Few questions about viper before I order one

[Coloviper]

For those Rockies testing pictures, I can't make out the detail in my pictures too well but they almost look like they read as P255/40/18s in the front on special rims (never seen on a Viper before and are almost all enclosed in the design, probably to keep out the snow and ice from building up in the front rims and knocking it all out of balance) and P295/40/18s on the rear. This seems to make sense as the overall diameters are the same as a factory 18"/19" set-up, yet the road patch footprint is reduced significantly which is what you want in a winter tire like this. Factory Copperheads are 19" on the rear so it almost looks like they took the front Copperhead rim and put it on the rear or something. They are tucked into the body a ways. In the end, you are not winning any beauty contests with that set-up but if you are that desperate to drive in the cold, ice and snow, it can be done.

Again an old Jeep winter ****** starts to look pretty good after a while or you could just have a custom winter rim set put together with your snow/ice tires and then it will look okay for the winter in mild driving. I did that with my old 07' Jeep SRT8 I had. Thing was a disaster in the snow and ice so I had a custom set of Boyd Coddington Dictators in 18" with the insides dished out to clear the brakes. With Blizzacks they made the truck 100s better in the snow but that useless traction control system in that POS just made driving in snow and ice a real pain. I agree with the others here, I would not go with wider than 295s in the back.

Just because you can does not always mean you should. That is up to you, I guess. After spending the money I did on the winter rims for that POS 07 SRT8 Jeep, I should have re-evaluated how I used it as a daily driver and just gone to something else which I eventually went to a Cayenne Turbo S and have never had a problem since, neither in snow, ice, rain, mud, etc., etc. Daily driver considerations are different than weekend toy considerations as the weekend thing, you can put up and compromise a lot more. Not sure it helped but that is what I could determine from my blurry pictures while snowing last year.

 

[1BADGTS]

I have probably driven 75k plus miles in all the Vipers I have owned (every gen )The car is going to be a handful below 60 degrees (If you do some research look exactly how many Gen 4s were wrecked driven in cold weather )If the powerband on the 5 is anything like the 4 you have to be careful in the lower temps .Regarding tires (LOL)I don't car what brand is on there on a cold night when that car comes on the cam you had better have the driving expertise to handle it if the traction control is turned off .

 

[PeerBlock]

I have probably driven 75k plus miles in all the Vipers I have owned (every gen )The car is going to be a handful below 60 degrees (If you do some research look exactly how many Gen 4s were wrecked driven in cold weather )If the powerband on the 5 is anything like the 4 you have to be careful in the lower temps .Regarding tires (LOL)I don't car what brand is on there on a cold night when that car comes on the cam you had better have the driving expertise to handle it if the traction control is turned off .

I'll second that. The weather in my area has dropped into the low 60s to high 50s in the evening and driving in the cooler temps vs driving in 75-80 degrees is easily noticeable. Can't floor it in 1st (after rolling out to about 30 MPH; not from a dead stop) without breaking the rear end loose when it's cooler. It can even break loose in second quite easily. At the warmer temps the car would stick well enough doing the same thing. Definitely not a cool weather vehicle.

 

[SRTviper]

I'll second that. The weather in my area has dropped into the low 60s to high 50s in the evening and driving in the cooler temps vs driving in 75-80 degrees is easily noticeable. Can't floor it in 1st (after rolling out to about 30 MPH; not from a dead stop) without breaking the rear end loose when it's cooler. It can even break loose in second quite easily. At the warmer temps the car would stick well enough doing the same thing. Definitely not a cool weather vehicle.

No offense but then thats pretty pathetic. My shelby with only 295s in the rear 30 pounds more torque and 20 more hp doesn't even break loose at 50-60s. I think in your case it is just your driving that makes you break lose because the viper should be way more capable than my shelby. Otherwise I have to go back an re evaluate getting the new vette.

