Eliminating noises we don't want... a tech question for you.

[jwwiii]

Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

Hello;

Please do think about this before you tell me it's a mistake.

I purchased an Audi "Allroad" Turbo two months ago, and was wanting to eliminate as much "Road noise/Tire Noise" as possible. I want to hear the engine as much as you do, but all of the wind, tire, zzzzzz, white noise you get with any car with aggressive tires (track or all-terrain) is NOT my idea of "good" sound. The Audi is a very well made car, but the "Allroad" is a bit less "aero" than other Audi models.


So, I remember having Ziebart apply their "Sound Shield" stuff to my Mazda RX-4 back in the 70's and it REALLY worked to lessen road noise, rock clanks/clunks (no, I don't drive my Vipers on gravel!). I went to Ziebart, and had them apply this stuff TO MY WHEEL WELLS AND NON SERVICE NEEDING PARTS OF THE UNDERBODY. I am VERY pleased with the results! Smells nice too.

THE QUESTION: Do you Guru's see any harm or detriment (besides weight) to applying this product to the SRT wheel wells, and parts that don't have anything a Tech needs to get to? The "Ground Effects" aero pan would probably benefit as well.

The Ziebart stuff DOES work, and cost about $150. It dries to a flexible, kind of bumpy texture (air I imagine). It is sticky like tar for about 24 hours, and Ziebart said the effectiveness would greatly improve over a 2-week period. They were right on. My Vipers don't see salt, so corrosion is not my concern.

This is something that I think would be an enhancement to the SRT or any car. I want sound, not noise. If you think about it, this allows us to hear MORE VIPER, and less BAD ROAD.

Please let me know if you see any harm in doing this treatment.

thanks as always,

Jim

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

does the stuff spray flat? If not I could see it disturbing the aerodynamics underneath the car. Also the idea of spraying anything puts this thought of a big gooey mess on the underside of the car which would be a total pain in the butt if you wanted to take it off. Also, this viper is a convert, which means it will obviously be more prone to outside noises, especially with the huge meats it rides on.

In my junior opinion, if I wanted more engine noise I'd just cut the mufflers off.

 

[Dixter]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

I don't want to be too mean but... if this is your first Audi...
then I'd suggest you sell it ...

Had one.. never again

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

Might want to think about resale, it would kill it for me! Don't mean to sound rude, but you asked for opinions, I think it is a terrible idea, on the Viper, I really believe it would be bad for aerodynamics as Craig said, they spent a lot of time describing what they did for aero. and the number of hours in the wind tunnel, unless this surface is polished smooth it's gonna disrupt aero.

 

[jwwiii]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

Thanks for you honest comments;

First off; Dixter, I have owned four Audi's (all Quattro models) and they have all been very solid, excellent cars. The Allroad is a bit bigger and more versatile. Sorry you didn't like yours.

Lee and Craig; Let me explain that the Ziebart stuff is Black in color, sprays on smooth, and then gets "slightly" bumpy as it cures to a firm, durable insulating coating. I comes off easily with a simple variety of products that you would have in your garage.

I fully understand your concern for resale and aerodynamics. My thoughts have been to just do the wheelwells (plastic stuff anyway unless changed). Ziebart says it is easily removed in their shop, so very little concern for re-sale if that is true for a small fee.

Aerodynamically; I am not a qualified experienced racer, so I probably would NEVER even feel the effects which I would think would be minimal in just the wheelwells. This doesn't mean I don't want to race my Viper, it is just that I haven't had the experience available conveniently. I can definitely see that insulating the aero "floorpan" would cause the most ill effect.

After applying it to my Audi (minimal- just wheelwells, other small spots) I can say it was a noticable improvement from tire noise and relatively poor roads. You are absolutely right that we have convertables here, and huge performance tires= noise regardless.

If I do it, I will post pics and research the "removeability" of the stuff. It is not expensive; and, if easily removeable would actually "preserve" the wheelwells and be a good thing for resale.

