Engine management

[Viper Scot]

I'm wanting to further modify my 1996 RT/10 (currently has cam, head work etc, wanting to go Paxton) and want to know what are the best options for engine management. I currently have an SCT controller but would like to be able to actively map the car myself. So:

Is the mapping software for the SCT generally available?

What would be a better ECU? Obviously MoTec but $$$$. What about AEM? I'd like to be able to have the option of traction control (recently experienced how much that would help me on the drag strip!).

I'd be grateful of any advice!

 

[RTTTTed]

I have an AEM. My Paxton has a split second box which controls the Nitrous Oxide system as well as the water/**** injection & fuel pumps etc. My Paxton ACR runs perfect.

SCT has a system for logging as well.

Traction control is only a bandaid for normal driving and helpful when accidently overthrottling and driving on wet and dust covered roads.

At the road course and drag strip you need to turn it off. Best traction is attained at 7-11% slippage. Many TCs just apply th brakes which of course slows you down and doesn't speed you up. Using traction control is a good way to lose a race. It is great for beginners though.

I had a rental Charger and drove a gravel road with the ESC turned on. Top speed on this curvy gravel road was 30mph. Turned off the ESC and managed 70mph with only a little drifting around the corners.

Ted

 

[plumcrazy]

split second on mine, no issues at all.

 

[RTTTTed]

AND ... the Paxton kit comes with the split second box FREE!

 

[Viper Specialty]

For your setup, an SCT Pro Racer Package in combination with the Paxton Fuel System and Split Second would be a nice overal setup for a moderate build. AEM would be the next step up, and Pectel/Motec would be the top-tier controllers.

 

[Russ M]

Get an AEM and forget everything else. Built in wide band setup, traction control, nitrous, etc, etc etc, etc....

Everything else is either a band-aid or 4x the price for no additional benefits.

 

[Russ M]

Oops just realized you have a gen 1, an AEM would require lots of wiring expense. An SCT or a Vec will be much easier in your case, or perhaps you can get DC to flash your ECU.

 

[Neil - UK]

if you want the AEM mapped right you need to get Chris over from DC, i dont think you want a DIY setup the AEM quite a complicated programme for a novice to setup, and takes some dyno time

Chris does all the tuning, mapping/programming for DC, whether it be a re-flash,Roe,AEM or Motec install, he flew in a couple of months ago and tuned x3 cars over 2 days over here, and maybe coming back next year

Baz just ditched his AEM returning back to his stock ECU with a reflash from Chris, 732 bhp Roe S/C with engine work, unless your planning to tune yourself is there any need now-a-days for a AEM ?

 

[Viper Scot]

I think it's crucial to get a race car (as in a car you're planning to race) mapped properly and their are some very good tuners experienced with AEM up here. I'd be happier having the option to change the map as and when required.

Neil - why did Baz go back to stock ECU from AEM? And does that mean he has an AEM for sale?

Nothing decided yet though - still looking at the options!

BTW, it's a Gen 1.5 car which, I believe, has the same ECU and loom as the Gen 2 - please correct me if I'm wrong!!

Cheers

 

[Neil - UK]

i think Baz swapped using advice from Chris, he sold his AEM on

you could try Joel as he is having his AEM pulled out as we speak, as you know his AEM and viper has hardly had any use

 

[plumcrazy]

a little birdy just told me

People are telling this guy AEM,but fail to tell him on a gen 1 you have to change the cam sprocket in order to use it or Motec!

 

[Viper Scot]

a little birdy just told me

Is this also the case for Gen 1.5?

 

[Neil - UK]

Hamish, I spoke to Joel he did have x3 new AEM's but they are all sold

 

[Russ M]

Is this also the case for Gen 1.5?

Its easy to tell, where is your ecu?

 

[SquadX]

SCT or PCM flash (send to Dc perf). Only way to pass emissions. AEM wont.

 

[jmillsUT28]

Split Second and use the Zeitronix system to tune it yourself!

 

[white out]

AEM is the way to go for a build like you have anticipated.

