SneakyPete
Enthusiast
If he doesn't have any data on hand. Have access to G-TechPro. will measure braking distance and time from 100mph to 0mph with the current EBC Greens then compared to the new pads, if you would like? Thats the best I can do.
EBC Green Stopping power
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
If he doesn't have any data on hand. Have access to G-TechPro. will measure braking distance and time from 100mph to 0mph with the current EBC Greens then compared to the new pads, if you would like? Thats the best I can do.
lleone
Enthusiast
[quoteI was unfortunate enough to have the person I was racing accidently come in my lane. It was at a closed airport runway the local racing club rents out for fun.
[/QUOTE]
Yee-ouch! Glad you're OK. Most autocross type courses around here are too small to get the car up over 65. In fact I rarely run out of first gear (and that's with a 3.55 rear end). I've found the braking better with the Greens than with the stock pads. Better feel, better modulation yields shorter stopping/slowing distance. The stocks are too grippy to handle well when your rotors aren't spinning fast.
[/QUOTE]
Yee-ouch! Glad you're OK. Most autocross type courses around here are too small to get the car up over 65. In fact I rarely run out of first gear (and that's with a 3.55 rear end). I've found the braking better with the Greens than with the stock pads. Better feel, better modulation yields shorter stopping/slowing distance. The stocks are too grippy to handle well when your rotors aren't spinning fast.
Achilles99
Enthusiast
Now THAT seems to be an awesome idea. I'm sure others would appreciate that kind of testing, too...
Nexus-6
Enthusiast
Someone posted here at one point about being able to clearly see green pads when installed - with a red FE, I too don't want that particular xmas combo...
Does anyone have any pics of the greens installed? I can't imagine that they'd be that noticable, if even at all!
Also, for what it's worth...what I want, in order, given what my Snake is used for :
1) Less dust
2) Less squeak
3) Stopping power
If they are close or marginally worse than the stock pads on the street that's fine by me. If we're talking significantly worse, then no - but from the sounds of it, it's not that much of a concern if you're not tracking the car, which I'm not.
Does anyone have any pics of the greens installed? I can't imagine that they'd be that noticable, if even at all!
Also, for what it's worth...what I want, in order, given what my Snake is used for :
1) Less dust
2) Less squeak
3) Stopping power
If they are close or marginally worse than the stock pads on the street that's fine by me. If we're talking significantly worse, then no - but from the sounds of it, it's not that much of a concern if you're not tracking the car, which I'm not.
SingleMalt
Enthusiast
- Joined
- May 15, 2002
- Posts
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No, they're not that noticeable. I've got the greens on my '96 and the only thing you can see, even from up-close, is the black caliper.
One thing I can say about the EBC greens (haven't tried any other compounds) is they do require a warm-up. The cold stopping power of these pads isn't what you will see from a stock pad. I agree with others though; once warmed up a little, they are easier to modulate and are nice and progressive (IMHO).
One thing I can say about the EBC greens (haven't tried any other compounds) is they do require a warm-up. The cold stopping power of these pads isn't what you will see from a stock pad. I agree with others though; once warmed up a little, they are easier to modulate and are nice and progressive (IMHO).
JimT 99RT
Viper Owner
Come on IIeone, 100mph is a little conservative isn’t it, 100mph is just about what you hit at the top of the on-ramp when you get ready to merge…
Nexus-6
Enthusiast
I'll be honest about the stock pads in my '02 - for lack of a better description, they've felt like there is a fine layer of.. well, glass - between the pad and the rotor (under light to medium/heavy application). First time I dipped into them I was really underwhelmed...
Thanks for the heads up on appearance - I really didn't think they could be seen but hey, maybe they reflected in the rim just a tad or something.
Thanks for the heads up on appearance - I really didn't think they could be seen but hey, maybe they reflected in the rim just a tad or something.
Tomcat
Enthusiast
You only see them on the rear and it is noticeable. Spray with high temp paint if it bothers you.
Tom
Tom
I agree with Tom. The rear pads are the only ones visible. I did not paint them before installing and they do look odd. I have the black phenolic caliper covers (windbreaker comments coming!!!) and the green still shows up strong. Kinda wish I had painted them before installing. Not worth the trip to remove, paint and replace.
