First poor sales transaction on the forums.

[TowDawg]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

Considering he's been online (and is currently on), it tells a lot that he hasn't chimed in at all to tell his side of the story. Not sure how much there is to tell, based on how he responded to the OP's ***, but if it were me getting trashed and I had any sort of different story, you can bet your ass that I'd be on this thread in my own defense.
Just my $.2.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

That's pretty much a law school 101 fraud. Seller made statments that he knew or should have known to be false (he knew his item had scratches and he used a photo of an item that was not his). He intended for the hearer to rely on those statements (posted the misleading wording and photo in a "for sale" ad). The hearer had no reason to believe the statements were false (hearer had not seen the merchandise in person and was viewing what was represented as a piece in perfect condition). Hearer changed his position in reliance on those statements (he spent money to purchase the merchandise). Hearer was damaged (didn't get merchandise in perfect condition, merchandise is worth less than what was paid).

Anyone telling the buyer that it's his problem is mistaken, at least legally. Practically, is it worth suing the guy over? Maybe not. Did the seller clearly commit a fraud? Unless there are facts which are different than those provided in this thread, I'd say yes.

If OP's facts are true (and there is no reason at this point to doubt that they are), I would think permanently banning the seller from ever posting in the classifieds would be the start to a fair punishment.

 

[BlknBlu]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

Whether it was an honest or dishonest mistake, the seller if still a Viper owner or at least VCA member should come clean and work with the buyer to rectify the situation. We have only heard one side of the story and there are always 2 sides. to remain a good member they should both work it out and move on.

Bruce

 

[ACRucrazy]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

If OP's facts are true (and there is no reason at this point to doubt that they are), I would think permanently banning the seller from ever posting in the classifieds would be the start to a fair punishment.

My facts are true. We exchanged 4 emails about purchasing. I made an offer. He countered. We set up payment info. I clarified payment. It's part of the reason I took a screen shot of the Classified ad, so everyone could see what I saw. The ad states it was in perfect condition. At no time in the 4 emails did he mention otherwise.

After I received the part in the condition shown on Sat, I sent my first PM a few mins later, which was not returned. I kept an eye and saw he was on the forums at least twice that day. He did not respond. On Sun I sent a follow up PM with the same info as my first. My first PM to him started as

I received the panel today.While I was excited to get it, I am disappointed in the condition as it is not in perfect condition as the ad describes or pictured.

At first I thought it was rub marks from the K&N tray, but I come to find out from others it's from the hood?

Regardless the item said it was described as perfect. As you all can see it's far from it.I didn't want to copy and paste all of the emails and *** because I have seen people do that and it just turns into a TLDR "Too Long Didn't Read" and no one cares.

I didn't leave anything out that mattered, I just didn't want to share a novel of a first post. This one already feels too long. By all means if Joshua feels the story is different he is more than welcome to post. I wanted to share my feedback that a VCA member felt it was acceptable to deal like this. I appreciate all the feedback and thoughts on the matter. I agree, poor business such as this should not be allowed on the forums. I have been taken a few times over the years on other forums, I held VCA forum members to a higher standard I guess. I will call Paypal after work.

Thanks all.

 

[KNG SNKE]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

Did you do the charge back yet?

 

[ACRucrazy]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

No, do should I do that before I contact Paypal? I have had 100% clean Paypal account since about 1998. I figured I would contact Paypal first.

 

[KNG SNKE]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

Paypal resolution center is garbage. This is up to you though.

 

[agdetail]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

wow all this over a simple part. everyone makes mistakes, so just own up, fix it and move on.

 

[mad0953]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

It's far from a mistake. I would not sell a part as "perfect" unless it was....bottom line. If the person I sold it to was not happy I'd offer a refund or a return....not ? asked. In this case if I had sold the CF thingy I'd offer the buyer a $100 refund. Any Viper owner that can't afford a hundred bucks shouldn't have a Viper!!

 

[KNG SNKE]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

wow all this over a simple part. everyone makes mistakes, so just own up, fix it and move on.

You my friend, are entertaining. Bad customer service, bad business conducted, and the person who got ripped off should just own up and move on? The price of the situation holds no bearing on the principle and man do I hope you don't own your own business. A mistake in saying it was perfect and it wasn't is not likely my friend. Now I remember why I needed to take a break from the forums, some of the **** said on here just plain doesn't make sense.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

This issue should be referred to a National Officer for consideration of disciplinary action against the seller. Article II Section 3 of the by laws allows the Board to take action based on conduct of a VCA member. They have suspended others and they could suspend this guy.

