Dyno Results with 200 Shot

[HI-NOS-Viper]

So I bought a NX nitrous Kit to add a 200 shot of Nitrous on my 2004 Viper. Other than the nitrous, and a NAV System, the Viper is stock. I used the standard jetting's for fuel for the 200. Well with the 200 jets, the car was running rich, and with the 150, it was running lean, and of course the kit doesn't come with 175 jets.

Well here are the dyno results. It seems that these viper engines torque really loves Nitrous as the 200 shot gave me 265 more RWTQ. The RWHP numbers were a little lower than I expected, but again due to being too rich I'm sure. Well I did end up getting 175 jets and could feel a small difference, but did not have a chance to re dyno it before coming back here to Iraq.

What do you guys think of the dyno, does it look ok? Do you think the stock Intake and exhaust could of been restricting the Horsepower numbers pretty bad as well? How much do you think I would gain with say the K&N intake and Corsa Exhaust with high flow cats? I hope I don't sound like a repeat if others have asked this same question in the same scenario. Thanks for the help guys. I do plan on upgrading the Exhaust when I get back from Iraq, it should sound much better than it does for as much power that it has.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[evomind]

holy cripes...looks pretty damn good to me...
is this safe to run for our engines, assuming the tune is good?

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

I have been doing searches in these forums and was told that 200 is safe to run with a good tune, but anything more than that your pushing it. You need to upgrade at least the stock fuel system after 200. I was expecting between 620 and 640RWHP as stock I hit 434. That may be where it is at now though with the new jets, but not sure. That Torque number is huge though. I didn't think it would get that much. Now the car is garaged until I get back

 

[ILLSMOQ]

So I bought a NX nitrous Kit to add a 200 shot of Nitrous on my 2004 Viper. Other than the nitrous, and a NAV System, the Viper is stock. I used the standard jetting's for fuel for the 200. Well with the 200 jets, the car was running rich, and with the 150, it was running lean, and of course the kit doesn't come with 175 jets.


What do you guys think of the dyno, does it look ok? Do you think the stock Intake and exhaust could of been restricting the Horsepower numbers pretty bad as well? How much do you think I would gain with say the K&N intake and Corsa Exhaust with high flow cats? I hope I don't sound like a repeat if others have asked this same question in the same scenario. Thanks for the help guys. I do plan on upgrading the Exhaust when I get back from Iraq, it should sound much better than it does for as much power that it has.

The graph looks as it should considering the type of system you are using.

Torque goes from 420 to 720 almost immediately....that's a serious jolt in power, gotta wonder how many of those hits the bottom end will take.

I'd look at adding in some sort of progressive system, it would be easier on the motor and easier to get it to hook up to the road.

As for trying to get more HP out of it, opening up the exhaust (headers, 3" non crossover system) will give you a nice chunk of horsepower, I would guess 40 to 50hp. I would stick with the 200 jets on the fuel and keep it safe especialy if you plan to open up the exhaust.

I wouldn't expect the K&N to add much.

 

[Bobpantax]

Good advice from ILLSMOQ - particularly about making it a progressive system. I noticed that the dyno chart shows that the NOS kicked in at 73 MPH. If you have not driven a Viper with NOS before, all the rules about cold tires and snake bite are even more important within the context of NOS hitting. Smooth and consistent wins the race. Abrupt acceleration can easily result in a wreck. Diid you get an A/F reading with the dyno? If so, please post that part of the chart. Also, with NOS I think that you should check your plugs more frequently. Have fun filling those tanks. By the way, I have two ten pound tanks and a bottle blanket in like new condition from my early GTS days before it was supercharged by Sean. If you are interested, PM me.

 

[black mamba1]

The 04's have the piston-breakage problem, especially on higher hp modded engines. I STRONGLY recommend you upgrade your pistons w/ your mods....
When my piston went my car (engine) caught on fire...quick thinking from a good Viper buddy w/ a fire extinguisher saved my car from total ruin.

Change those pistons.....now.

 

[plumcrazy]

my hp number was 577 but my tq was 856..wonder why the diference ?

id assume you would have a little more HP as it comes stock that way

 

[Catwood]

did you pull in 3rd gear or do you have a real short rear end ratio?

 

[Viper X]

This looks like a 3rd gear pull to me. A 4th gear pull would be more comparable to other dyno numbers.

You really need to phase that Nitrous shot in over time in stages and not have it hit all at once or you will have mutiple problems as mentioned above. Loss of traction and then loss of pistons, etc.

I think I might try the 150 shot if I were you and add some exhaust and intake mods. By the numbers you show, you may run out of fuel at the top end with the 200 shot. That would be bad, very bad.

Dan

 

[viper04]

The 04's have the piston-breakage problem, especially on higher hp modded engines. I STRONGLY recommend you upgrade your pistons w/ your mods....
When my piston went my car (engine) caught on fire...quick thinking from a good Viper buddy w/ a fire extinguisher saved my car from total ruin.

