about a quart of oil every 200 miles. I had the vehicle into two dealers for the problem and the last time they said they found the problem and resolved the issue. To make a long story short, I drove the car another 700 miles the oil became low again and the bearings were burned up on the #7 and #8 cylinders.

Dodge now wants to pull the engine and install a new factory engine, NOT AN ENGINE FROM ARROW RACING. I have been fighting with them to buy back the car and they are refusing to do so. The Maryland Lemon law does apply but the attorney general is telling me it will be a long drawn out fight which could take six months or longer to resolve. The car has already been inoperable for going on seven weeks now and I only owned the damn thing for seven months.

I just want a Viper that runs the way it is supposed to and get my monies worth. If they do replace the engine, I am concerned that the dealers don’t have the technical expertise to replace a $22,000.00 engine. The dealer is telling me that there is a design flaw in the engine, (the top end is too strong for the bottom) so am I getting another engine with a design flaw. If they do replace the engine I guarantee the resale value of the car will go down very quickly and I planned replacing the Viper every two years with a new one.

If they do replace the engine, I want one from Arrow Racing and not the factory. A dealer who has experience with the work must do the engine replacement. I need my monthly payments suspended and I think I deserve a massive credit for the car being devalued.

I currently have an attorney working on this but this is a massive pain in the butt. Now the dealer wants to tow the car back to me because they don’t want to store it while Dodge and I fight this out. THIS *****, does anyone have any advice or recommendations?

 

[99 R/T 10]

There is a member who went the "lemon law" route and won. Can't remember who it was, but they did retain a lawyer. The dealer's reponse of "design flaw in the engine, the top end is too strong for the bottom" is BS. If you want get with one of the best dealers period, call Chuck Tator 914-763-3136. Good lick

 

[SteveBCloud9]

Ouch.. Sorry to hear about all of the troubles... I'd try to talk to someone directly at Dodge... don't rely on the dealership to provide you with feedback from them. It sounds like you've done some homework.... Maybe see if they'll at least give you another Viper to drive for now.....

 

[Art 138]

For liability reasons DC's Attorneys would probably not allow any other engine other than Factory. Also it sets a precendent for them on future claims.

-Was the engine torn down to determine the exact problem? This might be something your attorney can insist on?
- Was your vehicle an early production 04??
- Cam bolt, Harmonic Damper, check Problems on recall?

 

[VENOMUS]

I forgot to attach some pictures of the damaged bearings so hear they are. As far as Dodge not allowing another engine besides a factory engine, Arrow Racing does all of the Dodge Viper engine repairs. Supposedly when an engine comes back from Arrow it is much better then a factory engine.

 

[VENOMUS]

I can't figure out how to attach pictures to my post. Can anyone please explain.

 

[ViperJohn]

Which dealership did you take it to?

There has been a black SRT sitting at Fitzgerald in Frederick. Is that your car?

 

[VENOMUS]

Yes, my black SRT is at Fitzgerald.

 

[Brian E]

Try and negotiate a cash settlement with Dodge for the repair of your existing engine and then send your car to Jason Heffners and have him rebuild the motor.
You would be very happy if you could go this route.

 

[VENOMUS]

Brian:

The Jason Heffner suggestion is a great one. Especially since he is so close to me, about 30 minute drive. Questions however, If the motor is going to cost dodge $22,000.00 plus labor. I would imagine thier costs would be in the high 20K's. How much above the engine replacement costs should I be asking for? maybe an additional 10K? Also, if Jason does the rebuild will I lose my warranty?

Thanks

 

[Brian E]

Brian:

The Jason Heffner suggestion is a great one. Especially since he is so close to me, about 30 minute drive. Questions however, If the motor is going to cost dodge $22,000.00 plus labor. I would imagine thier costs would be in the high 20K's. How much above the engine replacement costs should I be asking for? maybe an additional 10K? Also, if Jason does the rebuild will I lose my warranty?

Thanks

20K will get you a hell of a motor from Jason.
If I was going to keep my 04, I would definately send it to him for a steroid injection!

 

[VIPER D]

For liability reasons DC's Attorneys would probably not allow any other engine other than Factory. Also it sets a precendent for them on future claims.

-Was the engine torn down to determine the exact problem? This might be something your attorney can insist on?
- Was your vehicle an early production 04??
- Cam bolt, Harmonic Damper, check Problems on recall?

How about the vin #'s

vd..

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Arrow Racing doesn't sell engines, they rebuild them for Dodge (and I assume do their own work as well). If the engine is "unfixable" (not sure of the extent of damage), then you have to have a replacement and it can ONLY come from Dodge. If the engine is repairable and that is what you want, insist on it based on having matching numbers. While it doesn't seem to be as big an issue with Vipers (most assume the numbers always match), in the Corvette world non-matching numbers can play hell with the value of a car. That would be my single biggest argument against a factory replacement motor.

