First Day of Repairs for Leaking Head Gaskets!

[phiebert]

Keep us posted, I may have to go this route soon too.

 

[dansauto]

yikes-you guys are getting screwed. I am having it done now. My Tech is doing it in my shop during the evening (after he gets done at the Chrysler dealership) Total costs $650 (plus a case of Labatts)

 

[Vip-RT10]

Wow, keep us informed....I need to do that relatively soon, in March when I get back home...Is i aweful to see you car in pieces? Why new head bolts? Is it a standard procedure that I don't know about?

 

[Makara]

When did you know that you needed the head gaskets to be replaced?

 

[FRANK]

Well thanks for the kudos...i think that many people here think I am some wacker who knows nothing. I do alot of wrenching on cars and just recently opened up a shop where I do alot of side work for extra $$$.

Believe in the "keep it simple" principle. It cracks me up when people start crying Arrow Rebuild and so on. What makes me laugh even more is when they proclaim after the motor was rebuilt by Arrow that "it is even stronger now."

Do you actually bellieve it is stronger? Or are you just like the idea of kidding yourself? DO you think they shot peen the rods or do something special? They may go over the parts and replace **** but ask me if I care what they do...

When the herd of sheep goes one way...I go in the opposite direction. I have always done so and it paid off for me. There are too many sheep on this BBS being led by benchbuilders here who have no idea of what's going on for real....

Again, thanks BFEGYPT for some credit...you'll be a happy camper in a few days when you're back in the car driving while everyone else's cars are sitting collecting dust waiting for an engine R&R...hoping that nothing gets damaged in the process....

 

[JonB]

But if your motor was UNDER WARRANTY and an Arrow Rebuild was offered (ie for FREE) a person would be a M - - - N not to accept the (FREE) ARROW REBUILD, for the 23-complete return-to-spec (FREE) improvements the motor gets.

The locking liners (making them 'stronger') are especially nice.
(FREE)

IF YOU ARE ENTITLED TO AN ARROW REBUILD - DO IT !!
(FREE)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FRANK:
There are too many sheep on this BBS being led by benchbuilders here who have no idea of what's going on for real....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I agree with that 100% Frank, I also agree with JonB as to why not let Arrow rebuild it if it's under warranty? Maybe the 8 to 12 week wait would be a reason.

My bigger question is, did you have any head work done while the heads were off? Seems like a good time to pick up an extra 50 hp.

 

[Rich Detert]

Sometimes you can get away with just doing headgaskets on a GEN 1 and it will cure the coolant leaks, but sometimes it takes more.


Frank may disagree, but to me the Extended Warranty is some thing I wouldn't want to live without on a Viper (If at all possible). It was the best money I ever spent on a car. I usually don't buy the extended warranties, but the previous owner had allready purchased it on my car so all I had to do was transfer it for a nominal fee.

I had the headgaskets done on my 94 last July in hopes of curing the constant coolant leaks. By November they were leaking again.
In mid December (after finally getting the OK from DC) the engine from my car was shipped to Arrow.

I just got the word this week that they were going to have to ship out a completely different engine because the block from mine wasn't reuseable. The block was so far out of spec where the cylinder liner o-rings seat that it was pretty much a piece of scrap aluminum. It also had serious corrosion problems internally. Keep in mind that the engine ran great, it just leaked coolant (slowly, but constantly).

Arrow shipped out a replacement engine which has been dynoed and is supposed to be building more HP than stock (supposed to get dyno numbers on the replacement engine).

The original engine was putting out 393 RWHP and 467 FT Lbs RWT which I thought was pretty good for a GEN 1, hopefully the new one will at least have similar numbers.

I'm not afraid to turn a wrench on my cars and do most work on all my other cars myself. But lets face it, with what most Viper parts cost the warranty pays for it's self pretty fast if you have a major repair.

The warranty has save me major $$$$$$$$$ one more time!

 

[94 RT/10 Black MAMBA]

Frank is an opinionated IDIOT - Let me retort.

I just had the ARROW warranty rebuild (6 weeks). I thought my engine was fine except for the heads leaking, however let me tell you what they also did "FOR FREE FRANK" (verbatum per the failure report supplied by Arrow).