Change those pistons.....now.

black mamba1
+1, so true. When I window the block it started a fire through the exhaust, but put itself out. Thanks goodness for warranty and Arrow Racing.

 

[Finally got it !]

my hp number was 577 but my tq was 856..wonder why the diference ?

id assume you would have a little more HP as it comes stock that way

Because you have silver. They are built better!!!!!

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Here is the graph of the AF ratio. This was with the 200 fuel jets. I was told that it was running too rich with the 200 jets. I am new to this so does that graph show correct to what he said? Also here is a stock dyno sheet. When I get back I will probably bump it down to 150, I dont want to have to worry about breaking anything on this car. I was considering a progressive system but just didn't have the time. I was only home for a short period of time and didn't want the car to stay in the shop instead of me enjoying it a little bit. WOW plumcrazy that is a crazy tq number, so is that normal for the torque to be that high even though its just a 200 shot? These engines must really love Nitrous. One of the runs I did hit 775tq.

So do you think I should worry about the bottom end with this kind of power? Good advice. Also good advice on the pistons black mamba1, I dont want to have to put out a fire of any type on my car. I especially dont want to have to rebuild my engine, but shouldn't a good tune allow me to run 200 without having to change the pistons? I have done searches here and have heard of people running 200 shots for years with no problems as long as the tune is dead on. The dyno run was in 4th when the nitrous was turned on.

Here is the Nitrous with AF Reading

You must be registered for see images attach

Here is the Stock Dyno.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

ILLSMOQ what do you mean by " The graph looks as it should considering the type of system you are using."??

 

[ILLSMOQ]

ILLSMOQ what do you mean by " The graph looks as it should considering the type of system you are using."??

Your dyno graph looks as it should - single stage 200 shot/huge hit in power

If your A/F is truly dropping below 10 to 1 then yes you are running very rich, You might want to pick up your own wide band o2 device to get a second opinion on the o2 readings...also when you open up the exhaust it will lean out a bit.

 

[Snakester]

I'd also back off a bit to running a 150 shot. Getting the A/F mix right is key.
You won't have much of a problem if you are running rich, but it's critical not to run too lean.
Outside of the cool looking gigantic power numbers there is the point of what that power is doing to your otherwise stock engine and driveline. At low speeds you will likely spin the rear tires a lot, fry your clutch/tranny, or break your halfshafts/u-joints with that torque if you get any wheel hopping on a quick launch.

One really nice thing with nitrous is that you can ease into the power and rejet as needed.
Just make sure that you dyno test with A/F readings for each set of jets. You can see the value of that freom seeing the lean readings from your 175 shot run.

You might try dynoing with a 100 shot and 150 shot to see how well those jets work with A/F and then drive around a bit with the 100 shot and see how it feels in the car, say on the freeway. It's an impressive kick even with a smaller boost, and you can always bump the power up later.

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

So according to that graph, it was running lean? Sorry but I am new to this and dont fully understand the graphs of the AF ratio. Does the spike up not mean it was running rich, although it does drop after that, but is that not because it was rich(clueless here)

It just seemed weird to me, than again I am a new viper owner, the huge difference between HP and TQ. Gotta love the huge Cubes. I will drop down to a 150 shot when I get back, and get a perfect tune and all. I for sure don't want anything to happen to my car, obvious. Dang does it hit hard though with the 200, going on the on ramp of the highway is just insane. I would never hit the Nitrous in first gear, all I would do mostly is just spin anyway. Either second or third is when I would hit it.

I was running around for a couple days when it was first installed with the 100 shot. I Didn't want to do anything stupid before it was dynoed to see what was going on. For sure good advice guys, the car sure was fun, but unfortunately it will be another 9 months before I will be home to be able to drive it again and get all of this worked out. The first mods I plan on doing when I get back are the corsa exhaust and the K&N, than like you said Snakester maybe the AF will be what it is suppose to. BTW within in one months time, I managed to put 2000 miles on it It came with only 2800, and now has 4800. I love the beast.

One last question is where is there good shops in CO that do good reputable work on Vipers that could give me a dead on tune and all. I was looking around and could not find any that work on high end sports cars, mostly just imports down there. Thanks Guys

 

[plumcrazy]

the cast pistons dont leave any room for mistakes at that power level i think. thats why they are telling you to back it fown a little if ya can. and a wideband is never a bad idea.

and the import guys usually know a lot more about nitrous than the high end car guys do as they use it every day. dont knock the import guys especially when it comes to nitrous

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

I was not talking about import guys in a bad way at all, I'm talking more work than just nitrous. I'm sorry I just don't want any shop to work on my ride, I need a good reputable shop. I just like the idea of shops that specialize more in Vipers like I'm sure there are places all around in CALI and Florida where you have Vipers running around all day there. Of course there aren't as many, if any at all, in CO as you cant run your Viper but 7 or 8 months out of the year anyway if that.