As to Heffner or others repairing the engine under warranty and retaining the same, I suspect it would be unlikely. While I think a Dodge dealer can arrange to subcontract certain work and still get paid under warranty, it would be difficult with an engine rebuild - or even finding a Dodge dealer willing to assign the claim to an outside vendor. Mind you, we have some Viper techs on this site that can answer that a lot better than me, but that would be my uneducated guess. I believe that when it comes to an engine rebuild, Arrow is the only authorized vendor to do them and still keep it under warranty.

Best of luck in however it turns out!

Chris

 

[VENOMUS]

Chris:

The mid-Atlantic business center is telling me there are no serial numbers on the Viper engines. They are also saying the engine came through Arrow Racing which is a total contradiction from what the dealer told me. Dodge frankly just does not care when it comes to the value of the car being lowered. They told me flat out that it's not there problem that the cars value is lower due to the repairs.

The more that I get into this, the more it looks like a long drawn out legal fight for Dodge to make things right.

Viper owners beware, Dodge will not come to your rescue when things get ugly!!!!

 

[Janni]

The engines are stamped with the serial number that matches the car during assembly. Verified with a tour and saw the process.

The engines are built and supplied on a line right alongside the car assembly plant - in Detroit - by DODGE.

Sometimes, an Arrow rebuild wil actually increase the value of the car. I don't know of any legitimate engine replacement issues (i.e. defects - NOT abuse related) that have contributed to the devaluation of a Viper.

The whole numbers matching thing is highly overrated - and only will come into play MANY years in the future so unless you are really planning to keep this (oh - and not drive it) for many years, it's gonna be hard to argue.

It sounds like your dealer and rep leave a little to be desired...... Not that that makes it any easier - but take the new engine. Have them pay to bring your car back home while the engine is out. With a good tech, an engine swap shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Roadrunner]

Hmmm... if you also follow Classic Mopar values, you'll notice that "warranty" blocks are fairly widely accepted as "original". Warranty blocks typically have blank VIN pads, but date codes fit within the warranty window. In some ways a 426 or 440 warranty block is worth far more today than a VIN coded block. Though, yes, matching numbers is still best. But hey 30 years from now if you still have your viper, a warranty block will be a minor hit...

Still it is very sad that you lost a motor...

Personally I'd rather a new engine over an Arrow rebuild, unless you plan on paying arrow to work over the engine while they "rebuild" it. Most of the stories involving an arrow rebuild also involve a nice head port massage, and re-decking (increase compression)... There would be advantages (more power) and disadvantages (no meat left for any future work) to that. Best of luck!

 

[DodgeViper01]

It is the dealer to tell you the truth. I have had the same problems with a dealer. The hardtop hinges keep breaking and they keep telling me they are fixing a noise in the wheel well but never do. They are horrible. They even gave me back my car with a misaligned door when the replaced the hinge. It has gotten so bad that they just ignore me and do not even call me back. By the way the dealer is BUHLER DODGE. They have lost ALL my business now!

 

[turbodoc]

Hire a lawyer!

 

[Janni]

I don't wnt to speak for Mepop - but I spoke to him on the phone and Dodge IS stepping up to the plate and solving his problem.

Sometimes the dealers and regional service folks don't have the right experience to handle these types of problems. Sometimes the new engine option is offered as a convenience to the customer, so they are not without their car for an extended period of time as they would be with an Arrow rebuild.

Hopefully he'll chime in, and explain what Dodge is doing for him, but when I talked to him, he seemed to be pleased.

 

[VIPERMIKE]

I saw two 04 Vipers at a Dodge dealership with the same oil burning problem(waiting on new engines)....My 03 is in the shop 90% of the time. I'm not happy!

 

[redsrt]

Based upon my experiences with DC (see Clutch Problem/Vin Check), expecting any type of customer support after you buy a Viper is a pipe dream. American-made cars and trucks are basically a piece of [******] (can I say that here without offending anyone?) and the manufactures know it. That's why they try to wriggle out of any warranty issues that they can. I applaud Mepop for retaining a lawyer (that's the only real reason DC is reconsidering). Considering the limited number of Vipers that are built each year, it is totally amazing of the number of serious problems they are having (not to mention the stuff we overlook like missing panel screws, rattles, etc.). The only thing we common people can do is NEVER buy DC products again and tell our stories to as many people as we can in hopes that they will be disuaded from buying DC vehicles. We can't win the battles, but if we can keep two or three people from buying a DC product, then whatever money DC may have saved by screwing us, they will have lost several times over in lost sales. Maybe that is the real reason dealers are offering discounts on the '03s to make room for the '05s.

I can't wait until Toyota comes out with a 500HP+ super car, then the weasels at DC will really be stuck with their shoddy $85k cars!

 

[SRT10]

Fortunatly I can say the complete opposite. I've purchased 2 new Vipers from Buhler Dodge and I never had any major problems. (A 01 Sapphire Blue RT/10 and a 03 SRT-10). The RT/10 needed the soft top replaced & the SRT-10 is absolutely rock solid ,I love it! Last January I purchased a new 04 Dodge Dakota Pickup and again no problems at all.
I guess you hear more about complaints than good service!

