For all the Z06 hand wringers....

[Hirohawa]

I never said I am getting the new Z. I am waiting till 07 to either way to see if Dodge comes back with something on the Viper Coupe. If not I will get an 07 Z with the first year bugs worked out.

Personally I like the looks of the Viper coupe better than the new Z. I think the new Coupe with racing stripes looks incredible (better than the SRT conv. IMO) and will really stick out while the new Z will recede into the background more.

But I need to take handling into account. For me the Z will be a good choice because I track my current Z and I think I would kill myself or total my Viper or any non Traction controlled sports car. Yes I am not Olivier Beretta - The safety net on the Z06 has saved me a few times - and makes tracking the car a no brainer.

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[VENOMAHOLIC]

I see 2002 Z06's with 12k on them in the $32-33k range within 25 miles. What did they go for new? $55-65k They depreciate faster than anything else. Wait a couple of years and get a 06 Z06 for $35-40k to use as a daily ****** when the Gen IV Viper comes out. Hopefully DC is reading this forum because criticism of the current can be used constructively for the future.

 

[Hirohawa]

I got my Z06 new in 02 for 47.5K. They most they stickered for was 51K.

 

[Vic]

Hey, thats Button Willow! Heh heh! Haven't been there for a while...I think I did 2:25 last time, Configuration 13, CCW. I need more seat time! And a less expensive track car.....

 

[Mopar426]

I see 2002 Z06's with 12k on them in the $32-33k range within 25 miles. What did they go for new? $55-65k They depreciate faster than anything else. Wait a couple of years and get a 06 Z06 for $35-40k to use as a daily ****** when the Gen IV Viper comes out. Hopefully DC is reading this forum because criticism of the current can be used constructively for the future.

I don't think they will depreciate as quickly as the C6 Z06. The built on average 6,000 C5 Z06's per year and GM stated the C6 Z06 production numbers "will be much less". Keep in mind they are hand building the LS7 engine rather than mass producing them. A 1995 ZR1 still commands $40-50K )avegerage of $45K) when they sold for $63K new.

 

[Hirohawa]

You are correct sir. Buttonwillow is a blast.

I head out of the sweeper at about 85 and hit 135 on the back straight and about 110 on the front. I beleive we ran 13CCW that day.

WIsh I could go more.

Hope to see you there one day.

Hey, thats Button Willow! Heh heh! Haven't been there for a while...I think I did 2:25 last time, Configuration 13, CCW. I need more seat time! And a less expensive track car.....

 

[Gerald]

I still call ********...

What does the comp coupe do in the 1/4? 520/530TQ, 2800 Lbs.. 11.7 at 123-124 .. BUT WAIT.. the new corvette with 500HP and 3100 lbs is going to do it in 127?



G

 

[Big Medicine]

Exactly.

 

[Mopar426]

I still call ********...

What does the comp coupe do in the 1/4? 520/530TQ, 2800 Lbs.. 11.7 at 123-124 .. BUT WAIT.. the new corvette with 500HP and 3100 lbs is going to do it in 127?



G

No manufactor has EVER underated power, all those Big Blocks in the 60's really made the 400hp yet running low 12's in the 1/4 on bias ply 215/70/15 tires.

Mag racing is ***, just wait until we have firsthand times from BOTH cars.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Mopar - they were generally F70-15 back then (no rightful tire would have millimeters on it back in the 60's).

The new hp ratings for both the vette and the Viper are 2nd party certified. No OEM bs possible.

The main thing about Motor Trend is that they adjust their measured times and speeds before publishing them. So their 127 mph run could be done only in la la land. 127 seems awefully strong for 505 hp no matter how well the car is run. The only true eval will be same day same track (assuming good drivers, etc) with production cars (not specially prepped OEM cars).

 

[Gerald]

I still call ********...

What does the comp coupe do in the 1/4? 520/530TQ, 2800 Lbs.. 11.7 at 123-124 .. BUT WAIT.. the new corvette with 500HP and 3100 lbs is going to do it in 127?



G

No manufactor has EVER underated power, all those Big Blocks in the 60's really made the 400hp yet running low 12's in the 1/4 on bias ply 215/70/15 tires.

