Exit Stage Left - Last Visit to SRT Forum

[GR8_ASP]

Finally hit my limit with the criticism of the SRT. I will check back later, maybe in the fall, to see if it has improved.

I agree that everyone has the right to freedom of speech. But I do not intend to listen to constant criticism of something that I plan on purchasing and enjoying in the near future. Heck, I wouldn't take this much verbal abuse if I brought home an Aztec.

The VCA and this board are supposed to be about friendships and sharing a good time with people with similar interests. This no longer seems to be the case

Ron

 

[SERPENT INDIANA]

I hate them so bad I have 2 ordered...red and black....they are different than the original, but so what...I was ready for a change myself...I had bought my last RT/10...on my 2nd GTS at this time and I thought the SRT was a pleasant change of pace...if everyone liked the same thing, we would all drive identical cars...I am ready for the new Viper even though I still like the old ones...

 

[SmokinV10]

toodles

 

[dadsvpr]

i have to say i somewhat agree. things are getting pretty weird. bashing everywhere. i like fast performance cars period. the srt-10 qualifies. i'd love an srt-10, if not side by side with my acr then instead of it. we are car folks, thats why we drive vipers. we'd drive more and others if we possibly could, some of us do.

Jason

 

[Wing King]

Dr. Speed...... please don't go, but I know how you feel. I get tired of the bashing myself, although I also believe that everyone (particularly VCA members) has a right to state their opinions as long as we keep the open forums, even if it IS annoyingly done over and over and over and over and over and over again.... I assume as some personal mission to get laughs among their buddies or try to convince the rest of the world that THEIR personal judgement is right, and the SRT *****.

Vipermad...... I have a weird idea. Unfortunately, it would make MORE work for you and other moderators. Anyone ever thought about splitting the SRT thing into TWO forums?? One being SRT POSITIVE, and the other SRT NEGATIVE?? That way, those people who wanted to stay up to date and really discuss the meat about the new car would not have to be continuously subject to the clever and caustic remarks every time some NICE things get said about it. The guys that hate it could keep posting all they wanted on their side, and get their laughs among themselves, without continuously insulting their fellow members who like the car. Heck, they could even have a CONTEST over in that forum, where you get the most points for coming up with the most insulting comparison to the looks!

Maybe the grand champion could win a special award from Dodge, like a special certificate that states they can NEVER be allowed to even SIT in a new SRT, let alone BUY one!

Yea, probably a wacky thought to have the two forums, but it's late and I hate to see members go away because others want to have fun at their expense. The debate for the ages.... when does one person's freedom of expression run into another person's rights to be free from it. The sad thing is, if someone has to leave to avoid it, then they will miss lots of information and facts about the new car coming to the forum in the months to come. Bummer.

 

[Joseph Houss]

Hang in there! The heckler's will surely get tired of THESE ANNOYING AND REDUNDANT COMMENTS. It reminds me of grade school (is not... is too ... is not .... is too ..... is not ....).

Give it up naysayers! Here's a thought, rather than have whomever it is you think controls style, design and engineering at Chrysler have to bounce around to find your "negative" comments, why don't we just have ONE topic opened for your CREATIVE ideas on what you would like to see changed on the SRT-10? ... and then leave those other topics that have a positive beat to them, or have legitimate requests for more information for those RESPECTED visitors that happen to have an interesting topic to discuss?

In all honesty, the hecklers (stratusmobile, s2000v10, etc) are begining to sound like Supra owners!!!!!! ... and what would you, the hecklers say to them? YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS TOPIC!

What do you say that one of you naysayers start a topic "Suggestions for a different SRT-10", and you all can congregate there? Who knows, it may lead to some great ideas for the '04,'05, etc? Oh, and I'm sure the "Pro-SRT" guys won't heckle you!

 

[BigsViper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Houss:
Hang in there! The heckler's will surely get tired of THESE ANNOYING AND REDUNDANT COMMENTS. It reminds me of grade school (is not... is too ... is not .... is too ..... is not ....).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed Joe, But a large part of the problem is THESE ANNOYING AND REDUNDANT COMMENTS that feed the fight. You can't have an ....is too (ugly) without an ....is not (ugly), or yeah but it's faster, retort. What ever happened to the response "Sorry you don't like the SRT's looks but I do, and I can't wait to get mine." If more supporters employed this statement I'll bet the bickering would subside.