 

[SRTviper]

For those Rockies testing pictures, I can't make out the detail in my pictures too well but they almost look like they read as P255/40/18s in the front on special rims (never seen on a Viper before and are almost all enclosed in the design, probably to keep out the snow and ice from building up in the front rims and knocking it all out of balance) and P295/40/18s on the rear. This seems to make sense as the overall diameters are the same as a factory 18"/19" set-up, yet the road patch footprint is reduced significantly which is what you want in a winter tire like this. Factory Copperheads are 19" on the rear so it almost looks like they took the front Copperhead rim and put it on the rear or something. They are tucked into the body a ways. In the end, you are not winning any beauty contests with that set-up but if you are that desperate to drive in the cold, ice and snow, it can be done.

Again an old Jeep winter ****** starts to look pretty good after a while or you could just have a custom winter rim set put together with your snow/ice tires and then it will look okay for the winter in mild driving. I did that with my old 07' Jeep SRT8 I had. Thing was a disaster in the snow and ice so I had a custom set of Boyd Coddington Dictators in 18" with the insides dished out to clear the brakes. With Blizzacks they made the truck 100s better in the snow but that useless traction control system in that POS just made driving in snow and ice a real pain. I agree with the others here, I would not go with wider than 295s in the back.

Just because you can does not always mean you should. That is up to you, I guess. After spending the money I did on the winter rims for that POS 07 SRT8 Jeep, I should have re-evaluated how I used it as a daily driver and just gone to something else which I eventually went to a Cayenne Turbo S and have never had a problem since, neither in snow, ice, rain, mud, etc., etc. Daily driver considerations are different than weekend toy considerations as the weekend thing, you can put up and compromise a lot more. Not sure it helped but that is what I could determine from my blurry pictures while snowing last year.

Well like I said almost 500x in this thread now and no one seems to be listening but this car is only being driven on weekends as I walk to work on the week days and I only need to be able to drive it in the cold since in Maryland it maybe drops to 20 degrees max (this past winter only got to 29 lowest) and snowed 5 times and each time was less than an inch. So given that I really won't eve drive the car in the snow I just want to drive it in the 30 degree weather. With that being said I already said my stock set up will be the summer set up and HREs on pirelli sottozeros in 19/20s with 295 front and 335 rear will be the winter set up unless some new tire sizes are made or an all season tire is made in the next 2 years.

 

[1BADGTS]

I'll second that. The weather in my area has dropped into the low 60s to high 50s in the evening and driving in the cooler temps vs driving in 75-80 degrees is easily noticeable. Can't floor it in 1st (after rolling out to about 30 MPH; not from a dead stop) without breaking the rear end loose when it's cooler. It can even break loose in second quite easily. At the warmer temps the car would stick well enough doing the same thing. Definitely not a cool weather vehicle.

If you every go on a DYNO JET on an ice cold night and get an actual(uncorrected ) horsepower number that number can vary 50 hp to the tire easily over say a 90plus degree day ..As i said i havent driven a 5 on the 4 the powerband caused many an accident (virtually nothing, then at 4500 all hell breaks lose )In the 90s i had a heavily modded Gen 2 that made the same basic power as my 4 (550 to the tires )but with the 2 the powerband (even with a large cam )was much more predictable and progressive (much more down low )With the 4 even experianced Viper drivers have had problems esp in 2-3 gear because on a cold night coming on the cam in second you can drift going 80 plus mph Basically you have a 700plus horsepower car on an ice cold road with a cam in cam powerband that above 4500

 

[1BADGTS]

Well like I said almost 500x in this thread now and no one seems to be listening but this car is only being driven on weekends as I walk to work on the week days and I only need to be able to drive it in the cold since in Maryland it maybe drops to 20 degrees max (this past winter only got to 29 lowest) and snowed 5 times and each time was less than an inch. So given that I really won't eve drive the car in the snow I just want to drive it in the 30 degree weather. With that being said I already said my stock set up will be the summer set up and HREs on pirelli sottozeros in 19/20s with 295 front and 335 rear will be the winter set up unless some new tire sizes are made or an all season tire is made in the next 2 years.

If you granny shift the car and leave the traction control on you should be fine (i live in NJ and drove every Viper i had all winter )just beware all you need is one momentary lapse of judgemant and you can have a big problem regardless of your tire choice

 

[1BADGTS]

PS if you have never driven a Viper you really need to test drive one on a winter day BEFORE the purchase as the actual driving experiance may be SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT than what you expect part a GEN 4-5 .

