Don't let the world pass you by....

[toddt]

Don\'t let the world pass you by....

All--

You may not like the looks of this SRT, but I'm here to tell you, you may be forgetting what is selling today.

The SRT borrows almost every design cue from the Lexus SC430, the Honda S2000, and AudiTT, three of the hottest cars of today.

The results of my informal local market research (uh, asking around work) are as follows:
This car (though the viper loyalists generally hate it) is flat beautiful to the new generation.

I suspect this design may bring much respect to the viper line from the vast group of people in their 20's who are settling on their dream car, and have never heard of viperclub.org.

This car WILL turn heads in the industry, and represents a new direction for mopar design that may just wind up shattering demand records for the viper. Of course we don't see it here--we're biased!

It is evident to me, though this war over style rages here, that the battle is already over in the market sector that DC is really targeting--the future viper enthusiasts of America.

I can't wait to hear all about it from the first happy owner of one!!!

Regards to all,

Todd (I drive hardtops) Tope

 

[toddt]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

This is a good point...very good...and people wonder why we are so obsessed with the viper.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

I have never got the "i don't like the car" comment from anyone. I have both the SRT and GTS 01 plastered all over my walls at work, and everyone says they think the SRT is great looking, and even a couple said they liked it better than the GTS. Of course, the reverse is also true. It's about equal. It's amazing how many folks know a Viper exists but don't know what it really looks like. Those are the ones that I like to grill on the comparison.

 

[GTS Dean]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
you may be forgetting what is selling today.

The SRT borrows almost every design cue from ... three of the hottest cars of today.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why has Dodge chosen to "follow the leader" in styling? I guess Herb Helbig has only been able to keep the 'Holy Grail' safe underneath the lackluster bodywork. Thanks are surely due him and a few others for that much, I'll admit.

 

[Robert Dyck]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

Very sorry once again.......but I don't think there is anything nice that you can say about a car that lost so much distinction.

People are wild about the crazy-looking Gen 1 and 2s. Young kids, teenagers, everyone! Why take away the excitement?

 

[BigsViper]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Dyck:
People are wild about the crazy-looking Gen 1 and 2s. Young kids, teenagers, everyone! Why take away the excitement?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

....Because young kids and teenagers dont have the $$$$$$ to buy the Viper.

 

[FASTRNU]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but the Cobra body was a British product (AC Ace?) and the engine was American.

So the styling and stylist of the Cobra exterior, upon which the GEN I and II Viper design is based, was from a foreign country, and the Cobra engine was American, and that is okay?

Then why all the fuss about the Stylist of the SRT 10 being a foreigner? The SRT 10 exterior was designed by a foreigner, just like the Cobra exterior, and the engine is American, just like the Cobra.

Sounds like the SRT 10 is upholding the same tradition upon which your beloved Cobra (and GEN I/II Vipers)is based.

Dave

 

[SmokinV10]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
The original Viper was modelled after the 427 AC Cobra, an AMERICAN automotive icon......
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Similarly, SRT is modeled after an american automotive economy car....
THE STRATUS!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Tell me if I'm wrong here, but the Cobra body was a British product (AC Ace?) and the engine was American.
So the styling and stylist of the Cobra exterior, upon which the GEN I and II Viper design is based, was from a foreign country, and the Cobra engine was American, and that is okay?

Then why all the fuss about the Stylist of the SRT 10 being a foreigner? The SRT 10 exterior was designed by a foreigner, just like the Cobra exterior, and the engine is American, just like the Cobra.

Sounds like the SRT 10 is upholding the same tradition upon which your beloved Cobra (and GEN I/II Vipers)is based.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Dave,
I am hearing another bad case of blowing shunshine. There is a difference between the AC Ace and the Stratus. The AC Ace has a beautiful timeless body. The Stratus does not. The AC ace was an aluminum BRITISH sports car. The S2000/Stratus is designed by the guy who desinged the COROLLA!!! On the other hand Carroll Shelby put 289 and a 427 side-oiler in a car that weighed nothing but had beautiful lines. Caroll desinged the car and took the best parts of styling and performance at the time.He then took the best parts of that and created the shelby daytona coupe on which the viper GTS was modeled after. There is a big difference between adopting designs off of an AC ACE with a 427 flared fenders, hood scoops, halibrand knock offs, and adopting a design off of a foreigner who designs econobox gas savers. Stop trying to convince yourself its the same thing.

