Encounter with Z06

[DEVILDOG]

Wait a minute...He threw in a lot of legalese and pros and cons, that's what lawyers do but at the bottom he really summed it up and agreed. He said relevant to the issue...

"If the dealership does NOT disclose this, and the consumer buys it unknowingly, then the proverbial feces hits the fan. It is fraud on the consumer.
It is a good thing, however, that this thread was started. The buyer of this car may be more aware of what is going on."

O.K. my bad...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. It just seems to me his main concern is the law and how it applies versus what it is there to protect.

 

[Custom Builder]

I would have returned them a smoldering yellow hunk of fiberglass. I would love to spend 10 minutes alone in devil doggs viper spinning cookies til that hideous wing fell off.

 

[DEVILDOG]

I would have returned them a smoldering yellow hunk of fiberglass. I would love to spend 10 minutes alone in devil doggs viper spinning cookies til that hideous wing fell off.

Oh boy...we get to hear from another abuser of other people's property. BTW, the wing has been to 198 MPH so I doubt you have the ability to make it fall off. I'm glad it irritates you! BTW, has your under-performing, POS TNT package blown up yet?

 

[Big Medicine]

What does any of this have to do with RT10/ GTS Discussions?

 

[big-n-italian]

boy was i missing a good thread!

i didnt read this thread initially because i thought it was just another corvette thread.

my philosophy is - if you dont own it, dont touch it without the owners permission. peoples disrespect of others peoples property is why chads viper got keyed and Phils viper just got egged.

obviously if the car was being transported, there was permission to drive the car on and off the truck. but anything beyond that including "tearing down the street", is just wrong.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

I think that there is alot of jumping to conclusions here. First, we do NOT know who owns the car (unless I am mistaken). At this point, it could be GM, the dealership or the intended ultimate owner of the vehicle.

There are so many possibilities here, it just boggles the mind. Most likely, the dealership owns the car and this was a transport individual or someone working at the dealership. The dealership has given them limited contractual rights to deliver the vehicle (hypothetically). These rights may include allowing the individual to drive the car!

We must remember, that the ultimate consumer HAS NOT BEEN HARMED AT THIS POINT (if the owner is the dealership or GM). The dealership is required to get this person a new vehicle. The ultimate consumer entered into a contract with the dealership for delivery on a date certain.

If the dealership does not deliver, they are in default and the consumer can get redress for the time delay. If the dealership discloses this joyride, the consumer can either accept it and buy the vehicle, or even try to get an increased warranty for the vehicle.

If the dealership does NOT disclose this, and the consumer buys it unknowingly, then the proverbial feces hits the fan. It is fraud on the consumer. I think that we all need to take a breather here.

It is a good thing, however, that this thread was started. Aside from the unfriendliness between the members, the buyer of this car may be more aware of what is going on.

Before the VCA takes any stance on this issue, all the facts should be known. Just my two cents.

Thats EXACTLY what I was gonna say. Except for the fact that I don't have a clue in hell as to what he just said

 

[PatentLaw]

Wow....Well, I have to admit, taking this "We hate lawyers" commentary is a bit much. It actually is getting worse on the website. You are entitled to your opinion. I was just trying to point out that it may not be this guys car yet. I think that the dealership has to disclose this, as a reasonable consumer would want to know it.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of a doubt, however. If it were my car, I would be PO'ed. The dealership would have to make it right.

 

[SSSSE YA]

The dealership would have to make it right.

A brand new Z06 and a free tank of Gas...

 

[Warfang]

I was half expecting the Hen**sy badging to be starred out.

 

[Cop Magnet]

Patent Law has some interesting points. I suppose a lot of it has to do with payment and delivery. At the time the client pays for the vehicle, or signs the contract, the attendees to the car are responsible to him. They are only holding the car he owns till he picks it up, or has it delivered. In that period, anything unusual which happens should be disclosed to the owner. Granted, he has the right to inspect the car, again, at delivery and call the deal off if there is anything odd, like excess mileage or damage. However, most people assume the car as delivered is the car as seen on the showroom floor. Once the buyer accepts delivery, any claims become very difficult to support.

On the other hand, a car on the dealer lot is open game. Anyone at the dealership could be doing whatever they want with it, realistically. Think about the abuse a half a dozen thrill-seeking test drivers would cause.

The difference is this car was bought and payed for, and the buyer was only expecting delivery. This should not have been an "unknown commodity" still subject to the whims of just anyone eager for a test drive.