The description of this section states:

"For technical and general questions and discussions related to the Chapter III SRT-10 convertible and competition coupe Vipers (2003+)."

Nowhere does it say for SRT supporters only. The problem seems as much that the supporters can't get over the fact that some don't like the looks, as it is the detractors can't get over their dislike for the looks.

If anyone cares about my views on the actual car you all know how to use the search key. Now you also have my views on this discussions. (whether you wanted it or not)

 

[Joseph Houss]

Good point Bigs!

So what would like to see on this website:

1) TWO forums, one for pro-SRT, one for SRT "constructive suggestions"

2) Or just lay down some guidelines to the forum area regarding pro and con debating?

...anything else you could suggest?

I think many of the comments are correct, once the first SRT gets delievered, I bet all this stewing simmers down.

 

[Janni]

Please tell me you guys are kidding about the SRT segregation? Has anyone EVER seena forum where you were told you had to only say nice things? Completely absurd.

For the most part, folks are resistant to change. Often I have found myself disappointed with a new model of a car I like - in fact the more I like the existing car, the less I am apt to like the new one. It always looks like they are taking away a friend... Usually, in time, the new design grows on me and if the car still does what the original one did (stays true to purpose) then I make room in my heart for it. This WILL happen with the SRT.

Agreed - most of the bashing stuff will go away as cars find their way into mew owners hands. Actually, it'll be interesting, because some of the same arguments we have had with other car owners will come back to happen between our brothers - no doubt new SRT 10 owners will be able to throw out performance figures that eclipse the current cars just as we do today to Vettes, Supras, Porsches, etc. And us Gen II folks will have to eat some of our words... ("Well yeah its refined and not as outrageously styled but its FASTER and HANDLES BETTER" instead of "Yeah its put together like a kit car, is crude and has no dead pedal, but its FASTER and HANDLES BETTER than your XXXXX") Some may decide to buy later on, some may not, but we'll manage to co-exist, because when it comes down to it - this car club is about the people, and they are some of the best **** people I know.

Janni
** Who by the way, is not wild about the SRT-10 - I want a coupe - I want a DUAL PURPOSE driver / track car and I don't feel comfortable tracking a 'vert - even with a roll bar. It'd be a great 4th Viper (after a Comp Coupe) but I won't give up my 96 for one. I will however, give up ONE 96 for a coupe.... HINT HINT...

Oh and Steve - already working on the Comp Coupe issue - but some of us (me) don't want a race car - we want a car we can track AND drive on the street - like I have today.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Forget the split, Jon hit it on the nail. REAL information is needed, so let's start that processes.

 

[MichaelP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:
If the new car were called something other than a Viper, it is unlikely that Current Viper owners would have been given the first opportunity to purchase the car, and without a premium price to pay. If the current Viper were to be continued unchanged alongside this new non Viper, It's sales numbers would dwindle to an unprofitable level and the Viper name would die a slow embarrasing death. Please note that I am not posting this comment on the gen I / II board area!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


VERY good point Richard.

If the new car was called something other than Viper I do not think ANY of the people here would have bothered 'bashing' it at all. Maybe it Dodge should have just made a new convertable with a new name.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Janni, you HAVE the car you like for the track, why are they obligated to produce another one? When there is value in it then maybe they will, but for now, Viper enthusiasts have a chance to buy 4 different versions of Viper. There are only so many current Viper owners who are in a position to own more than one. At least by this methodology, more enthusiasts will have a chance to find the one that suits their individual preferences.

 

[Mike Brunton]

It's easy to think that without someone (me) "debating" the positive side, there would be no negative side, but I don't agree (obviously).

I think Wing King is 100% right in that there is a personal mission of some folks to trash the car. I can only think it's to anger some specific folks or to get a rise out of people. Consider the kid at school... if he gets picked on and doesn't fight back, before long, EVERYONE picks on him. If he stands up for himself and takes on the biggest bully head-to-head, then everyone else will back off.

If it were just criticism, that would be one thing - but when it's blatant name calling, thats something else entirely.