 

[Bugeater]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

Amen!

 

[Robert Dyck]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigsViper:
....Because young kids and teenagers dont have the $$$$$$ to buy the Viper.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
============================================

I also mentioned "everyone". This is the group containing the Viper owners and potential buyers.

 

[FASTRNU]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

SmokinV10: Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself it is not the same thing. If you don't like the redesign then don't buy it. You can have your opinion just as I can. You are not right or wrong, and neither am I. Call the SRT 10 a Stratus if you want, but it is a Viper all the same.

All I can say is that all this bashing of the new design only serves to divide this board with all the pi$$ing and moaning. The Viper Nation appears divided. Too bad. I hope all these petty differences are resolved by the time I buy my Viper. This board used to be enjoyable reading before the endless complaining started. Life is too short for all this BS.

Get over it.

Dave

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

I keep hearing over and over that the SRT was designed by a Japanese "corolla" designer. Did anyone here ever stop and think that more than one person would be involved in the design of a car and that it would evolve based on many factors, including management, and would ultimately have to receive approval from management. And the design management at the time of the concept car was the same up through Tom Gale as with the original Viper. So quit blaming it on an individual who was good enough that his sketches formed the basis for the concept that was ultimately chosen. He was only trying to satisfy his managements desires for the design.

I hear the same individuals over and over tell us the facts. But seldom do thay get one correct. The only fact I have heard from the whiners is that you do not like the SRT. That is only one vote or opinion each. Use those votes in the marketplace. There are millions of other potential buyers in the world and many that have a different opinion. Let the market decide.

And regarding the comments others have been making regarding design cues from Honda, and others. I think you may find that the closest design cues are from the Dodge Copperhead concept car (circa 1997). Take a look at the Copperhead from the A pillar rearward and of the top view. You will see unmistakeable commonality with the SRT. Maybe some of those cars you mention took cues from it as well.

 

[SRT10]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

AMEN!

 

[SmokinV10]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
SmokinV10: Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself it is not the same thing. If you don't like the redesign then don't buy it. You can have your opinion just as I can. You are not right or wrong, and neither am I. Call the SRT 10 a Stratus if you want, but it is a Viper all the same
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Revver,
on the subject of comparing the new SRT and its design to the AC Cobra, I dont believe anyone with an appreciation of classic automotive history would even dare argue this. You are comparing what many here already dislike to one of the best (if not the very best) automotive icons in automotive history. The AC Cobra symbolizes brutal all-out performance that is uncluttered by amenities or refinement. The 427 AC Cobra is the most replicated car in history with fakes floating around everywhere. There are more cobra replicas in existance than there are Vipers! The styling inspired the original viper. I dont imagine anyone making replcias of the SRT with its conroversal styling. There may be some who dont like the AC Cobra, but it may be agreed that the AC Cobra is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. If you like your SRT fine, but its designer and the origins of its design, and its additional "refinements" do not even come close to the heritage, breeding and pedigree of the AC Cobra. It wasnt designed by an automotive legend. Its roots are in fact deplorable in comparison wiht the AC Cobra or the Gen I and II cars... If your opinion is that they are simiar, you may just be delusional and uneducated on the history of the Cobra.

Dr Speed,
Since you are right that it probably required tremendous management approval to approve the SRT, I belive that discredits PVO's business savvy and their judgment. Bob Lutz who brought us our current viper even commented negatively on the SRT. So if the current PVO and DC marketing and management team approved the SRT and brought Mr. Moto into his position, I question their judgement and their ability to understand what Viper Nation really wants. What you said may be true...but all it does is discredit DC and PVO even further. I am so very dissapointed by DC and PVO. I can see the bulk of us abandoning the Viper badge soon and going over to the Blue Oval for the GT40. At least the GT40 stays true to its original racing history and doesnt try to become some sort of half breed of performance, so-so blah looks and economy.