 

[PeerBlock]

No offense but then thats pretty pathetic. My shelby with only 295s in the rear 30 pounds more torque and 20 more hp doesn't even break loose at 50-60s. I think in your case it is just your driving that makes you break lose because the viper should be way more capable than my shelby. Otherwise I have to go back an re evaluate getting the new vette.

Breaking loose is no indicator one way or the other of the Viper's capability, it's just simple physics. The torque produced by the engine overcomes the tires' available friction and they slide. It's nothing unusual for any RWD vehicle to exhibit this trait.

I did specify the conditions under which the rear would break loose. I did not say anything to the effect that it will always break loose in cool weather or that it cannot be driven safely. The takeaway here should be that if you are driving this car in cool weather you should go easy on the fun pedal. In other words you will have a lot more fun with this car when the temps are north of 70 degrees F.

 

[1BADGTS]

I'll second that. The weather in my area has dropped into the low 60s to high 50s in the evening and driving in the cooler temps vs driving in 75-80 degrees is easily noticeable. Can't floor it in 1st (after rolling out to about 30 MPH; not from a dead stop) without breaking the rear end loose when it's cooler. It can even break loose in second quite easily. At thewarmer temps the car would stick well enough doing the same thing. Definitely not a cool weather vehicle.

Ps you have a fantastic looking car best of luck with it

 

[1BADGTS]

Breaking loose is no indicator one way or the other of the Viper's capability, it's just simple physics. The torque produced by the engine overcomes the tires' available friction and they slide. It's nothing unusual for any RWD vehicle to exhibit this trait.

I did specify the conditions under which the rear would break loose. I did not say anything to the effect that it will always break loose in cool weather or that it cannot be driven safely. The takeaway here should be that if you are driving this car in cool weather you should go easy on the fun pedal. In other words you will have a lot more fun with this car when the temps are north of 70 degrees F.

There used to be a disclaimer about operating the car in temps under 60 (either on the tire or in the owners man )is it still there

 

[Jack B]

Traction is a bit more complex than torque versus tire width.

No offense but then thats pretty pathetic. My shelby with only 295s in the rear 30 pounds more torque and 20 more hp doesn't even break loose at 50-60s. I think in your case it is just your driving that makes you break lose because the viper should be way more capable than my shelby. Otherwise I have to go back an re evaluate getting the new vette.

 

[Coloviper]

Well like I said almost 500x in this thread now and no one seems to be listening but this car is only being driven on weekends as I walk to work on the week days and I only need to be able to drive it in the cold since in Maryland it maybe drops to 20 degrees max (this past winter only got to 29 lowest) and snowed 5 times and each time was less than an inch. So given that I really won't eve drive the car in the snow I just want to drive it in the 30 degree weather. With that being said I already said my stock set up will be the summer set up and HREs on pirelli sottozeros in 19/20s with 295 front and 335 rear will be the winter set up unless some new tire sizes are made or an all season tire is made in the next 2 years.

Well would appear I don't have a clue what you are so worried about then. If you just want to drive weekends, no performance driving that car below 30 degrees without snow and ice on the road, ALL Vipers can do that if you know how to drive. Sounds like you just need the complete stock set of rim/tires and spend the money on a driving class. Seems you are making a much bigger deal out of your winter driving issue than needs to be. Just tried to help but a complete waste of my time to even dig the pictures up to look. BTW, your welcome!

 

[1BADGTS]

No offense but then thats pretty pathetic. My shelby with only 295s in the rear 30 pounds more torque and 20 more hp doesn't even break loose at 50-60s. I think in your case it is just your driving that makes you break lose because the viper should be way more capable than my shelby. Otherwise I have to go back an re evaluate getting the new vette.