I agree with others that once the real information starts to flow, things will get better. However, we DO have a rule on this site against blatant flaming. I would say a post called "I was wrong, it doesnt look like a stratus, it looks like a NEON" or whatever it said was a blatant flame, obviously intended to upset a number of people. Why would something that has an absolutely zero contribution to the board be allowed to remain? Nothing wrong with expressing opinions, but if I said "everyone from new york is ***!" wouldn't that be inflammatory and removed? Sure it may be an opinion, but this ain't (as we know) a democracy, and it exists for the benefit of the members. More poignantly, this specific forum exists for the benefit of SRT forum members - so why allow a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone?

I've been saying for months that folks are sick of it... now someone posts as much and one of the most outspoken troublemakers response is 'toodloo'. Whats wrong with this picture?

 

[SmokinV10]

There is this mindset out there that many of us who dont like the car are just being resistant to change. I beg to differ. MANY, actually MOST of us liked the current viper immediately. It was love at first sight. None of this "It will grow on you". That is called blowing sunshine your own a$$. That is a ploy people use to comfort themselves. Yes it does have great performance. Even one of the king whiners here admits it. But honestly with the GT40 lurking around the corner, its performance is not good enough. Also, for us performance, track and 1/4 mile gear heads, the lack of a coupe is not leading to a very enticing viper experience . Imagine how the SRT would look with a rollbar to meet track regulations.....EWWWWW! Thats turning ugly into uglier....like turning crap into diarrhea. When they made the first Viper, it was looks AND performance. They are not mutually exclusive elements in a successful sports car. Look at the 427 AC Cobra, Cobra Daytona, GT40, almost all ferrari's, Current Vipers. They have performance with good looks. That makes for a timeless classic. There wasnt an onslaught, of people complaining about how they are dissapointed. That is a huge indication that a mistake was made. Lets face it, you are kidding yourself if you think they styled the SRT correctly. People dont want something to "grow" on them. They want to be swept off their feet. A single guy doenst look across the room at a so-so woman and say "she'll grow on me". We look across the room, WANT to be able to say "heeellooooooooo!!!!, she's hoooooooooot, on-fire!". The SRT doesnt do that for viper nation. So are we resistant to change? No. Many of us, including me, change cars often. Sometimes I keep my cars only months, before changing them....something better came out. I just want to have something that catches my eye, moves the soul, raises body temperatures and heart rates. The current Viper does it to me. Honestly, although Im trying to keep things peaceful in here by not calling the new car the stra**, I refuse to call it a Viper. I will only call it an SRT. Thats how dissapointed I am.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Smokin,

You have established how disappointed you are - but there must be more to it than that. You have gone beyond establishing your dislike of the car, and created posts who'se sole intent was to inflame. When told that you are being offensive, rather than realizing that and backing off, you simply turned up the heat.

So, what's your endgame? I have tried to give you the opportunity to state your beef and be done with it. If your beef is with me, I offered you the chance to solve that. If it's with the car, I told you that you had made your point.

Yet you still continue to make inflammatory posts purely intended to upset others. I have also seen you (in this thread) be rude to others who expressed their displeasure with your flames.

So what is your endgame? What's your point? Will you visit this board for years to come and make inflammatory comments intended to upset SRT buyers? Will you whine about the car ceaselessly for years to come? What's the goal? What's the final desired outcome?

 

[SmokinV10]

Mike,
You and I will NEVER see eye to eye on the new car. We will never see eye to eye on usage of this section of the board. I wont leave. I am a VCA member and have a right to post on this board. Even though you apparently are not a member, you even have a right to post here. If a moderator wants to change the format of the board, and make this a "positive comment only section" he can do that. I will not take you up on your juvinile tough guy attempt for a "boxing match" or whatever. Many probably will agree with me there. That isnt my personality. I am not a violent person. If you are, thats you. I can accept that. You can be mike, and I will be SmokinV10. Deal with it. But more importantly, Chill out....chill out....chill out.