 

[Voodoo Rob]

Hey seller! Step-up and work this out with the buyer. You know the quality of the part, the buyer isn't scamming you.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

wow all this over a simple part. everyone makes mistakes, so just own up, fix it and move on.

I have some very nice stuff I'd like to sell you. Whatcha need? It's all in perfect condition.

 

[plumcrazy]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

thats BS. seller needs to man up

 

[VCA Forum Staff]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

I believe this is the first time we've encountered a disagreement between a seller and buyer over a VCA classified ad. We are closing the thread so that we can talk to both parties and determine what the best course of action will be. In the meantime, the thread will stay up but remain closed to allow both parties to work out the problem. We will encourage both the buyer and seller to post the outcome, if any, on the matter. As for disciplinary action we will review which appropriate action to take and post the result here.

VCA Forum Staff

 

[ACRucrazy]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

I would like to just update this topic as allowed by the forum staff.

First I would like to thank ViperTony for trying to help out. From 1/22-1/25 he tried playing "middle man" to come to a resolution here on the forums between me and the seller. We were unable to reach a solution that would work out for the both of us. Ultimately I just wanted to return the panel and get my money back which the seller was only willing to refund $100.

Since that did not work for me I opened a dispute with PayPal on 1/25. I didn't have much faith as I have gone down this road before. Paypal closed the dispute on 1/31 siding with the seller. I called PayPal on 1/31 as the case notes gave incorrect explanations, they basically had the seller and buyer info backwards. The lady on the phone at PayPal took my information, understood where I was coming from and agreed the case should be opened back up. They reopened the case and the lady on the phone made it sound hopeful that I should get my money back based on everything I had provided to begin with. Several days later PayPal closed the case and sided with the seller once again. I called PayPal and asked for an explanation and was given that they do not guarantee condition, only delivery and tracking information showed that it was delivered and even though the part is scratched its still functional. I asked if I had bought $500 home speakers that were scratched but still functional would they see it the same way. I was told that its "different" for car parts.

On 2/16 I opened a dispute with my credit card company. That was a long drawn out process. I priority mailed all the documents I had to them that week. During that time I had several phone conversations about the dispute. The case got extended because apparently they never received the documents in the mail and the case automatically closed around the first of March. I then had to fax them all that info after several more phone calls. After reviewing the info my credit card company requested more info yet to be faxed. I had to had to go to an independent shop, they had to state the condition of the part on a signed document with the shop name on the letterhead and fax that in. On 4/2 the credit card company refunded my money, closed the dispute.

The closed dispute opened a chargeback case with PayPal on 4/2, this case remained open for 10 days to give Joshua time to dispute the chargeback and provide any information around it. Nothing was provided and the chargeback case was closed with PayPal on 4/11.

Cliffs:

It took 3 months to get a refund and lots of back and forth BS. Unfortunately this refund did not come from Joshua or PayPal, so he did not receive his part back. This is something that could have been avoided if the part was accurately described or the seller was willing to refund the money like I requested within the first 15 minutes of receiving the part. I appreciate that the VCA Forum Staff tried to help out. Since all this has started I have spent about $6,000 with other sellers on the forums without issue and I thank them. I will continue to buy and sell here on the VCA, however I will make sure I am clear with questions and concerns I have prior to sending payment.

-The End

 

[PeterMJ]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

I would like to just update this topic as allowed by the forum staff.

First I would like to thank ViperTony for trying to help out. From 1/22-1/25 he tried playing "middle man" to come to a resolution here on the forums between me and the seller. We were unable to reach a solution that would work out for the both of us. Ultimately I just wanted to return the panel and get my money back which the seller was only willing to refund $100.

Since that did not work for me I opened a dispute with PayPal on 1/25. I didn't have much faith as I have gone down this road before. Paypal closed the dispute on 1/31 siding with the seller. I called PayPal on 1/31 as the case notes gave incorrect explanations, they basically had the seller and buyer info backwards. The lady on the phone at PayPal took my information, understood where I was coming from and agreed the case should be opened back up. They reopened the case and the lady on the phone made it sound hopeful that I should get my money back based on everything I had provided to begin with. Several days later PayPal closed the case and sided with the seller once again. I called PayPal and asked for an explanation and was given that they do not guarantee condition, only delivery and tracking information showed that it was delivered and even though the part is scratched its still functional. I asked if I had bought $500 home speakers that were scratched but still functional would they see it the same way. I was told that its "different" for car parts.