 

[VENOMUS]

I will update this forum when I get my Viper back and let everyone know the results.

 

[trumper Z06]

CONGRATS Mepop, looks like you got the problem "under control" !!!

 

[Epro]

That *****

 

[VENOMUS]

VCA to the rescue, not Dodge!!!!

I would like to update everyone as to where I am in the process of having my 04 Viper repaired. Dodge fought hard not to buy back the car. This was the reason they wanted to put a new engine into the car and not have the original engine rebuilt. The Lemon Law states that if a vehicle is out of service for more then 30 days then the law requires the manufacturer to buy back or replace the car. To have an engine pulled, sent to Arrow Racing for a rebuild, sent back for a reinstall takes about two months. A new engine from Dodge takes only about a week. This was the only reason, in my opinion, that Dodge wanted to go this route. They did not want the expense and the trouble of buying back the car. They were already over the 30 day limit but were using weak reasons to even argue that point.

Thanks to the VCA and all of you on this forum for helping me with the best information on this process. With the advice from everyone on here gave me the ammunition to push Dodge to have the repairs done correctly. If it were not for you folks, I would still be struggling to find the best way to handle this even with an attorney involved. You know what they say about attorneys, they are like nuclear weapons, everyone has them but once you use them they screw up everything.

To set the record strait, I am crazy about the Viper. I have only owned it for seven months and have had a ton of problems but I was addicted even before I first turned that little red start button. I know I will have a Viper in my garage for the rest of my life. When there are problems like this, we need to push Dodge to do the right thing, not convince others not to buy the product because IT’S A GREAT PRODUCT!!!!

Dodge is paying Tom Sessions from D&E Dodge in North Carolina to come get the car here in Maryland and bring it to his shop this weekend. Tom will remove and crate the engine and send it to Arrow Racing in Michigan. Arrow will rebuild the engine and then ship it back to Tom. Tom will reinstall the engine and I should see the car by the end of December or early next year. Dodge is paying for all the work and shipping. When I get the car back, the engine should be much stronger then a factory engine thanks to Arrow Racing and Tom Sessions and that puts a big smile on my face. Yes I am out of my Viper for a few more months but as a Viper owner I am more interested in the quality of a true American race car.

If anyone out there has a problem with their Viper, you need to hook up with Tom Sessions. His main concern is to make the car the best it can be. He knows Vipers more then any Dodge tech that I have spoken with and I have spoken with many lately.

Thanks again to the VCA, its members and Tom Sessions!!!!!!! I will update this forum when I get my Viper back and let everyone know the results.

Mepop, 410-599-8803

 

[Phil]

Mepop,

Glad to hear that your problem is resolving. By all means, I 100% knows how you feel because I went through the exact same step that you are now going through on my ex-98 GTS. The wait for the rebuilt however, is a bit long. But once you get your Viper back, you will be a happy person all over again.

There is one thing I gotta tell you is, owning and driving the Viper is so magical. Although I went through all the troubles that you are having right now, and my 2001 GTS leaks water, after all, I still can't resist to continue buying another one. I guess there is some kind of magic behind the VIPER. I love it so much and there are virtually no cars out there can compare to the instant power that the Viper is giving. Good luck with your car and all the best!!!

 

[DodgeViper01]

Fortunatly I can say the complete opposite. I've purchased 2 new Vipers from Buhler Dodge and I never had any major problems. (A 01 Sapphire Blue RT/10 and a 03 SRT-10). The RT/10 needed the soft top replaced & the SRT-10 is absolutely rock solid ,I love it! Last January I purchased a new 04 Dodge Dakota Pickup and again no problems at all.
I guess you hear more about complaints than good service!

They used to take care of me but not anymore because I guess I am "too much trouble" for them? Who knows. All I know is that what they are doing is wrong and they will never get my business or a friends business again. Now I have to dealers to add to the bad list, Dayton Dodge and Buhler Dodge.

 

[DodgeViper01]

Mepop,

Glad to hear that your problem is resolving. By all means, I 100% knows how you feel because I went through the exact same step that you are now going through on my ex-98 GTS. The wait for the rebuilt however, is a bit long. But once you get your Viper back, you will be a happy person all over again.

There is one thing I gotta tell you is, owning and driving the Viper is so magical. Although I went through all the troubles that you are having right now, and my 2001 GTS leaks water, after all, I still can't resist to continue buying another one. I guess there is some kind of magic behind the VIPER. I love it so much and there are virtually no cars out there can compare to the instant power that the Viper is giving. Good luck with your car and all the best!!!

Phil:

Nice collection of cars by the way.

 

[womsterr]

Mepop...so funny you say that. Tom Sessions is picking up my SRT next week for a rebuild at Arrow. Shoot me a pm with your number and we can trade war stories

What was the problem? Rod bearings and 7 and 8. Coincidence?

GOOD LUCK.