Dodge to drop out of racing.

[SnakeBitten]

Agreed. Marketing, marketing, marketing. They will have to learn that fast and at the same time continue to build on the G5 progress. It will not get easier for them in the future as it was just released that Chevy will be coming with a mid-engined ZR1 for 2017 with a lot of tech, around 150k price tag and 1500 a year exclusivity. It will always be an uphill battle for the Viper if it survives because of the funding gap but we have seen that SRT/Dodge has done a lot with comparatively little. Hopefully the Viper will still be around by 2017 and this forces Dodge to do the ACR.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Agreed. Marketing, marketing, marketing. They will have to learn that fast and at the same time continue to build on the G5 progress. It will not get easier for them in the future as it was just released that Chevy will be coming with a mid-engined ZR1 for 2017 with a lot of tech, around 150k price tag and 1500 a year exclusivity. It will always be an uphill battle for the Viper if it survives because of the funding gap but we have seen that SRT/Dodge has done a lot with comparatively little. Hopefully the Viper will still be around by 2017 and this forces Dodge to do the ACR.

With things the way they are now my gut feeling is there will be no Viper after the 2015 year. But for 15 there is an ACR similar version with the TA 2.0 as it is available with wing and front aero too. That model should sell out quick, very limited production.

 

[James1]

I just think this means they are about to make a monster Viper. I mean even the sedan is faster now. Not to mention the rumored return of the Ford GT in 2016.

 

[Bobpantax]

If the 2015 sells, and I think it will, we will see future Vipers. The 15K owner coupon is a tell. It goes through January 2018. Dodge is just puting marketing on the right track. (Dodge had/has much to reconfigure with respect to marketing. As we all know, it was previously a clusterf***.) There was never anything wrong with the car. It is magnificent with the best design in its class and price range. It just desparately needs visibility to the masses.

I assume that Ben K will still be racing.

With things the way they are now my gut feeling is there will be no Viper after the 2015 year. But for 15 there is an ACR similar version with the TA 2.0 as it is available with wing and front aero too. That model should sell out quick, very limited production.

 

[MoparMap]

Rumor has it the $15k price hike (now drop) on the car was to fund the race team http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2014/10/leaving-tudor-behind-the-scenes. They were supposedly told that they needed to find another sponsor besides their customers, but sounds like the team thought if they won that Dodge would see the light and keep the money flowing.

As far as the mid-engined Vette, I don't see that being competition in a certain sense. At that price tag (I'm guessing that would also just be base price), it's not really in the Viper's tax bracket. That kind of car would be more aimed at Euro exotics or possibly the big three Hypercars currently out there, not really the "blue collar" supercar that the Viper is. It would be one hell of a deal if they could get that kind of performance out of a car for that price though, no doubt.

And I know that you can option a Viper right up to that $140k number, but you can also option a 4 door sedan up to $80k, but that doesn't make it a competitor to a Viper. It's the $150k entry price of the Vette that puts it in a different class (assuming it happens at all).

 

[SnakeBitten]

Rumor has it the $15k price hike (now drop) on the car was to fund the race team http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2014/10/leaving-tudor-behind-the-scenes. They were supposedly told that they needed to find another sponsor besides their customers, but sounds like the team thought if they won that Dodge would see the light and keep the money flowing.

As far as the mid-engined Vette, I don't see that being competition in a certain sense. At that price tag (I'm guessing that would also just be base price), it's not really in the Viper's tax bracket. That kind of car would be more aimed at Euro exotics or possibly the big three Hypercars currently out there, not really the "blue collar" supercar that the Viper is. It would be one hell of a deal if they could get that kind of performance out of a car for that price though, no doubt.

And I know that you can option a Viper right up to that $140k number, but you can also option a 4 door sedan up to $80k, but that doesn't make it a competitor to a Viper. It's the $150 entry price of the Vette that puts it in a different class (assuming it happens at all).