The difference in stopping power is noticeable, but not a strong enough reason to prevent use. I am just much more aware of the pedal effort needed when the pads are cold. Under operating temperature (normal street driving) the difference is not significant.
I will have to wait and see with the SRT if it is worth changing the pads for the dust reason. The wheels appear to be more difficult to clean than my '95s (1996 style wheel).
The difference in stopping power is noticeable, but not a strong enough reason to prevent use. I am just much more aware of the pedal effort needed when the pads are cold. Under operating temperature (normal street driving) the difference is not significant.
I will have to wait and see with the SRT if it is worth changing the pads for the dust reason. The wheels appear to be more difficult to clean than my '95s (1996 style wheel).
onerareviper
Enthusiast
O.K., You guys are beginning to scare me...
I need new brakes and was 99% sure EBC greens would suffice. (No dust/squeak, progressive feel...) I don't like the fact that stock pads are not progressive, lock easily below 60 MPH, squeak, and create lots of dust. On the other hand, I know they are going to stop me safely from 'I really shouldn't be going this fast' speeds. Bottom line: Are EBC greens capable of stopping a Viper from 180 MPH, hypothetically speaking?
P.S. - No hate-mail please. This is only a 'hypothetical' question.....
I need new brakes and was 99% sure EBC greens would suffice. (No dust/squeak, progressive feel...) I don't like the fact that stock pads are not progressive, lock easily below 60 MPH, squeak, and create lots of dust. On the other hand, I know they are going to stop me safely from 'I really shouldn't be going this fast' speeds. Bottom line: Are EBC greens capable of stopping a Viper from 180 MPH, hypothetically speaking?
P.S. - No hate-mail please. This is only a 'hypothetical' question.....
NJVIPER
Enthusiast
Let's ask the alternative question:
Is there another type of brakepad that does not sacrifice performance and additionally reduces/eliminates dust and/or squeal?
Of course, actual use rather than opinion would be best.
Is there another type of brakepad that does not sacrifice performance and additionally reduces/eliminates dust and/or squeal?
Of course, actual use rather than opinion would be best.
I'm not sure if I can tell in absolute terms whether the greens stop better or worse than the stock pads I had, but they sure don't lock up the rears nearly as easily. In the real world I'll take a more progressive pad even with slightly worse stopping power over locked wheels anyday.
lleone
Enthusiast
Hey! Have you been following me again?
...lol
If you dont go 180mph 99% of the time then you're OK 99% of the time !!!
Typical friction levels of OE pads vary from .25u to .35u .. EBC claims .46u
Usually called Brake Torque. When EBCs were first released, I think King posted the de-cel Gs off of a G-tech and claimed a 7% better negative G. Many European tests claim (in EBC literature) 'the grippiest compound on the market'
EBC Green is effictive from Cold, and needs no warm up per EBC.
THIS DEPENDS ON:
-Uniform rotor surfaces, not badly worn rotors with new pads installed.
-Proper rotor surface prep with emory cloth, Scotch-Brite pad, steel wool or sandpaper of any used rotor surface. The old carbon pad binder glazes the Aramid fibers and can stay there hundreds of miles, diminishing braking.
-EBC Greens perform poorly above 700 degrees. One stop from 150 would not likley hit 700 deegrees. They still STOP but they almost evaporate!
When we have diagnosed the few (3) complaints, it always boiled down to "No, I took a shortcut and did NOT scuff the used rotors first."
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Hypothetically yes - once. But don't try it without fresh pads and plan on changing them afterwards.
With all that's been said, I want to add that Steve Pasztor at www.GreatBrakes.com will give you some great customer service if you wanna sort through these issues.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Thanks fella's. Lots of good info. here....
The last thing I want is my gravestone to read, 'And all he wanted was no squeaks and clean dubs'.
Therefore, I think I will play it safe and go with a squeally, dusty, brake monster. Any advice?
The last thing I want is my gravestone to read, 'And all he wanted was no squeaks and clean dubs'.
Therefore, I think I will play it safe and go with a squeally, dusty, brake monster. Any advice?
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Brakeman 3s are good stoppers, but dusty and squealy.
Don't get me wrong, the EBC greens are a good pad for garage queens and posers, and the reds are very similar, very little dust or squeal, and won't wear as much as the greens, but I think I brake too aggressively for them.
Contact Steve at GreatBrakes. He carries Brakeman and EBC.