 

[BigsViper]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

Bob D., I was not flaming you, I was just pointing out that in the SRT marketing plan, they are disregarding those who like the current model, including young kids and teenagers, and current owners who are singularly attracted to the outrageous looks, and are shooting for the more refined, money'd market, including vette, porsche, and other exotic buyers.

It's like my comment on spousal abuse:

I don't condone it, but I understand it!

 

[Tenney]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

It may be that fewer folks will cross-shop the SRT with exotics (Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, NSX, Z-8, etc.) than was the case with prior Gens. SRT styling, combined with car's origin, places it squarely in a competitve set with the Corvette, IMO. Would like the Viper to succeed as a brand, but am of the belief that it will require a sizable chunk of the current Vette customer base if it is to do so.

Specifically, were a market study to have been conducted to test the viability of a direct Vette-competitor prior to the launch of Gen I, there's a real chance that there wouldn't have been a launch at all, IMO. As the potential customer base (volume) for such a car may have proven insignificant.

Curious if DC considered a GEN I/II-like design on an equally decontented, raw and bare bones (racecar for the street) platform with an even greater leap in performance than the SRT will offer. This type of car might be offered in a more limited number and at a higher price point to be a feasible propostition financially (re: profitable). Think American exotic. Further, it would retain and expand on the equities that made it unique in the marketplace from the onset, continue to capitalize on relevant race history, and continue to serve the Dodge brand as a "halo" car and marketing tool.

 

[Robert Dyck]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigsViper:
Bob D., I was not flaming you, I was just pointing out that in the SRT marketing plan, they are disregarding those who like the current model, including young kids and teenagers, and current owners who are singularly attracted to the outrageous looks, and are shooting for the more refined, money'd market, including vette, porsche, and other exotic buyers.

It's like my comment on spousal abuse:

I don't condone it, but I understand it!

/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

============================================================

You don't understand it, but you are sure they are shooting for another market??

Well, by golly, I think I agree!

Tell me then, who do you think this other market is?? Who are they?

 

[BigsViper]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Robert Dyck:
You don't understand it, but you are sure they are shooting for another market??

Well, by golly, I think I agree!

Tell me then, who do you think this other market is?? Who are they? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Bob, I said I do understand it. Do a search for any SRT post by Mike Brunton. He has explained it in such depth and so frequently I can't bring myself to post it again.

In a nutshell, everyone who couldn't or wouldn't by the GenI or II. According to theory, the GenI and II market is saturated!

 

[BigsViper]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark O:
What ever happened to the "Dodge Different" slogan that they've been using for years????? Simply pathetic (dead serious)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know Mark,.............I know..............

But.........but Hey!!!.........It'll perform better!??!

 

[FASTRNU]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

Regardless of opinion re: good vs bad design, the SRT10 definetly looks more international and less American than the GEN I and IIs did. That is probably why a lot of GEN I and II owners dislike it so much. That is one reason I like it more than the Gen I and IIs. I prefer less gawk factor.
Dave

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

Someone above mentioned that LUTZ did not like the SRT/10. FYI, he DID NOT like the RT/10 eiother when he got his first loook. You can pick up the book GUTS, by Lutz and it is discussed in the chapter titled VIPER.

 

[RoyV101621]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by REVVER:
Regardless of opinion re: good vs bad design, the SRT10 defiantly looks more international and less American than the GEN I and IIs did. That is probably why a lot of GEN I and II owners dislike it so much. That is one reason I like it more than the Gen I and IIs. I prefer less gawk factor.
Dave

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All these comments have missed the reason for the (better) high back design. This car was built to race just like the 427 Cobra. When this car hits the track and starts winning everyone will become enamored. This car is a refined GTS-R stepped up to a competition coupe then backed down to a street car. PVO and Team Viper made the right move. Dodge marketing will be happy, current owners will be happy and the dealers will be happy when a zillion vette owners line up to trade up.