Nick

 

[plumcrazy]

Is this also the case for Gen 1.5?

no, 96 is ok im told

 

[SingleMalt]

Correct. 96 RT has the PCM on the passenger side, but it is a Gen2 box. Different wiring harness though (only applicable to 96 RT).

Listen to Dan Lesser... He's got the experience and smarts.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Everything else is either a band-aid or 4x the price for no additional benefits.

There are plenty of benefits. For starters, quality and reliability that you cannot find outside of NASA JPL is probably the biggest selling point.. something that AEM cannot boast in any way, shape or form. Other than that, more flexible software and logging, far more input and output capability, serial integration with dozens of external expander modules and digital dashboards, telemetry options, hundreds of sensor integration options from Aero to Suspension to Thermocouples to Ride Height to Yaw and Aerodynamics. You name it.

There is a reason that those systems cost an arm and a leg.... they have the ability to run the whole body if you buy the other body parts

 

[Russ M]

Most if not all of the people on here will never even consider using any of the things you are listing, and besides that you may want to remind them that each of those features co$t additional money.

Quality or Reliability of the AEM? You serious?

I think you are confusing tuner incompitence with unit problems, I have one of the first units they built and have not had any problems that had me concerned. And the service you get like a dedicated tech line, free tuning school held weekly.

 

[plumcrazy]

personally i think its up to the guy tuning the car. let him tell you what HE prefers to tune with.

i know there are at least 2 tuners who will not tune with the vec, they simply dont like it. I know of 2 guys who prefer split second.

i think dan is one of the more flexible tuners who will tune on just about anything

 

[Jack B]

personally i think its up to the guy tuning the car. let him tell you what HE prefers to tune with.

i know there are at least 2 tuners who will not tune with the vec, they simply dont like it. I know of 2 guys who prefer split second.

i think dan is one of the more flexible tuners who will tune on just about anything

Dan briefly mentioned it, but, the SCT package makes it extremely easy to remap the car for changes to the a/f versus load/rpm.

Unless something has changed the Chrysler version of SCT we use does not have a logging capability, but, it is easy enough to integrate the Palmer Engineering OBD scan tool data into SCT.

 

[vprtech]

I think it's crucial to get a race car (as in a car you're planning to race) mapped properly and their are some very good tuners experienced with AEM up here. I'd be happier having the option to change the map as and when required.

Neil - why did Baz go back to stock ECU from AEM? And does that mean he has an AEM for sale?

Nothing decided yet though - still looking at the options!

BTW, it's a Gen 1.5 car which, I believe, has the same ECU and loom as the Gen 2 - please correct me if I'm wrong!!

Cheers

I prefer to use the stock ecu for customers that value reliability, and no fuss drivability, over ease of mapping and the advanced data logging capabilities you get with most stand alone systems. Although some people have had zero failures or trouble with their AEM ecu, others have not been so lucky. That being said, I still think, properly tuned, the AEM is good value for the money, and for someone who drag races his car and needs a two step or internal data logging, it is the most cost effective option available. While the AEM can be tuned to have very good start up and idle quality, the factory ecu was designed to have the best possible drivability while meeting strict emission and durability requirements. Even with wild engine combinations, the factory ecu is usually a very good, if not the best option if you understand how the idle, fuel and timing strategies work within the ecu, have capable data logging tools (ideally high speed SCI, not generic OBD2) and have the ability to tune the required calibration areas .

Regarding your car, yes it is a GEN1, but it has the JTEC specific cam gear, so running an AEM should be no problem. We have not done it ourselves, but have seen another shop swap in a 1996 GEN 1 cam gear on a SBECII equipped Viper, and then re-terminated the loom to use the JTEC connectors. That connector kit can be purchased from AEM. At our shop, we can tune the factory SBECII ecu used in 1992-1995 Vipers, and have been able to compensate for some exotic parts combinations (sometimes combined with a VEC), so I have had no need to use stand alone on those cars.