Mag racing is ***, just wait until we have firsthand times from BOTH cars.

I dont think anyone is mag racing 'cept vette nutswingers. Check out the times for ppl that took the comp coupe down the stttttrrriiiipppp

 

[Bwright]

Also, by what facts do you state that no one is buying the SRT? Sales figures or vette speak (otherwise known as Chevy trash talk)?

According to Automotive News, year 2004 Viper sales of 1,782 units represented a 15% drop from the 2,103 units sold in 2003. In 2005 this double-digit decline continues unabated with YTD sales of the Viper through the end of August (1,059 units) down 17% from the same time period in 2004 (1,279 units).

Trust me when I tell you that, no matter how brave a face Dodge puts on things, this sort of continuous double-digit year-over-year decline CANNOT be countenanced much longer. The Coupe has to juice sales for at least a year and beyond or the Come to Jesus time that nobody here seems to grasp will be sooner rather than later.

 

[Mopar426]

According to Automotive News, year 2004 Viper sales of 1,782 units represented a 15% drop from the 2,103 units sold in 2003. In 2005 this double-digit decline continues unabated with YTD sales of the Viper through the end of August (1,059 units) down 17% from the same time period in 2004 (1,279 units).

Trust me when I tell you that, no matter how brave a face Dodge puts on things, this sort of continuous double-digit year-over-year decline CANNOT be countenanced much longer. The Coupe has to juice sales for at least a year and beyond or the Come to Jesus time that nobody here seems to grasp will be sooner rather than later.

I'm some will see declining sales as a GOOD thing. Less Vipers purchased = less Vipers on the road = more exclusive car. Sadly that's all some here care about.

 

[FikseGTS]

comp coupe is close to 3,000 pounds....

I still call ********...

What does the comp coupe do in the 1/4? 520/530TQ, 2800 Lbs.. 11.7 at 123-124 .. BUT WAIT.. the new corvette with 500HP and 3100 lbs is going to do it in 127?



G

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

I am 33 and want to be able to buy a new Viper in my 40's. The truth is that DC is no longer an American company. If Dodge was still independent then we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Viper was designed to appeal to specifically the American market in a way that took inspiration from the Shelby Cobras of the past that spanked the Europeans at Lemans. DC does not have this inspiration as they favor the Mercedes race heritage.

Has anybody seen a Mercedes at a local drag strip? Does anybody in America get excited or even care when they see a Mercedes at Watkins Glen?

If the Viper gets discontinued it is because DC is a European maker and does not share the inspiration of the Cobra or care if the Viper is still racing.

I personally do not want the VCA and this forum to be about a car no longer made like the MG Midget or Fiero car clubs. (not making car comparisons just examples) What American car company could fill the void left by the Viper? For the Viper to survive DC must let Dodge invest in keeping it current and true to the concept car in some way. Again IMO the Gen IV will tell the future of the Viper.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Also, by what facts do you state that no one is buying the SRT? Sales figures or vette speak (otherwise known as Chevy trash talk)?

According to Automotive News, year 2004 Viper sales of 1,782 units represented a 15% drop from the 2,103 units sold in 2003. In 2005 this double-digit decline continues unabated with YTD sales of the Viper through the end of August (1,059 units) down 17% from the same time period in 2004 (1,279 units).

Trust me when I tell you that, no matter how brave a face Dodge puts on things, this sort of continuous double-digit year-over-year decline CANNOT be
countenanced much longer. The Coupe has to juice sales for at least a year and beyond or the Come to Jesus time that nobody here seems to grasp will be sooner rather than later.

That's really interesting. the numbers that have been quoted here on more than one thread are below...Now these are not MY numbers, but seem to have been accepted here. So, is the difference perhaps in what Dodge has quoted as sold to dealers as opposed to what is still sitting on the dealers lots? That might make sense. There are a lot of cars on dealers lots. And I don't see ANY decline in these numbers.

01 1178
02 1622

03 1875
04 2435

 

[Viperfreak2]

Has anybody seen a Mercedes at a local drag strip? Does anybody in America get excited or even care when they see a Mercedes at Watkins Glen?

Yes, A brand new E55 WAGON came to the strip and torched the Mustangs, Cumaros, and Vettes. There have been many SL55's do the same thing.