Your Shelby in stock form( if its the current engine) is a high 11 second car (linear powerband due to the blower )The Viper is a high 10 second car in stock form (more sparadic powerband because of the NA cam in cam design )Yes the Viper has more tire under it but that extra couple of inches of rubber aint doing to help you like you think it is .Before you proclaim anything pathethic or think what should be go drive the car then comment

 

[mnc2886]

No offense but then thats pretty pathetic. My shelby with only 295s in the rear 30 pounds more torque and 20 more hp doesn't even break loose at 50-60s. I think in your case it is just your driving that makes you break lose because the viper should be way more capable than my shelby. Otherwise I have to go back an re evaluate getting the new vette.

I'm not surprised with a car that heavy. Put all that weight on the rear wheels of a Viper, I bet you won't spin then either....

 

[1BADGTS]

Traction is a bit more complex than torque versus tire width.

Ps what you got in that Gen 2 .In the 90s I had a worked NA Gen 2 that I used to compete with in the Viper National Drag Racing events the VCA used to sponcer .In its day it used to run 11.2 at near 131 (stock tires all motor )Today the bone stock cars are faster its amazing what they are now able to do .In 96 no one ever fathomed a totally stock anything would be 10 second capable and streetable to boot

 

[1BADGTS]

I'm not surprised with a car that heavy. Put all that weight on the rear wheels of a Viper, I bet you won't spin then either....

Exactly my buddys got the 500 horse 08 and the new 666 horse 12 and they are totally different POWERBANDS in comparasion to a Gen 4 The Mustangs powerbands mimic that of a Gen 2 in that they are predictable .The new Shelby has a ton of power but it starts low and is totally boost progressive .The Vipers a lightswitch in comparasion .I let my engine builder (built me GEN 2 )take my 4 around town and he couldn't believe it was a 10 second car untill got on a highway and got that cam to advance

 

[SilveRT8]

Once I was bringing my Gen 4 to storage late in dec and that day the temp was -10F.
I drove it about 40 miles on the PS2 on both highway and street, yes it was slippery as hell, but I babied the throttle and made it safely
Summer goes by quickly in Quebec, so I drove it often in temps between 30 and 50F when I felt the urge to go for a ride. AS long as you dont go crazy with the throttle all is fine.

 

[SRTviper]

Alright so it appears the winter tire combo will be fine. I wanted to see if I could get away with another summer tire that is good in cold like the michelin PSS but perhaps that would be pushing it? Has anyone driven their vipers in 30 degrees with the PSS tire? Also how is the viper a 10 second car? If it is thats great but motortrend got it at 11.3 I think it was which was as fast as a zr1.

 

[SRTviper]

Exactly my buddys got the 500 horse 08 and the new 666 horse 12 and they are totally different POWERBANDS in comparasion to a Gen 4 The Mustangs powerbands mimic that of a Gen 2 in that they are predictable .The new Shelby has a ton of power but it starts low and is totally boost progressive .The Vipers a lightswitch in comparasion .I let my engine builder (built me GEN 2 )take my 4 around town and he couldn't believe it was a 10 second car untill got on a highway and got that cam to advance

I have a 2013 so it has 663 hp and 631 tq. So how is the powerband of the viper? I thought as most N/A cars that the higher you go in the RPM the faster it goes so the band is more linear and not flat like the shelby. At 1500 RPM the shelby is producing 500 pounds of tq. Right now in my shelby I really have to drive like a ***** to break it loose. Even in the cold. I have to drive straight up retard for it to get wiggly on me. I'm just assuming the viper has a higher threshold for monkey business than the shelby does.

 

[PeerBlock]

I have a 2013 so it has 663 hp and 631 tq. So how is the powerband of the viper? I thought as most N/A cars that the higher you go in the RPM the faster it goes so the band is more linear and not flat like the shelby. At 1500 RPM the shelby is producing 500 pounds of tq. Right now in my shelby I really have to drive like a ***** to break it loose. Even in the cold. I have to drive straight up retard for it to get wiggly on me. I'm just assuming the viper has a higher threshold for monkey business than the shelby does.

A supercharged engine has a similar power band to a NA motor, which is wide and flat...and contrary to popular belief, S/Cs have lag but it's not as pronounced as a turbo because the S/C doesn't need to spool up. In any case, if you take your GT500 out on a cool evening then drop the hammer in 1st gear and don't break the rear end loose I'd be surprised. Your car must have a really good TCS.