 

[Janni]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Ferguson:
Janni, you HAVE the car you like for the track, why are they obligated to produce another one? When there is value in it then maybe they will, but for now, Viper enthusiasts have a chance to buy 4 different versions of Viper. There are only so many current Viper owners who are in a position to own more than one. At least by this methodology, more enthusiasts will have a chance to find the one that suits their individual preferences.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously no one is obligated to build anything for me. I was a marketing major in college and I thought the whole idea of manufacturing was to produce something that someone WANTED. I know its convertible only right now - I am fine with that. I am just letting DC know that I would buy another Viper if they made a coupe - you know - SALES? Isn't that the premise behind a car company - to sell cars????

And just because I have a car I like to drive on the street and the track means I can never have or want another? (Note to self, make sure Steve never gets to be in charge of market research / new product introductions... "well, the heck with her - she already HAS a car..."

)

I really don't think I am all that demanding. I'd like to think I am a CUSTOMER who wants to SPEND MONEY with a car company. Obligated? Nope. Might be a good idea to pay attention to the market? Yup.

IF I could have a fourth Viper, I'd get an SRT/10. I like it for being a convertible for the street. I miss my old convertible. But, since it'd be just a toy and could not replace something I have (i.e. it'd be a net add) I just cannot justify it.

Really NOT trying to stir things up... :wink:

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Janni, the point is make something new and different, or make something the same. You enjoy the second version, but I enjoy the first. No one is right or wrong, but at least we get a chance to own something we want. Now we have the opportunity to own even more versions, if we care to go that route. As the last 10 years of Viper sales have proven, there are only a limited number of people who enjoy these special machines. In order to get to more people you have to offer them something that they are looking for. As the GTS is NOT FOR EVERYONE, I say neither is the RT/10 or the SRT/10 for that matter. Each will find people to embrace what they offer. You can even throw in the CC for that exclusive group it will cater to.

Hey the reason we never saw another Cobra was because Ford was afraid that they could never live up to the original. I am proud to be associated with a company that has the balls to produce something that shakes things up. Sorry you feel let down.

 

[-RUNNR]

I have yet to actually say anything about the SRT-10, but today I will.

When I saw the first pictures, I totally disliked it. And said so to many folks in person. In my minds eye the S2000 comments were justified. There are many similarities.

Now that time has passed, and I start to read more about it's stats, and see more and more images of it, all I can say is "wow".

This is one hell of a car. Is it our current Viper? No. Will it hold the exact same appeal? No. Will it drawl folks in to check it out? Yes. Does it have flaws? Yes. Do our current Vipers have flaws? Heck yes.

All in all, I believe this will be one heck of a car. Performance wise, stock to stock it beats the current Viper. Looks wise, I prefer our current Vipers.

Would I put one in my garage? Of course I would (but only after I got a second or third job to pay for it).

I look forward to seeing the NE region members who have this car on order. Can't wait to actually ride in it, and just maybe conning someone into letting me take the drivers seat. Mike, can't wait to see you pull up to an event in your new Viper.

I think it is a shame that VCA members are feeling so strongly segregated. The SRT-10 may not be like our current Viper, but the SRT-10 is still a VIPER, and folks who like it are still VIPER OWNERS. Please, let's respect that and discuss the differences and opinions with that thought in mind. I am not calling for gag orders here, I'm just asking for, well, a more relaxed discussion.

Thanks

 

[Mike Brunton]

Smokin,

However, your attitude about "I can post here if I like because I am a member"... member of what, the VCA? I can't be a member because I don't have a Viper - I was a member when I did have a Viper. Is that clear enough?

The point is that some folks like to use this forum to get information on their new car. When some folks INSIST on insulting the car at every turn, then you are infringing on their enjoyment of this site. That isnt' fair, and I don't think you have the right to do that. The fact that you dont like the car doesn't give you the "right" to cause other folks frustration in trying to learn about the car that they like.

I don't expect you to see MY point of view, however... you keep saying you have the "right" to post what you like. However so far in this thread, at least 4 of our respected VCA officers has spoken out and said that the bashing of the SRT is getting a bit old. Given that, will you still continue to bash the car, even in the face of the leaders of the club saying that you folks should give it a rest. If you insist on bashing the car still, I just would like to understand your reason for doing so... you say it's not meant to insult people... and you say it's not meant to offend - then why do it?