Now I've seen cars on the dealer lot that were "sold" and I have still been allowed to test drive them. So there's some leeway here. I don't think there is a reasonable expectation, however, that the transporter would have the same kind of access to the car. Bottom line is, if you buy a car--take it home. Don't leave it sitting around or have thrid parties pick it up, hold it, drop it off, etc. You are only asking for trouble.

 

[big-n-italian]

<< On the other hand, a car on the dealer lot is open game. >>

this sentence makes me a little nervous.

i say that because i feel that the car still belongs to somebody whether it be the dealer or the manufacturer. i think past habits of "tearing down streets" is one of the reasons why dealerships have sales people go along for test drives nowadays. (at least that was one of the reasons at the dealership i worked at.) a reasonable test drive is expected, but anything beyond that is certainly not preferred.

the tuner i just left had burnout marks all over the front of the shop. he told me that this is how he tested the cars when they were finished. our relationship was over at that point. again, a reasonable test drive is expected, but anything beyond that is certainly not preferred by me, and you better darn well have my permission (or whoever it is), first, before you do anything above reasonable with anything of mine.

if i as the owner, want to tear up my car, or my house, or my tools, or whatever, then that is MY CHOICE, not yours.

 

[carguy07]

<< On the other hand, a car on the dealer lot is open game. >>

this sentence makes me a little nervous.


I don't know, you toss me the keys to a demo and it's on!

Assumption of risk on their part.

 

[EllowViper]

"Demo-strator" or "Demo-lition"...Sure, I'll take the demo out for a "spin", but I'll buy THAT ONE over there in the plastic wrapper.

 

[Cop Magnet]

At the time of the test drive, the dealership owns the car. In giving the access to the keys to the salespeople, they are making it "open game". Remember, the salespeople have a slightly different agenda than the car lot; they work on commission and a sale is the bottom line. The dealer has to worry about reputation, community perception, after-purchase satisfaction, warranty issues, lemon laws, and all kinds of things the salespeople don't care so much about. So they have a built-in incentive to let you get a little happy in the car. There is a slight risk of accident, but the bigger risk is to the ultimate buyer who gets a car somewhat abused. I've been on test drives with and without a salesperson in the car. They let you do whatever you want.

It's exactly like EllowViper says, I'll drive this one, but give me the car with zero miles rolling off the truck tomorrow.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

the tuner i just left had burnout marks all over the front of the shop. he told me that this is how he tested the cars when they were finished. our relationship was over at that point.

In all honesty, if I just had a tuner do some major engine upgrades to my car, I would almost prefer him to do a "hard" testdrive of it. If anything is incorrect, I'd rather it blow up with him than me. It takes away the possibility of him trying to say it was MY driving that caused the problem and you can feel better knowing the supercharger/twin turbos arent gonna crap out on you the 1st time you "get on it". I worked with a guy who would drive cars pretty hard after he did any engine work (timing belt, new engine, etc) to them. His theory was "I'd rather the engine blow up with me in the shop/testdrive than with them going down interstate". Now if you just go in for routine work, a hard test drive is not necessary and I'd be livid to find out someone dogged my car on a testdrive after I brought it in for an alignment or something like that.

 

[Camfab]

A couple of lessons learned here for some of you.

A) Why you never valet your car
B) If your doing something wrong, don't air it on the net

A porter at my local Dodge dealership was caught joyriding Vipers only after he crashed one, he was sentenced with grand theft auto.

 

[Vic]

Tuttle-Click?

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

"A porter at my local Dodge dealership was caught joyriding Vipers only after he crashed one, he was sentenced with grand theft auto. "

Jeez that happens a lot

 

[joe117]

"He came back to let me drive it"

If it was his car I might have taken him up on his offer to drive the ZO6.
But knowing that the car wasn't his, I would be very concerned about what would happen if something happened to the car while I was driving it.

Who would pay?

Would your buddy call the police and say the car had been stolen and wrecked?
Would he claim against his insurance saying the car was damaged while loading it up?
Would your buddy ask you to pay?
Would your buddy ask you to be involved in some lie to cover what really happened?

Just the thought of what might happen and the possible outcome would keep me from wanting to drive the car.

"Hey, my neighbor is out of town and I'm feeding the cat, let's have a party at his house, he has a great place with a big pool."

"Hey, my friend left his boat at my house while he's on vacation, it's got two 496s, let's take it out."

"Hey, someone left this Corvette with me to be shipped, let's take it out and see what it's got"

Seems like I learned not to get involved in that kind of thing when I was about 14 years old.