 

[1BADGTS]

Alright so it appears the winter tire combo will be fine. I wanted to see if I could get away with another summer tire that is good in cold like the michelin PSS but perhaps that would be pushing it? Has anyone driven their vipers in 30 degrees with the PSS tire? Also how is the viper a 10 second car? If it is thats great but motortrend got it at 11.3 I think it was which was as fast as a zr1.

Google Jamie Furman makes 10 second run in stock Gen 4 Viper (its extremely hard to do but has been done .Powers not the issue traction is )As far as driving the car in 30 degree temps on the PSS tire as I posted previously I live in NJ and have driven my various cars all winter (sometimes in 20 degree temps )you must be careful as the margin for error is totally different

 

[1BADGTS]

As far as the powerband in regards to a GT-500 for the tenth time you have got to drive the Viper The cam in cam design of the motor in the Gen 4 ) has cased many people traction issues(many Gen 4s were wrecked when they first came out because of it ) .Again as I posted previously I had a heavily modded Gen 2 in the mid 90s that made about the same power as a stock Gen 4 ,The powerband on the 2 was much like that of your Mustang and different than the Gen 4

 

[SRTviper]

A supercharged engine has a similar power band to a NA motor, which is wide and flat...and contrary to popular belief, S/Cs have lag but it's not as pronounced as a turbo because the S/C doesn't need to spool up. In any case, if you take your GT500 out on a cool evening then drop the hammer in 1st gear and don't break the rear end loose I'd be surprised. Your car must have a really good TCS.

Never tried that. I never floor the car. I always gradually go into the throttle. Flooring a high performance car is exactly the way to lose control and get in an accident. I always drive very smoothly with everything. I don't do anything suddenly because that is what causes people to lose control. Maybe thats why I don't think the shelby is a big deal or even the viper. This is how I was taught to drive these cars by this guy at my ford dealership that did NASCAR.

 

[1BADGTS]

PS the magazine record for a Viper is 11.2 at close to 130 (Muscle Mustang And Fast Ford )did it testing my Gen 4 .Still trying to get my hands on a Gen 5 for them to test

 

[commandomatt]

Never tried that. I never floor the car. I always gradually go into the throttle. Flooring a high performance car is exactly the way to lose control and get in an accident. I always drive very smoothly with everything. I don't do anything suddenly because that is what causes people to lose control. Maybe thats why I don't think the shelby is a big deal or even the viper. This is how I was taught to drive these cars by this guy at my ford dealership that did NASCAR.

Well, hell.....if you went to 'Ford Dealership NASCAR Driving School', then you will surely not have any issue driving a Viper in any conditions......

Really, from the get go you are asking how a car, that is just now being delivered to customers, will act when driving in extreme cold conditions. Who do you figure will be able to get you an answer other than pure speculation ? Ask these questions after next winter and you may be getting some real life feedback.

Are you on the Vette forums asking those guys how the new ZR1 will be acting in the cold conditions as well ??

You keep insisting on bringing up your Shelby as a comparison yet seem to fail to realize that these are two completely different vehicles. The Shelby is an overpowered muscle car (and I like that for what it is) and the Viper is a extremely capable high performance car.

For some reason you have it in your mind that it will be such an easy car to drive. I am not sure where you are getting this idea from. As suggested before, if you can not get to drive in a Gen V then try to get a ride in a Gen IV. You would get a first hand experience on how mind blowing these machines are.

Then when you have that behind you, you will be able to take in the feedback from all those that are now getting theirs V's and comparing them to the IV's they have or had. This will get you a better idea of the differences.

Bottom line is that you need to get behind the wheel (or passenger seat) of a Viper....any Viper, so that you quit making all these assumptions on how you think these car work based on what you 'have heard' or read.

Matt

 

[PeerBlock]

Never tried that. I never floor the car. I always gradually go into the throttle. Flooring a high performance car is exactly the way to lose control and get in an accident. I always drive very smoothly with everything. I don't do anything suddenly because that is what causes people to lose control. Maybe thats why I don't think the shelby is a big deal or even the viper. This is how I was taught to drive these cars by this guy at my ford dealership that did NASCAR.