- Chris

DC Performance: Proven Performance

 

[vprtech]

Useful data logging is a big problem for people who are either trying to tune their cars themselves with the SCT Pro-Racer package, or are trying to relay useful information back to the person who is modifying their calibration. The Palmer XL suite, or similar setup such Logworks with the obd2 interface, is probably the most effective option you can find currently if you are just trying to build air fuel error tables. The problem with generic OBD2 that these tools use, is data rates are very slow, and they don't provide you with all of the vehicle specific pids that are needed to properly tune your car.Even the aftermarket tools that you can buy with enhanced PID support, tend to have very poor sample rates, one of which sample no faster than five times per second total. If you own a 2003 or newer Viper btw, the best tool I've found for generic data logging is the HP tuners interface with their beta 2.23 software. While still generic OBD2, it has by far, the best data rate I've seen with the OBD2 protocol.

I have working, and plan on releasing a logging interface with software application, that has the ability to log upwards of four hundred received bytes per second. Currently some of the speed will be dependent on your laptop, but even with a more modest machine, the data rates are many times faster then anything that is currently available. Right now, we are working on integrating a table plotting function similar to HP Tuners or Palmer XL.

I don't know if this post is appropriate here, so moderators, please move or delete if necessary.

- Chris

DC Performance: Proven Performance

 

[vipzilla]

Useful data logging is a big problem for people who are either trying to tune their cars themselves with the SCT Pro-Racer package, or are trying to relay useful information back to the person who is modifying their calibration. The Palmer XL suite, or similar setup such Logworks with the obd2 interface, is probably the most effective option you can find currently if you are just trying to build air fuel error tables. The problem with generic OBD2 that these tools use, is data rates are very slow, and they don't provide you with all of the vehicle specific pids that are needed to properly tune your car.Even the aftermarket tools that you can buy with enhanced PID support, tend to have very poor sample rates, one of which sample no faster than five times per second total. If you own a 2003 or newer Viper btw, the best tool I've found for generic data logging is the HP tuners interface with their beta 2.23 software. While still generic OBD2, it has by far, the best data rate I've seen with the OBD2 protocol.

I have working, and plan on releasing a logging interface with software application, that has the ability to log upwards of four hundred received bytes per second. Currently some of the speed will be dependent on your laptop, but even with a more modest machine, the data rates are many times faster then anything that is currently available. Right now, we are working on integrating a table plotting function similar to HP Tuners or Palmer XL.

I don't know if this post is appropriate here, so moderators, please move or delete if necessary.

- Chris

DC Performance: Proven Performance

r u kiddin me this is some of the best posts ive read on this forum in a long time and im sure others will agree verry good info

 

[HHI VIPER]

I have an AEM. My Paxton has a split second box which controls the Nitrous Oxide system as well as the water/**** injection & fuel pumps etc. My Paxton ACR runs perfect.

SCT has a system for logging as well.

Traction control is only a bandaid for normal driving and helpful when accidently overthrottling and driving on wet and dust covered roads.

At the road course and drag strip you need to turn it off. Best traction is attained at 7-11% slippage. Many TCs just apply th brakes which of course slows you down and doesn't speed you up. Using traction control is a good way to lose a race. It is great for beginners though.

I had a rental Charger and drove a gravel road with the ESC turned on. Top speed on this curvy gravel road was 30mph. Turned off the ESC and managed 70mph with only a little drifting around the corners.

Ted

A little shot blasting to the fenders of the Charger Ted??? Use to have an old Plymouth Fury we used to bounce of roadside snowbanks in northern Michigan. A BLAST!!

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

I swaped out the AEM for reasons Chris and myself discussed.... I wanted no fuss turn key reliability
The SCT is so easy to use,Uploads in less than 10 mins.

I'm no tuner so would never get the full benifits of the AEM and i think Chris got a kick out of the first roe blown viper runing SCT, Never had a problem with the AEM though..

HUGE THANKS to Chris and DC PERFORMACE

 

[Viper Specialty]

I'm no tuner so would never get the full benifits of the AEM and i think Chris got a kick out of the first roe blown viper runing SCT

haha, we beat you to it

But in all seriousness, times will change very soon... VEC's and SplitSecs are basically obsolete these days.

 

[vipzilla]

haha, we beat you to it

But in all seriousness, times will change very soon... VEC's and SplitSecs are basically obsolete these days.

not on gen 1's vec and split sec are only choices with obd 1