Wing King
Enthusiast
Wow! I’m off the board for a day and some things run amuck! Time to correct some HUGE mis-guiding information going on here about EBC brake pads! Pretty much the only CORRECT info has been posted by Steve Pasztor and JonB.
Kevlar GREENS: A great street/autocross pad...... as JonB accurately quoted the friction coefficients....... and actually higher than factory pads. The vast majority of users report a much better control feel of the brake pedal to help avoid lockup in panic stop situations. Personally, I feel WAY safer on EBC Greens than any other pad I’ve ever used for street driving, OR, even track use where I only need them for a couple of laps...... like at VOI events. The thing about the Greens people need to understand, is that they are NOT DESIGNED for high heat situations exceeding 900 degrees. Are they safe for high speed stopping? Absolutely...... as long as you are not going to immediately start back up again and do the same 150+ mph panic stop all over again, and again, etc., building high temps without ever giving them time to cool...... like at a road course. But, all the great stopping power, quiet operation and extremely LOW dust, does come at some trade-off........ we find they are generally wearing at only about 75-90% of factory pad mileage durability, given the same driving conditions for both (but, not a bad tradeoff when you compare the price). Further, they require a bit more “attention” to their installation. Every case we have ever seen of these pads not performing as good or better than advertised has been due to either improper installation, ignoring the advise about scuffing and incompatability of the Kevlar vs Carbon/Metallic resins, installation on used rotors with too much scoring, or just not giving them a chance to bed in according to instructions. The good news is that over time (usually a few hundred to 1,000 miles) they will eventually wear in to the existing rotor surface and deliver continually better performance. Finally, EBC uses a scale of 1 to 10 to rate their pad durability against their BLUE, highest wear pure racing pad. They wear rate the Greens at 4 on their 10 scale.
REDS: Unfortunately, Chuck B and several others got sets of the very first Reds we were ever able to get brought into the USA in Viper sizes, where the pad material was fine, but just not durable enough. The current re-formulation is now working great and Steve at GreatBrakes is taking steps to get Chuck a new set of pads to play with. EBC rates them at 6 on the 10 scale, but the temp range is now up to 1,100 degrees. Actually, these are described by EBC as designed for “faster street use” or “entry level” track day use. They have approximately the same friction characteristics as a factory pad, and my personal experience with them is that I consider the recent Red re-formulation to be the most similar of all these ranges to our stock pads.
YELLOW: Now you are getting into true “track use only” territory. Heat range is all the way up to 1,400 degrees and they are a 7 on the wear scale. Viper Days championships have been won using this range pad. Minimum temp starts up at 100 degrees before they become completely effective, so we don’t recommend this pad for the street, although we know guys still drive back and forth to the track on them all the time.
BLUE: Are you really a monster with your brakes at the track? This pad is for you. Also good to 1,400 degrees and a full 10 on the 10 scale. Some track users even report it’s just “too much” pad for them, because it seems to like “pre heating” taps on the pedal after a long road course straight.
I’m sorry, but there IS NO FREE lunch. There is no perfect all-around brake pad, just like there is no “business time machine” if you’ve ever seen that IBM commercial on TV. Further, we all have widely different driving styles, so there CAN’T be a single perfect pad for each one of us. NEVER take other people’s advice for pad selection who don’t know how you drive. Read what a manufacturer says about their products, judge your own needs, and make your best guess to start with. Then, that’s what testing and gaining experience is all about. You will eventually learn what is best for YOU.
The two things I like best about EBC is that they actively publicize all their specs and recommendations so the user has a good guide to start with, and then also the “bang for the buck” price. I’m also a real big fan of Brakeman and Pagid, if money or dust are no concern. But the bottom line here is that EBC makes good pads. For the last 20 years they have even been the dominant force in Motorcycle brakes in the entire world. They sell millions and millions of pads for every kind of use including planes, trains, trucks and automobiles in 52 countries. Do you really think they are going to sell you a pad for your Viper that doesn’t perform as advertised, or isn’t safe? Is it possible there might be a good reason that these Kevlar pads have won awards in Europe and become so popular in the Viper Nation? Do a search for this subject on the Viper board over the last couple of years and see what comes up. Anyway, feel free to contact Steve Pasztor, the authorized USA distributor at GreatBrakes for any additional technical help on concerns, or Steve can recommend a dealer or respected tuner in your local area to work with.