 

[Gerald]

comp coupe is close to 3,000 pounds....

I still call ********...

What does the comp coupe do in the 1/4? 520/530TQ, 2800 Lbs.. 11.7 at 123-124 .. BUT WAIT.. the new corvette with 500HP and 3100 lbs is going to do it in 127?



G

I was told by a wanna be owner 2,800. I stand corrected.. Still lighter than the Z06..

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Comp Coupes are now down to 3100 lbs in the World Challenge Series , and they run a 35% restrictor plate, so they are no where near the power listed. The Comp Coupe for Viper Days is around 3200 lbs if I remember correctly.

 

[SnakeBitten]

C&D had a test of the comp coupe where it did 130 in the 1/4 mile....Heres a quote from the article.

"The Viper Competition is fantastically quick. Its monster 8.3-liter aluminum V-10 effortlessly yanks the car around, and it's so torquey (540 pound-feet at 4600 rpm) that it makes downshifting feel like an option. With help from the grippy 13.6-inch-wide Hoosier racing slicks, the Competition Coupe flashed to 60 mph in only 3.1 seconds, passed 100 in 7.0 seconds, and tripped the quarter-mile in 11.2 seconds at 130 mph."

Heres the whole article... http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=26&article_id=8120&page_number=1

Unfortunately, this article shows just how impressive the new Z06 is...Its not far off a Viper comp coupe in "acceleration". And heres the kicker...The Z06 is this close to the ultimate Gen III Viper shod with SLICKS while it used STREET TIRES to knock down these incredible numbers...You have to give the Z06 kudos and alot of respect..To not acknowledge this cars incredible performance is foolish..Will it beat a comp coupe on a roadcourse? Hell no..But it will give it a run on a straightaway...Nothing short of impressive...The new SRT Coupe will have to come correct to handle this beast...Heres to hoping DC has finally woken up...

 

[Mopar426]

Comp Coupes are now down to 3100 lbs in the World Challenge Series , and they run a 35% restrictor plate, so they are no where near the power listed. The Comp Coupe for Viper Days is around 3200 lbs if I remember correctly.

Why are the cars still that heavy when they are race cars? The cars com stripped of rafios, a/c, etc and it's still 3100-3200lbs? Loaded C5 Z06 were 3050lbs and the C6Z05 is 3130lbs complete with a/c, radio, navigatiion, heated seats???

Just trying to understand were all the weight is at?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Why are the cars still that heavy when they are race cars? The cars com stripped of rafios, a/c, etc and it's still 3100-3200lbs? Loaded C5 Z06 were 3050lbs and the C6Z05 is 3130lbs complete with a/c, radio, navigatiion, heated seats???

Just trying to understand were all the weight is at?

Roll cage, fire suppression system, oversized cooling equipment.

 

[Bwright]

That's really interesting. the numbers that have been quoted here on more than one thread are below...Now these are not MY numbers, but seem to have been accepted here. So, is the difference perhaps in what Dodge has quoted as sold to dealers as opposed to what is still sitting on the dealers lots? That might make sense. There are a lot of cars on dealers lots. And I don't see ANY decline in these numbers.

01 1178
02 1622

03 1875
04 2435

It is unlikely that those numbers are correct. Checked the production numbers as you wisely suggested but those do not gel either. Give me a link to the thread(s) that quoted these numbers. I am curious as to who gave them and if they cited a source. In any event, I am 100% confident that my figures are correct as my 2004 sales figure (and YOY 15% drop) and 2003 numbers, for example, can be corroborated on DCX's own website.

http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/Projects/c2c/channel/documents/599423_ir_50104_CG_Sales.pdf

So I would be particularly curious as to how the other source quoted on this site got their numbers and would encourage them to share their wisdom and math with DCX which could probably use the boost.

At your convenience please.

 

[GR8_ASP]

So ... the vette is faster from 60 mph to the 1/4 than a higher hp/lighter weight comp coupe on slicks. Derived from 3.1 vs 3.7 0-60 (.6 second difference) and 11.2 vs 11.7 1/4 mile (.5 second difference), thus the Z06 is reportedly faster from 60 to the 1/4 and has a lower trap speed (130 vs 127). Right???