People lose control when they unexpectedly exceed the limits of their vehicle and this happens when they don't understand how their car will react in a particular situation, and even for experienced drivers it's not always possible to predict. You're basically telling us that you drive like granny which is all well and good, but there's no point to having a car like the GT500 or Viper if you're not going to get on it sometimes...and that plays into my point about temperature. You will be able to drive the Viper more aggressively in warm weather, whereas in cold you will have to baby it most of the time in the interests of safety. I can also assure you 100% that driving a Viper compared to the GT500 is going to be as drastic of a change in feel as it was going from a normal "point A to B" car to your GT500. If the Viper was just another fast car with nothing else to show for itself it wouldn't have the following that it has. I didn't know what to expect before I got one but after driving mine I can say that it's a very unique driving experience and a machine whose power demands respect.

 

[SRTviper]

Well, hell.....if you went to 'Ford Dealership NASCAR Driving School', then you will surely not have any issue driving a Viper in any conditions......

Really, from the get go you are asking how a car, that is just now being delivered to customers, will act when driving in extreme cold conditions. Who do you figure will be able to get you an answer other than pure speculation ? Ask these questions after next winter and you may be getting some real life feedback.

Are you on the Vette forums asking those guys how the new ZR1 will be acting in the cold conditions as well ??

You keep insisting on bringing up your Shelby as a comparison yet seem to fail to realize that these are two completely different vehicles. The Shelby is an overpowered muscle car (and I like that for what it is) and the Viper is a extremely capable high performance car.

For some reason you have it in your mind that it will be such an easy car to drive. I am not sure where you are getting this idea from. As suggested before, if you can not get to drive in a Gen V then try to get a ride in a Gen IV. You would get a first hand experience on how mind blowing these machines are.

Then when you have that behind you, you will be able to take in the feedback from all those that are now getting theirs V's and comparing them to the IV's they have or had. This will get you a better idea of the differences.

Bottom line is that you need to get behind the wheel (or passenger seat) of a Viper....any Viper, so that you quit making all these assumptions on how you think these car work based on what you 'have heard' or read.

Matt

I don't need to ask about the zr1 because I can fit winter tires on it easily. The viper is a bit more pain in the ass because the tires are so wide. Also nothing wrong with doing a few lessons with someone who was in NASCAR to learn a high powered car. The shelby was my first. Also I've driven a zr1 and it was fine.

 

[SRTviper]

People lose control when they unexpectedly exceed the limits of their vehicle and this happens when they don't understand how their car will react in a particular situation, and even for experienced drivers it's not always possible to predict. You're basically telling us that you drive like granny which is all well and good, but there's no point to having a car like the GT500 or Viper if you're not going to get on it sometimes...and that plays into my point about temperature. You will be able to drive the Viper more aggressively in warm weather, whereas in cold you will have to baby it most of the time in the interests of safety. I can also assure you 100% that driving a Viper compared to the GT500 is going to be as drastic of a change in feel as it was going from a normal "point A to B" car to your GT500. If the Viper was just another fast car with nothing else to show for itself it wouldn't have the following that it has. I didn't know what to expect before I got one but after driving mine I can say that it's a very unique driving experience and a machine whose power demands respect.

There is a difference between getting on it correctly and being stupid and flooring it all over the place. Thats the difference between people who wreck their cars and those who can enjoy it properly. If that makes me a granny then at least I am granny who won't wreck the car.

 

[PeerBlock]

There is a difference between getting on it correctly and being stupid and flooring it all over the place. Thats the difference between people who wreck their cars and those who can enjoy it properly. If that makes me a granny then at least I am granny who won't wreck the car.

A good driver will know their vehicle limits on a given surface, and will have a sense of what to expect based on differing road and weather conditions. If all you ever do is putt around like granny then you'll have no sense of what your vehicle will do if it catches you off guard. You should know how to react if the driving situation catches you off guard because if you don't your chances to wreck while driving slowly are just as high as they would be if you were driving carelessly.