Oh yea..... one more thing....... Chuck, I ain't no dang "garage queen" or "poser", but I still LOVE my EBC Greens on the street!!!!
Kevlar GREENS: A great street/autocross pad...... as JonB accurately quoted the friction coefficients....... and actually higher than factory pads. The vast majority of users report a much better control feel of the brake pedal to help avoid lockup in panic stop situations. Personally, I feel WAY safer on EBC Greens than any other pad I’ve ever used for street driving, OR, even track use where I only need them for a couple of laps...... like at VOI events. The thing about the Greens people need to understand, is that they are NOT DESIGNED for high heat situations exceeding 900 degrees. Are they safe for high speed stopping? Absolutely...... as long as you are not going to immediately start back up again and do the same 150+ mph panic stop all over again, and again, etc., building high temps without ever giving them time to cool...... like at a road course. But, all the great stopping power, quiet operation and extremely LOW dust, does come at some trade-off........ we find they are generally wearing at only about 75-90% of factory pad mileage durability, given the same driving conditions for both (but, not a bad tradeoff when you compare the price). Further, they require a bit more “attention” to their installation. Every case we have ever seen of these pads not performing as good or better than advertised has been due to either improper installation, ignoring the advise about scuffing and incompatability of the Kevlar vs Carbon/Metallic resins, installation on used rotors with too much scoring, or just not giving them a chance to bed in according to instructions. The good news is that over time (usually a few hundred to 1,000 miles) they will eventually wear in to the existing rotor surface and deliver continually better performance. Finally, EBC uses a scale of 1 to 10 to rate their pad durability against their BLUE, highest wear pure racing pad. They wear rate the Greens at 4 on their 10 scale.
REDS: Unfortunately, Chuck B and several others got sets of the very first Reds we were ever able to get brought into the USA in Viper sizes, where the pad material was fine, but just not durable enough. The current re-formulation is now working great and Steve at GreatBrakes is taking steps to get Chuck a new set of pads to play with. EBC rates them at 6 on the 10 scale, but the temp range is now up to 1,100 degrees. Actually, these are described by EBC as designed for “faster street use” or “entry level” track day use. They have approximately the same friction characteristics as a factory pad, and my personal experience with them is that I consider the recent Red re-formulation to be the most similar of all these ranges to our stock pads.
YELLOW: Now you are getting into true “track use only” territory. Heat range is all the way up to 1,400 degrees and they are a 7 on the wear scale. Viper Days championships have been won using this range pad. Minimum temp starts up at 100 degrees before they become completely effective, so we don’t recommend this pad for the street, although we know guys still drive back and forth to the track on them all the time.
BLUE: Are you really a monster with your brakes at the track? This pad is for you. Also good to 1,400 degrees and a full 10 on the 10 scale. Some track users even report it’s just “too much” pad for them, because it seems to like “pre heating” taps on the pedal after a long road course straight.
I’m sorry, but there IS NO FREE lunch. There is no perfect all-around brake pad, just like there is no “business time machine” if you’ve ever seen that IBM commercial on TV. Further, we all have widely different driving styles, so there CAN’T be a single perfect pad for each one of us. NEVER take other people’s advice for pad selection who don’t know how you drive. Read what a manufacturer says about their products, judge your own needs, and make your best guess to start with. Then, that’s what testing and gaining experience is all about. You will eventually learn what is best for YOU.
The two things I like best about EBC is that they actively publicize all their specs and recommendations so the user has a good guide to start with, and then also the “bang for the buck” price. I’m also a real big fan of Brakeman and Pagid, if money or dust are no concern. But the bottom line here is that EBC makes good pads. For the last 20 years they have even been the dominant force in Motorcycle brakes in the entire world. They sell millions and millions of pads for every kind of use including planes, trains, trucks and automobiles in 52 countries. Do you really think they are going to sell you a pad for your Viper that doesn’t perform as advertised, or isn’t safe? Is it possible there might be a good reason that these Kevlar pads have won awards in Europe and become so popular in the Viper Nation? Do a search for this subject on the Viper board over the last couple of years and see what comes up. Anyway, feel free to contact Steve Pasztor, the authorized USA distributor at GreatBrakes for any additional technical help on concerns, or Steve can recommend a dealer or respected tuner in your local area to work with.