 

[plumcrazy]

im just saying i wouldnt count out any reputable tuners shops...thats all. but i hear ya...

 

[Kenneth Krieger]

Be CAREFUL.....cast pistons don't like lean!!!!!!!! They tend to burn their tops off with lean.......then no more torque monster machine!!!! Sorry bout the rhyme, I just couldn't help myself!!!!

 

[black mamba1]

Change out the stock 04 pistons...change out the stock 04 pistons...change out the stock 04 pistons.....

or...make sure you have a fire extinguisher, and make sure your car is still under warranty if you dont.

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Ok so I will change out the stock pistons. Stock pistons + 200 Nitrous = Bad with possible fire. How is that formula? What kind of pistons should I go with? Car is under Warranty as well. Thanks for the advice guys. If I was to change out the pistons and still wanted to run a 200 shot constantly, what kind of driveline components should I change out? You think I need to change out the clutch and entire tranny, and halfshafts/u-joints? Again I dont run the shot in first gear EVER. Usually later in second and then in third. What if I was to bump it down to a 150 shot, think pistons and driveline components would be necessary still?

 

[black mamba1]

Tators Dodge just built a estimated 600 rwhp naturally aspirated motor for me that can handle approximately 800 rwhp in its strengthen form. Chuck Tator used PC pistons, but he strengthened the entire lower end. Keep in mind your car in its stock form is not designed to handle no where near the hp and torque levels you are producing...700 plus ft-lb of torque will eventually rip apart a stock Gen 3 motor.

The reason we keep harping on the pistons is b/c the 04's have really sh*tty pistons for high hp motors and there have been many piston failures for this model. Chrysler fixed the problem for 05 and 06. Now, keep in mind there are many stock 04 Vipers that are doing fine...but for those w/ mods....well, you know the rest.

Call Chuck Tator at Tators Dodge at 914 763 3136, or the guys at Woodhouse Dodge for exactly what to do to handle all the power you are producing. Or you can listen to the advice of Viper X, Joseph Dell, Plum Crazy, or Wicked (there are numerous others also) in this forum for some really good advice also.

I have been told the stock tranny and half shafts are fine for up to 650 rwhp/675 ft-lb torque or so. More than that and you are on really thin ice my friend.

 

[Bobpantax]

"So according to that graph, it was running lean?"

Yes - assuming the graph is correct. At 72.5 MPH it is 12.8. At 77MPH it is at 15.5. At 81 MPH it is at 16 and then climbs to about 17.4. Take it to someone who knows what he is doing before the engine is damaged. Also, spend the money for the progressive NOS set up. Reducing the shot from 150 to 200 does not really reduce the need for the progressive approach.

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Im sorry, my fault. in the Graph I had the HP and the AF readings. Here is just the AF readings. You were going off of the HP readings. I for sure plan on getting a progressive setup along with nitrous pistons, new Exhaust and Intake when I get back, that will be the first thing that gets done, trust me.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Bobpantax]

Something's wrong with the graph. It looks like your NOS was turned on at 72.5 MPH. The run went to 122.5 MPH. See your other charts. Your A/F goes to zero at 80.5 MPH. It looks like your A/F data is corrupted or was not measured properly to begin with. On the other hand if the blue line is running against the speed axis of the graph ( I cannot tell but it looks like the black speed grid line is absent from about 82 MPH until 121.25 MPH), it would mean that the A/F is all F and too rich from about 80 on.

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

That is correct, he didn't run the NOS from the start, not until 4th gear, then he turned it on. He was saying that it was running RICH, and told me to get the 175 jets for the fuel(dyno run was using the 200 jets). At the time I only had the 150's or the 200's. The next day I had went and picked up the 175's, but again did not get a chance to re dyno. I do see what you are talking about with the black speed grid line being absent now, does that mean that it was just off the chart? Or something from the Dyno malfunctioning? Is it true but I remember reading somewhere in these forums that these Gens of Vipers run a bit rich stock anyway?

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Ill post up my stock without NOS AF Dyno. He said then that it was running rich even stock.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Bobpantax]

"I do see what you are talking about with the black speed grid line being absent now, does that mean that it was just off the chart? Or something from the Dyno malfunctioning?"

I do not know. You need to ask the person who did the dyno run. As for the stock A/F, I think that the SRT gurus put it where it needs to be to ensure a safe engine operating environment in all of the foreseen Viper driving contexts.

 

[plumcrazy]

FYI, whenever you tune on a dyno for nitrous, bring a pocket full of jets. all the sizes in between cause you will likely need them. its costly but i have a ton of different sizes for tuning and always keep them handy too.