On 2/16 I opened a dispute with my credit card company. That was a long drawn out process. I priority mailed all the documents I had to them that week. During that time I had several phone conversations about the dispute. The case got extended because apparently they never received the documents in the mail and the case automatically closed around the first of March. I then had to fax them all that info after several more phone calls. After reviewing the info my credit card company requested more info yet to be faxed. I had to had to go to an independent shop, they had to state the condition of the part on a signed document with the shop name on the letterhead and fax that in. On 4/2 the credit card company refunded my money, closed the dispute.

The closed dispute opened a chargeback case with PayPal on 4/2, this case remained open for 10 days to give Joshua time to dispute the chargeback and provide any information around it. Nothing was provided and the chargeback case was closed with PayPal on 4/11.

Cliffs:

It took 3 months to get a refund and lots of back and forth BS. Unfortunately this refund did not come from Joshua or PayPal, so he did not receive his part back. This is something that could have been avoided if the part was accurately described or the seller was willing to refund the money like I requested within the first 15 minutes of receiving the part. I appreciate that the VCA Forum Staff tried to help out. Since all this has started I have spent about $6,000 with other sellers on the forums without issue and I thank them. I will continue to buy and sell here on the VCA, however I will make sure I am clear with questions and concerns I have prior to sending payment.

-The End

I do not think paypal will be happy about the charge back since it will have to pick up the tab but glad it worked out for you.

 

[chorps]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

I do not think paypal will be happy about the charge back since it will have to pick up the tab but glad it worked out for you.

Paypal ***** anyhow...they've screwed over dozens of people so I have no sympathy for them. Glad the buyer got his resolution.

 

[SRT09]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

Paypal ***** anyhow...they've screwed over dozens of people so I have no sympathy for them. Glad the buyer got his resolution.

X2 glad it worked out!

 

[08viperviolet]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

This thread was closed by the forum staff and not sure why it was reopened. I worked with the forum staff to resolve this dispute and ACRcrazy he had no intrest in working it out. I did what was required and gave paypal all the info they requested and they felt that I did not do anything in error. Acrcrazy should stop posting about me and if he found some way to get his money back good for him. I had not possed any responces in the past because I do not feel that this is something that should be posted on the forums or I should respond. It was between the buyer and myself. Please close and remove thread.

 

[Steve737]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

ACRucrazy I would be pissed too. Defiantly not as advertised. 08viperviolet care to comment?

 

[LifeIsGood]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

Please close and remove thread.

Dude, it's not going away. Clearly you have zero idea of the concept of 'Perfect Condition'.

You absolutely misrepresented this item. PERFECT CONDITION, that's a joke!

It was between the buyer and myself.

You're a VCA member and you had this item in the VCA Classifieds...it should absolutely be discussed here. It's good we know about your character so we know not to deal with you in the future. That's how it works. Too bad name calling isn't allowed on this site or I'd be ripping you a new one.

 

[ViperTony]

Re: First poor sales transaction on the forums. 08viperviolet

I am one of several moderators on this site and I often intervene in situations like this to try and mediate a solution between two club members. When I saw this thread posted I immediately contacted both the buyer and the seller to see if some kind of resolution could be achieved. I communicated with both parties in detail. Contrary to what the seller posted: ACRCrazy did indeed have interest to work out a solution as he has posted in this thread since the beginning. Unfortunately, the seller could not agree with the buyers solution (and vice-versa) and the seller took his documented course of action.

I don't believe either the buyer or the seller had any malicious intent with this situation. I don't know either party and both were a pleasure to work with. In essence, we tried to get the parties to resolve the problem on their own and that didn't happen. They were too far apart on the matter: the seller contending that the performance of the product makes it "perfect condition" while the buyer contending that the "damage" on the product doesn't match the pictures or the description in the ad. The staff here concluded that the product received did not match the description in the ad.

I have communicated this already to both parties but since the question was asked as to why the thread was reopened: The thread was closed to give both parties time to work out a solution as was posted by staff earlier in this thread. The thread was reopened to allow both parties to post a conclusion as is standard practice here. Neither the buyer or the seller were given preferential treatment in this situation. No would they or anyone else receive special treatment from me in a situation like this. Sorry. You can be pissed at me all you want but let's stick to the facts of the matter instead.

Unless the buyer requests this thread to be removed it will remain but closed since the matter is resolved.

Regards,
ViperTony ( . )( . )