Thanks, and keep responding if my info here spurs more thoughts or questions.

Jim

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

One final comment as it relates to aero. Have you ever seen any "slightly bumpy" airplane surfaces. Nuff said. If you really wanted a very quiet convertible I think you should consider Mercedes or similar. You may be buying the wrong car for what you want.

 

[George Murray]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

"Slightly bumpy" aerodynamic surfaces? It's an understatement when applied to the Soviet-built fighter planes of the 1950s until the emd of the USSR. I've seen many MiG-19, 21, 23, 25 and 29 aircraft up close, as well as SU-27s. The last two (MiG-29 and SU-27) weren't so bad, but man...those earlier MiGs (21 and above all supersonic) have some ghetto-*** surfaces...

So, don't Ziebart your Viper wheel wells, unless you want people to think the Mikoyan Design Bureau designed and built it!

 

[Bob Woodhouse]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

Your question, does undercoating make sense for sound reduction. The answer in my experience is yes. We have been spraying sound shield and other undercoating chemicals for 27 years in our dealerships. I find strong opinions on this. I also witness, as you did, some dba noise reduction as advertised. As to aero reduction: seriously doubt that, especially in a wheel well. The bottom of most cars are aero dirty more than this material could contribute, including Viper although I wouldn't spray a Viper on the bottom side. I think I would remove all four wheel well surrounds and shoot them on the back side if noise reduction is my objective.

 

[SRT10]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by George Murray:
"Slightly bumpy" aerodynamic surfaces? It's an understatement when applied to the Soviet-built fighter planes of the 1950s until the emd of the USSR. I've seen many MiG-19, 21, 23, 25 and 29 aircraft up close, as well as SU-27s. The last two (MiG-29 and SU-27) weren't so bad, but man...those earlier MiGs (21 and above all supersonic) have some ghetto-*** surfaces...

So, don't Ziebart your Viper wheel wells, unless you want people to think the Mikoyan Design Bureau designed and built it!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

George, I was impressed with the SU-27s' a few years back. Are they still building them?

 

[I Ben Therbefor]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

You will muck up the aerodynamics. Polishing the inside of the wheel wells is an old racers trick from the early salt flat days and NASCAR, still in use today. There's an awful lot of turblence in the wheel wells and some pressure build up, which is why you see the slots at the top of the fender line on many racing cars including the Viper. At the salt flats they even polish the car with WD-40 but that's to keep the salt from sticking during the run.

In your case, unless you're trying for maximum speed, I doubt if you'll notice the impact on the aerodynamics. You might try being sensitive to the balance of the car after the substance is applied.

Another approach is to increase the engine and exhaust presence by removing some insulation or going to a different exhaust. In case of removing the insulation, be aware that noise and heat are many times handled by the same barrier so you could be setting yourself up for a lot of hurt and damage from the heat. As for exhaust noise, you have the limitations of the law, although I've never understood how cars turned into boom boxes can get away with their db level. I can hear the boom before I hear the car!

One more trick, some company is messing around with a sound system that lets you play engine noise through the stero when you want more ambiance. I guess it had to come.

Actually, run with the window down and enjoy it the way it is, is probably the best answer.

 

[I Ben Therbefor]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

The SU-27 is still in production and export in many variations. One of the best export products they have. India and China are two countries that fly them.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

Mess up the aerodynamics? In America, you can only go so fast for so long. If I was running near 150mph for hours on end as I do in Germany, there may be a slight difference. Here in the USA you never sustain above 100mph. 60-80mph would make no difference. It's like saying your car will have a 2mph higher top speed if you washed it first. Big deal.

 

[VIPERGILLY]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

all you have to do is find out what the hertz are for that noise and get something to match that same hertz output and the noise is gone. see lexus.

 

[Dixter]

Re: Eliminating noises we don\'t want... a tech question for you.

Well not quite.... you sample the frequency of the noise
and invert the frequency and amplitude then add it back to
the noise to cancel the noise....