You have a point about the price point hehe. And you are right the 2017 ZR1 won't be aimed at the Viper it is rumored to be aimed at Porsche, Fererri etc. Even the previous ZR1 was not aimed at the Viper, but at the Euro supercars but the comparisons in both the press and with the masses were there even as the ZR1 was a bit more expensive. Also eventhough the ZR1 and the ACR are not really comparable as one was a GT and the other a racer they were still pitted against each other in our minds and in the press. Its going to be hard to not think of any big power Vette as competition.

 

[MoparMap]

You have a point about the price point hehe. And you are right the 2017 ZR1 won't be aimed at the Viper it is rumored to be aimed at Porsche, Fererri etc. Even the previous ZR1 was not aimed at the Viper, but at the Euro supercars but the comparisons in both the press and with the masses were there even as the ZR1 was a bit more expensive. Also eventhough the ZR1 and the ACR are not really comparable as one was a GT and the other a racer they were still pitted against each other in our minds and in the press. Its going to be hard to not think of any big power Vette as competition.

Agreed, any time cars share something similar in common they'll be compared, regardless of whether that was the designers' intent. In reality I think the Vette and Viper are really quite similar. They strike me as the best performance cars you can get for the money. The difference is that the Viper is also much rarer and over the top in some regards (more extreme design, slightly less utility/compromise, etc.). The Vette is the American supercar, the Viper is the American exotic. The Viper also really only comes in one flavor, fast. The base model Vettes are no slouches, but they just don't have the same kind of feeling and impression that driving a Viper gives. Every Viper is a spectacle, even the old ones. The proliferation of Vettes is the main reason some people don't like them, hence why they might look at a Viper. They don't mind paying a slight premium for a more exclusive car. It's how Ferrari has operated for all these years. They aren't any faster than a Viper, but some people just have to have that prancing horse, even if it means paying 3 times the price.

 

[Bobpantax]

If the Vette gets too pricey, it will run into the same price resistance the Viper did. Same issues. I read the Allpar article about the 15K and the alleged failure/refusal to get sponsors. I hope that the story is BS. Adding on 15K in price to finance racing in a relatively new and obscure series would not have made much sense. But that is water under the bridge. I think that Dodge now has things on track. The past is the past.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Agreed, any time cars share something similar in common they'll be compared, regardless of whether that was the designers' intent. In reality I think the Vette and Viper are really quite similar. They strike me as the best performance cars you can get for the money. The difference is that the Viper is also much rarer and over the top in some regards (more extreme design, slightly less utility/compromise, etc.). The Vette is the American supercar, the Viper is the American exotic. The Viper also really only comes in one flavor, fast. The base model Vettes are no slouches, but they just don't have the same kind of feeling and impression that driving a Viper gives. Every Viper is a spectacle, even the old ones. The proliferation of Vettes is the main reason some people don't like them, hence why they might look at a Viper. They don't mind paying a slight premium for a more exclusive car. It's how Ferrari has operated for all these years. They aren't any faster than a Viper, but some people just have to have that prancing horse, even if it means paying 3 times the price.

Cant argue with that. I would add that I think Chevy may be addressing the commonality of the Vette with the special mid-engined ZR1 for 2017 with just 1500 being made a year. No base model debut for the C8 like they did with prior years just the big dog right away. I wonder if the regular Vette will continue front engine, rwd while the ZR1 will be special with its mid engine and low production numbers? It would solve the ZR1's biggest image problem in looking like the base Vettes and hence not standing out as something special like Viper has done from day one.

Too early to tell but I wonder if the upcoming ZR1 may be the first Vette to get the exotic label? I really hope the Snake is around to do battle with both ZR1 and FGT. Imagine Le Mans with all three represented on the grid.

 

[Policy Limits]

Will the race cars be sold after they are retired? Realize that they are not street legal but owning a GTS-R would be incredible. Any idea on value?