- Upon receipt of your engine, we found several things wrong. Both cylinder head gaskets were leaking coolant and the thermostat crossover was leaking too. The main housing bore was out of spec by .0001 to .0003 and had to be align honed to repair. Flywheel needed to be replaced.
The block was sent back to the original manufacture for counter bores and redecking.
The engine was then reassembled using all new parts including the crankshaft, camshaft with lifters, piston/rod assemblies, cylinder liners, timing chain set, front cover with oil pump, thermostat, water pump, rod and main bearings, spark plugs and wires. With new gaskets and seals, the rebuild is complete.
The engine was then sent to our dyno shop for a two-hour break in period with three W.O.T. power runs to confirm the engine met the rated horsepower and torque numbers. These were both exceeded. A cylinder leak down and compression test was performed, and a special oberg oil filter was inspected and after a final check for any external oil leaks the engine was prepared for return shipment.

Note the above, NEW crank, cam, lifters, pistons, yadda, yadda, yadda. Now I don't know about every one else with a warranty, but "Frank" doesn't want all these new parts or geometric machining improvements. He would rather use a little "duct tape and baling wire" and be done with it. PLEASE!!!

 

[FRANK]

Hey Paul....you can call me what you like...but let's face it if you were to "retort" and call me an idiot to my face you geezer you'd have a bigger problem than when your headgaskets were leaking. Funny thing is that some ******* at a bar just this past Saturday "retorted" some crap to me and wound up getting choked outside...

Use you imagination. Keep talking the talk pal...and I hope when your warranty runs out that Arrow rebuild implodes...

Have a nice day Paul...

 

[Mopar Steve]

In answer to the question "Why replace the head bolts", these are torque to yeild bolts. That means, when the bolts are torqued to spec, they stretch, and therefore must be replaced each time they are removed. small price to pay, to be sure everything is buttoned up good and tight.

My question is this, if the heads are removed, and there is extensive work to be done,(liners shifted etc.) is the warranty void because you opened it up? and pulled the heads? If the head bolts are not removed in the correct order the heads can be damaged.

hmmmm?

 

[FRANK]

Steve,

I've pulled alot of aluminum heads off of cars and never heard that heads could be damaged through loosening the bolts. If you were concerned about it you could always break all of them loose first as evenly as possible...

I am curious as to the correct ft. lbs. for the heads. In the service manual it was something like 30 foot pounds plus 3/4 turn...I cannot remember...seems oughtful low. I do remember someone who did this job and just torqued them down to 110 ft. lbs. This may be a good question for Doug Levin or the Viper Wizard who does Viper head jobs left and rigth...

 

[FRANK]

Steve,

I've pulled alot of aluminum heads off of cars and never heard that heads could be damaged through loosening the bolts. If you were concerned about it you could always break all of them loose first as evenly as possible...

I am curious as to the correct ft. lbs. for the heads. In the service manual it was something like 30 foot pounds plus 3/4 turn...I cannot remember...seems oughtful low. I do remember someone who did this job and just torqued them down to 110 ft. lbs. This may be a good question for Doug Levin or the Viper Wizard who does Viper head jobs left and rigth...

 

[garolittle]

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Correct head bolt torque is 30 ft lb + 1/4 turn. This is a fairly normal amount of pre-torque and angle for head bolts. On torque to yield fasteners, tightening to a specified torque instead of the recommended tightening procedure will result in a lower torque (i.e. not achieving yield torque) or over yielding as the angular input is uncontrolled. If you want to know the achieved torque is apply the 1/4 turn with a torque wrench (offers good visual accuracy for the 1/4 turn as well).

Note numbers above are GenI. GenII torque is 35 ft lb + 1/4 turn.

 

[Viperrick]

Dr. Speed, Should you not also use the torque sequence in reverse when loosening the head bolts? I think that is the way I was taught on older motors. Since you have a lot of knowledge on the subject, is it true that because it is an aluminum motor, you have to be careful with how many times the head bolts are removed and retightened. I heard that someone had to junk a R&D aluminum motor because, he had taken it apart so many times, that the threads just crumbled.

 

[Old 93 Viper]

How do you know if you are entitled to an Arrow rebuild?

 

[Phil Lee 94 red RT]

Hey bfegypt
Who is doing the work. Is it Maxwells?