 

[big-n-italian]

the tuner i just left had burnout marks all over the front of the shop. he told me that this is how he tested the cars when they were finished. our relationship was over at that point.

In all honesty, if I just had a tuner do some major engine upgrades to my car, I would almost prefer him to do a "hard" testdrive of it. If anything is incorrect, I'd rather it blow up with him than me. It takes away the possibility of him trying to say it was MY driving that caused the problem and you can feel better knowing the supercharger/twin turbos arent gonna crap out on you the 1st time you "get on it". I worked with a guy who would drive cars pretty hard after he did any engine work (timing belt, new engine, etc) to them. His theory was "I'd rather the engine blow up with me in the shop/testdrive than with them going down interstate". Now if you just go in for routine work, a hard test drive is not necessary and I'd be livid to find out someone dogged my car on a testdrive after I brought it in for an alignment or something like that.

dont get me wrong chad, i agree with you. i just think it should be asked or the owner atleast be informed that this is going to happen instead of discovering it by accident and maybe getting/giving the wrong impression.

i think that this was the problem here with the "test drive". a lack of communication.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

14? You are a slow learner Joe! LOL
I had that way of thinking beat into my head when I was 12!

 

[joe117]

Did anyone check the Vette site to see if they dropped this?
Is anyone over there trying to figure out whose car it was?

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Did anyone check the Vette site to see if they dropped this?
Is anyone over there trying to figure out whose car it was?

Oh yeah, I just checked and the thread is now up to 5 pages, last posted on about an hour ago. They have gone as far as to list SynFull's work address, work #'s, his home address and home phone, along with a pic of his Viper presumably outside his house Also, a couple guys have started the "maybe its a hoax to piss off Vette owners" theory. I highly doubt that one personally. I think harassing Synfull is going too far and could easily lead to criminal charges against someone, but God why would you be so stupid to do something like what they did and then brag about it on the NET?

 

[Viper23]

Did anyone check the Vette site to see if they dropped this?
Is anyone over there trying to figure out whose car it was?

Oh yeah, I just checked and the thread is now up to 5 pages, last posted on about an hour ago. They have gone as far as to list SynFull's work address, work #'s, his home address and home phone, along with a pic of his Viper presumably outside his house Also, a couple guys have started the "maybe its a hoax to piss off Vette owners" theory. I highly doubt that one personally. I think harassing Synfull is going too far and could easily lead to criminal charges against someone, but God why would you be so stupid to do something like what they did and then brag about it on the NET?

Can they really do something to Synful? I agree that what happened was not right, but did he do anything illegal? Maybe his friend, but not him. If they are actually posting all his info on the net, I think that is going too far. BTW, i could care less if it was a vette or a Viper, but posting all that info is not cool.

My 2 cents.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Can they really do something to Synful? I agree that what happened was not right, but did he do anything illegal? Maybe his friend, but not him. If they are actually posting all his info on the net, I think that is going too far. BTW, i could care less if it was a vette or a Viper, but posting all that info is not cool.

My 2 cents.

Agreed completely. When all is said and done, its just a car. No reason for any chance of physical violence against Synfull or the delivery guy. I'd be ticked if it was my Z06, but I'd let GM/the authorities handle it. I know noone on the Vette board has blatantly suggested any physical harm, but posting that type of personal info certainly gives someone the opportunity.

 

[Vic]

"He came back to let me drive it"

If it was his car I might have taken him up on his offer to drive the ZO6.
But knowing that the car wasn't his, I would be very concerned about what would happen if something happened to the car while I was driving it.

Who would pay?

Would your buddy call the police and say the car had been stolen and wrecked?
Would he claim against his insurance saying the car was damaged while loading it up?
Would your buddy ask you to pay?
Would your buddy ask you to be involved in some lie to cover what really happened?

Just the thought of what might happen and the possible outcome would keep me from wanting to drive the car.

"Hey, my neighbor is out of town and I'm feeding the cat, let's have a party at his house, he has a great place with a big pool."

"Hey, my friend left his boat at my house while he's on vacation, it's got two 496s, let's take it out."

"Hey, someone left this Corvette with me to be shipped, let's take it out and see what it's got"

Seems like I learned not to get involved in that kind of thing when I was about 14 years old.

You forgot this one-

"Hey, c'mon over, my neighbor's wife is a fluzy"

 

[gthomas]

If a vette owner is shot at his house/business after confronting Synful, I would say it would be deserved. Then go after the boards that posted the information.

Gotta like when people with no vested interest get Dick Tracy. Report it and move on.