Oh yea..... one more thing....... Chuck, I ain't no dang "garage queen" or "poser", but I still LOVE my EBC Greens on the street!!!!
Nexus-6
Enthusiast
Thanks for great write up wingking!
One last stupid "poser" question and I'm done - I'm install EBC greens up front, leaving the rear pads stock. Problem? Bad idea? No worries?
One last stupid "poser" question and I'm done - I'm install EBC greens up front, leaving the rear pads stock. Problem? Bad idea? No worries?
Thanks All...especially JonB and Wing King.
Snake Bitten
Enthusiast
I ran like that all summer last year...even though the rear pads were in the trunk...no problem at all...the rear wheels will actually have more dust than the front...I am putting the rear pads in before the snow melts...ie...no time soon!Thanks for great write up wingking!
One last stupid "poser" question and I'm done - I'm install EBC greens up front, leaving the rear pads stock. Problem? Bad idea? No worries?
slaughterj
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2001
- Posts
- 5,266
- Reaction score
- 0
That's been my experience as well - and felt much better than Brakeman 3's on the street too!
What is factory pad mileage durability? I've had my EBC Greens on for ~25k miles and still work well. (Didn't expect that kind of durability, still got a fresh set of fronts to replace them with...)
Oh yea..... one more thing....... Chuck, I ain't no dang "garage queen" or "poser", but I still LOVE my EBC Greens on the street!!!!
Me too!
shifter
Enthusiast
Ditto SlaughterJ. Had greens for years now, better brake feel, can bring 'em right to the edge of lock, and can still lock 'em up, any more grip is only wasted rubber. Minimal dust. Good at all temps seen on the street.
Pad life questions make me smile. The EBC green pads are probably one of the cheapest replacement parts on the car, cheaper than stock pads. They can be changed by anyone with some common sense and a manual. Takes less than 60 minutes for all 4. Pads are important, you should change them more often than necessary. You should also inspect them frequently. It's easy, and it's so critical to safety when you have all that power to play with. (Can you tell I've grazed due to pad failure?)
For the track I use Brakeman with seperate rotors. Change them as a set, no burnishing of the rotors or bed-in time. Racing, use a pad for racing. Street driving, use a pad for street driving. At a relatively tight track my brake rotor temps were 1300 degrees. That would waste a street pad in seconds. For the low cost of pads (compared to the cost of ownership), why even risk it?
Pad life questions make me smile. The EBC green pads are probably one of the cheapest replacement parts on the car, cheaper than stock pads. They can be changed by anyone with some common sense and a manual. Takes less than 60 minutes for all 4. Pads are important, you should change them more often than necessary. You should also inspect them frequently. It's easy, and it's so critical to safety when you have all that power to play with. (Can you tell I've grazed due to pad failure?)
For the track I use Brakeman with seperate rotors. Change them as a set, no burnishing of the rotors or bed-in time. Racing, use a pad for racing. Street driving, use a pad for street driving. At a relatively tight track my brake rotor temps were 1300 degrees. That would waste a street pad in seconds. For the low cost of pads (compared to the cost of ownership), why even risk it?
Motor City Mad Man
Enthusiast
I installed some EBC greens as well as new rotors on all 4 wheels last year. I am happy with the performance, there is significantly less dust, and I have no squeel. I also painted the green pads red to match the color I painted my calipers using hi temp caliper paint, so I don't have that x-mas color effect. Call me a poser, cause I am, but it is no garage queen either. The front brake pads can't really be seen under the calipers, but I painted them a little anyways.
Also, I painted the rear pads but first I covered the face of the brake pads with masking tape and covered the other side with tape also. Then I set the brake pad on my rear calipers and used an exacto knife to cut-away the tape on the back side of the pad on the areas that would be exposed to view once the pad was installed. I left the part of the pads that touches the calipers and pistons covered with masking tape because I wasn't sure if the paint might make the pad stick to the caliper and pistons or not. I did this because I had read one post where someone painted their brake pads and the next time they went to change the pads, they were stuck to the calipers. I scraped away any paint that was on the area of the pads that slid against the caliper and did the same thing on my calipers after I painted them. Finally I used that anti-squeel lubricant and installed everything.