 

[MoparMap]

Cant argue with that. I would add that I think Chevy may be addressing the commonality of the Vette with the special mid-engined ZR1 for 2017 with just 1500 being made a year. No base model debut for the C8 like they did with prior years just the big dog right away. I wonder if the regular Vette will continue front engine, rwd while the ZR1 will be special with its mid engine and low production numbers? It would solve the ZR1's biggest image problem in looking like the base Vettes and hence not standing out as something special like Viper has done from day one.

Too early to tell but I wonder if the upcoming ZR1 may be the first Vette to get the exotic label? I really hope the Snake is around to do battle with both ZR1 and FGT. Imagine Le Mans with all three represented on the grid.

That would be interesting. I'm not sure there is any car in existance that has two different body styles and powertrain layouts that shares a common name. With the penny pinchers nowadays I'd have a hard time seeing why they wouldn't build everything on a common platform to get volume costs down. You'd think they'd almost call it something else and market it at the next step up over the Vette that GM might offer. It would be fun to see that and the Ford GT come otu again, then all three big players would have a low volume supercar in their ranks and America might get a little more respect in the market.

 

[SnakeBitten]

That would be interesting. I'm not sure there is any car in existance that has two different body styles and powertrain layouts that shares a common name. With the penny pinchers nowadays I'd have a hard time seeing why they wouldn't build everything on a common platform to get volume costs down. You'd think they'd almost call it something else and market it at the next step up over the Vette that GM might offer. It would be fun to see that and the Ford GT come otu again, then all three big players would have a low volume supercar in their ranks and America might get a little more respect in the market.

Actually that is what Nissan did with the GTR and the Skyline. They both were the same car and platform for its entire history a la Corvette before the R-35 model we know as simply the GTR. With the R-35 the GTR got its own chassis and engine while they dropped the Skyline name from it. But the Skyline remained as a separate model. What we call the G37/Q50 etc is a Skyline in Japan.

Imho this would do wonders for Chevy if they made this new mid engined ZR1 its own model and keep the Corvette name for the base model and Z06. So the ZR1 would drop the Corvette name and adopt the mid-engined layout while the lesser models keep the rwd/front engined layout and the Corvette names. It will be pricy but it will be worth it as you can see with the GTR example. Instant exclusivity and maybe even exotic status at only 1500 units per year and mid engine layout.

 

[MoparMap]

I did not know that about the GTR, that's pretty interesting. I know they had the Skyline in Japan and thought the GT-R badging on it was just a package as opposed to the "official predecessor" so to speak. That would be very similar to a Vette setup. Having the ZR1 badging break off as a new car that started life as a package on the Vette.

 

[FrankBarba]

The Corvette Team is not laughing. If you all are so concerned with SRT Racing...Poney Up with your wallets.
This is the only way to keep that type of program going. If you don't want to send in that kind of money to help SRT
send it to Ben Keating to keep the Viper in the Racing News....He runs in GT 3

 

[SnakeBitten]

Its funny that when you go to the IMSA site you have to dig around to find anything on SRT winning its inaugural championship. They have the Falken Porsche that won the race shown prominently and the prototypes that won the championship but not the car/team that won the Tudor Championship. Interesting

 

[MoparMap]

That was always my main conplaint with the series. Even when the Vettes were winning the GT classes just felt really glossed over. It was all about the DP cars because they're faster, not the factory cars that you can kind of actually buy. Really they almost need to split the series again into a WEC style prototype series and a GT series more like Europe and Australia with their Touring Car series and V8 Supercar series.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Its funny that when you go to the IMSA site you have to dig around to find anything on SRT winning its inaugural championship. They have the Falken Porsche that won the race shown prominently and the prototypes that won the championship but not the car/team that won the Tudor Championship. Interesting

The IMSA site has always been very weak in its content compared to say the Nascar site. For example, after a race it takes decades almost for the standings to update. And they do mention the P car classes a lot more. They do show the awards banquet set for this Monday in NYC on 42nd street at a fine Italian place.