 

[toddt]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

If you're talking about the vette owners I know--forget it. They all think their car is faster than a viper already--see, that's what the dealer told them.

 

[garolittle]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

All of you "Anti-SRT" guys need to face the facts. The SRT will rule the world soon. If you need proof, just try to race it in the 1/4 mile. I just wish I could afford one.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

1Bad....I'm gonna chase you all over this board until you get it. READ my post on the other thread. It's not about aero numbers it's about how well the car will STICK. A formula one car has terrible aero numbers due to the open wheels but it has more grip than any other kind of race car.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee00blacksilverGTS:
1Bad....I'm gonna chase you all over this board until you get it. READ my post on the other thread. It's not about aero numbers it's about how well the car will STICK. A formula one car has terrible aero numbers due to the open wheels but it has more grip than any other kind of race car.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
IMHO the only thing the SRT-10 was designed to " STICK " to is the bottom of one's shoes!

 

[genXgts]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

As far as straight line acceleration, I don't think a GENII with exhaust (50 horse) would be that far out from the SRT. Braking, balance, etc., surely it's improved.......

I've been up to, analyzed and heard the SRT, did an informal at the Detroit auto show on the general public (like 1Bad) and it wasn't pretty, I'll leave it at that, check other posts for bashing of our future "supercar"

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Don\'t let the world pass you by....

I have a few questions for the folks who say the SRT will not perform much better than the GTS.

1) The Gen I Viper made 400hp and 465lb-ft. The GenII Viper made 450hp and 490lb-ft of torque - that is a 50hp improvement and a 25lb-ft improvement. How many people would say the GenII GTS performs "only slightly better" than the GenI? We're talking EASILY over 1/2 second in the 1/4, and about 6 or 7mph in the quarter. The GenI and GenII Vipers are just about dead equal in weight. [50hp more and 25lb-ft more]

2) Look at the C4 vs. the C5. C4's had 300hp, the C5 had 345hp. The C4 weighed (at it's highest) 3300lbs, and the C5 weighs about 3220lbs. "Only" 45hp more and "only" 80lbs less weight...yet the C5 *dominates* the C4 in any performance test. C4's often run about 13.6 1/4's, whereas stock C5's have broken into the 12's. [45hp more and 80lbs lighter]

3) Look at the C5 vs. Z06. The Z06 had "only" 35hp more than the C5, and only about 40lbs lighter than the hardtop, yet it is capable of running *easily* 1/2 second quicker than the C5. [35hp more and 40lbs less weight]

4) Look at the '02 Z06. "Only" 20hp more than the 2001 Z06, yet this car is running 12.1's and 12.2's at 118-119mph. A full .2-.3 faster and easily 4-5mph more trap speed. [only 20hp more]

So for those guys that think the SRT performance will be "marginally" better, can you define marginally? And please explain to me how there are such large performance gaps in the cars I have mentioned and EVEN IN OUR OWN VIPER when small horsepower and weight adjustments are made? Explain it to me, because I must be stupid or something.

The SRT has (on paper) 50hp more than the GTS, and 35lb-ft more torque. That right there is a bigger difference between the GenI and GenII Vipers. PLUS, it has less weight! So how can you NOT think that the car won't have a larger performance gap than the GenI/GenII, or the C4/C5, or the C5/Z06?

I think the people holding onto this belief are in denial. I hear "but my car dynoed at 425rwhp which is already 500hp so I am not worried". Yeah well start worrying. The new car will likely be under-rated too - why woulnd't it be? And from what I hear, it will be MORE responsive to "basic mods" than the GTS ever was... so there goes the "but I have headers and a cat back and smooth tubes, so I will still win". Yeah, right... just like those GenI's with the smooth tubes are eating GTS's up alive right?

I don't think so, Buhler!