Brakes feel great, very minimal dust, no squeel. They also look great too. Of course this may all be from my prep work. Since they were new rotors I didn't have to worry about cleaning the old pad compound off as was stated earlier in this post. I agree that it may be the reason some people have problems after installing them on used rotors (you need to clean them off as Jon B. stated).
Also, I painted the rear pads but first I covered the face of the brake pads with masking tape and covered the other side with tape also. Then I set the brake pad on my rear calipers and used an exacto knife to cut-away the tape on the back side of the pad on the areas that would be exposed to view once the pad was installed. I left the part of the pads that touches the calipers and pistons covered with masking tape because I wasn't sure if the paint might make the pad stick to the caliper and pistons or not. I did this because I had read one post where someone painted their brake pads and the next time they went to change the pads, they were stuck to the calipers. I scraped away any paint that was on the area of the pads that slid against the caliper and did the same thing on my calipers after I painted them. Finally I used that anti-squeel lubricant and installed everything.
Brakes feel great, very minimal dust, no squeel. They also look great too. Of course this may all be from my prep work. Since they were new rotors I didn't have to worry about cleaning the old pad compound off as was stated earlier in this post. I agree that it may be the reason some people have problems after installing them on used rotors (you need to clean them off as Jon B. stated).
Reposting Achilles99 question...
What is a "cross-hatch" pattern? Does that mean from the inside of the rotor to the outide, or more like a series of X's across the rotor service? I'm also curious to hear whether or not they need to be "cleaned" after the prep.
It was suggested to me to use the 3M Brake Rotor Surfacing Kit on a wheel. Better than a sanding block?
What is a "cross-hatch" pattern? Does that mean from the inside of the rotor to the outide, or more like a series of X's across the rotor service? I'm also curious to hear whether or not they need to be "cleaned" after the prep.
It was suggested to me to use the 3M Brake Rotor Surfacing Kit on a wheel. Better than a sanding block?
TZL
Enthusiast
stainless lines
for all those that complain of low stopping power and too soft a brake pedal on their EBC greens....are you running Stainless brake lines?
does that help the "soft" brake feel and power any?
thanks
ting
for all those that complain of low stopping power and too soft a brake pedal on their EBC greens....are you running Stainless brake lines?
does that help the "soft" brake feel and power any?
thanks
ting
KenH
Enthusiast
95Viper,
By crosshatch, they are referring to a series of X's across the rotor sort of like you get when honing a cylinder wall. I would assume (but not sure) that it is to ensure the best possible pad break-in. The 3M discs seem to be the preferred choice. I couldn't find them at the time, so I used 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper and some water to do mine by hand, sanding in an orbital fashion. I ended up with more or less a cross-hatch pattern and it seemed to work fine.
Since I started this thread and it continues to live, I guess I should update my experience with the EBC Greens. My initial concern was mostly related to the difference in amount of pedal pressure they required to get close to max braking as compared to stock based on a panic situation. Now that I am used to the EBC Greens, I find the progressive feel they provide to give better braking control than the stockers. I believe the level of maximum braking is probably about the same, but I am less likely to overbrake than I was before. The brake dust and squeal continue to be absent after about 1500 miles of driving. I probably have less total dust in 1500 miles than I would have had in <50 miles with the stockers. I consider the switch to have been well worth it. Just wish I would have painted those back ones now. Time to get some rear caliper covers I guess.
--- Ken
By crosshatch, they are referring to a series of X's across the rotor sort of like you get when honing a cylinder wall. I would assume (but not sure) that it is to ensure the best possible pad break-in. The 3M discs seem to be the preferred choice. I couldn't find them at the time, so I used 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper and some water to do mine by hand, sanding in an orbital fashion. I ended up with more or less a cross-hatch pattern and it seemed to work fine.
Since I started this thread and it continues to live, I guess I should update my experience with the EBC Greens. My initial concern was mostly related to the difference in amount of pedal pressure they required to get close to max braking as compared to stock based on a panic situation. Now that I am used to the EBC Greens, I find the progressive feel they provide to give better braking control than the stockers. I believe the level of maximum braking is probably about the same, but I am less likely to overbrake than I was before. The brake dust and squeal continue to be absent after about 1500 miles of driving. I probably have less total dust in 1500 miles than I would have had in <50 miles with the stockers. I consider the switch to have been well worth it. Just wish I would have painted those back ones now. Time to get some rear caliper covers I guess.
--- Ken