 

[SmokinV10]

Everyone (not just mike)
If the officers decide that a "gag order on SRT bashing" is necessary, then make it so. Im sure that will have other reprocussions. That would be a great way to have a MASS exodus of membership of people out of the board. If people are looking for info in the SRT, they can come and see it. I do read all the points on the SRT. However, people will also realize that many do not like the new car. Maybe they will agree with us and let DC know. Maybe they wont. Whats the harm?

The harm is that many people just dont like us to badmouth the SRT, because they bought one, ordered one, or like it themselves. But if these people are looking for approval or support, probably should buy a GT40.

 

[gtsviper]

Dr. Speed finally reached the point others reached earlier. We raised the idea of a Whiners Forum so those interested in posting personal opinions could do so without interference. A separate forum should be available for those who want information and data on the SRT to keep current without having to sort through opinions (no matter whether positive or negative)to learn the most recent developments .

I only rarely visit the current SRT forum now because of the continuous comments saying the same thing time and again.

I want as much information as possible on the new car but could skip the editorials.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Excellent post Don!

I will be at the drag strip the day I get that sucker

so I would love to have you come by and check it out - hell, I'll even toss you the keys if you promise to be nice!

When I had my GTS and saw the SRT - I HATED it, and I mean *HATED* it. After I got rid of my GTS, I was open to get whatever Viper I wanted.

I considered another GTS (a '99 - last year of forged pistons - perfect for TT'ing the car), but when I looked at it in a totally unbiased way, I think the SRT is the best Viper yet. I did get sick of some of my GTS's flaws, and the SRT is better in every way. As for the looks? Well, you either love it or hate it I guess, I love it.

I think the SRT will generate the same enthusiasm as the GTS/RT did - and I think half the mystique of the GTS/RT was that they had the bite to back up their bark. Ironically, the SRT has less bark, but a bunch more bite! I think this will seriously add to the mystique and allure of the car.

And I would HATE to be at some event where some *********** is sqawking about how it's an S2000 or whatever - because that would really make me feel like some folks just can't say something nice or learn to keep their mouths shut.

Luckily, it seems like most of the folks that hate the SRT are the looks oriented ones - and I'm a performance oriented kinda guy - so I'll happily click of a bunch of 11's while those who would detract from my happiness talk about how they could run 11's too if they wanted to

 

[agentf1]

Now you know how us Vette guys feel.

Personally I like the SRT 10, but then I like all performance cars. I think some of the people on this forum have tunnel vision and if its not there GTS its just not cool enough. It doesn't have quite the gawk factor of Gen II cars but it sounds like it will definetly be a better car.

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janni:
Please tell me you guys are kidding about the SRT segregation? Has anyone EVER seena forum where you were told you had to only say nice things? Completely absurd.


For the most part, folks are resistant to change. Often I have found myself disappointed with a new model of a car I like - in fact the more I like the existing car, the less I am apt to like the new one. It always looks like they are taking away a friend... Usually, in time, the new design grows on me and if the car still does what the original one did (stays true to purpose) then I make room in my heart for it. This WILL happen with the SRT.


Agreed - most of the bashing stuff will go away as cars find their way into mew owners hands. Actually, it'll be interesting, because some of the same arguments we have had with other car owners will come back to happen between our brothers - no doubt new SRT 10 owners will be able to throw out performance figures that eclipse the current cars just as we do today to Vettes, Supras, Porsches, etc. And us Gen II folks will have to eat some of our words... ("Well yeah its refined and not as outrageously styled but its FASTER and HANDLES BETTER" instead of "Yeah its put together like a kit car, is crude and has no dead pedal, but its FASTER and HANDLES BETTER than your XXXXX") Some may decide to buy later on, some may not, but we'll manage to co-exist, because when it comes down to it - this car club is about the people, and they are some of the best **** people I know.


Janni
** Who by the way, is not wild about the SRT-10 - I want a coupe - I want a DUAL PURPOSE driver / track car and I don't feel comfortable tracking a 'vert - even with a roll bar. It'd be a great 4th Viper (after a Comp Coupe) but I won't give up my 96 for one. I will however, give up ONE 96 for a coupe.... HINT HINT...


Oh and Steve - already working on the Comp Coupe issue - but some of us (me) don't want a race car - we want a car we can track AND drive on the street - like I have today.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent Post Janni! Can't believe I missed it! Excellent!