2k1droptop
Enthusiast
They sure are lucky for you to tell them how dumb the are. If anything you are making the Viper guys look bad. I don't understand why people can't like both cars. I am looking to add a Viper with my current Vette.
FORD GT vs.Z06 vs. VIPER. TESTED!!!!!!!
- Thread starter sween
- Start date
Never been on the track with one so I have no idea. But I can speak for what I have experienced. Why don't you look up Viper Days info as they go at it at Gingerman as well. Then you can call them liars as well. From memory my lap times are around 2:35 (I believe).
vipah
Enthusiast
I'm just trying to reconsile things.
I looked at Viper Days, and they don'w show top speed.
http://www.viperdays.com/gingerman2005.html
Do you have a better link?
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
Road Atlanta has 'short' and 'long' versions....2:35 is nowhere near the 1:33 times in the mag, so maybe you were running the extendo course with a longer and straighter back straight???
Steve 00RT/10
Enthusiast
At Gingerman, with a stock rear end, most average Viper drivers will get into 3rd gear and stay there. My first year there, I saw around 112,114,115 on the back straight in question. I then put a 3:45 rear end in my car. The tables for this gearing with stock Pilot Sports show 107 MPH or so to fuel cutoff. The next time we went to Gingerman with the 3:45 gears, I routinely hit the rev limiter on the back straight. I still had a second or better of time to go faster. This year I got into 4th instead of winding out 3rd so far and running out of gear. GR8 ASP has been there when I was. I timed him, unofficially, in the mid to upper 1:30s. If he remembers 1:35, then that's what it was.
The slower speeds achieved in this magazine test would seem to indicate slower exit speed out of the preceeding corner.
Steve
The slower speeds achieved in this magazine test would seem to indicate slower exit speed out of the preceeding corner.
Steve
Okay, I have now looked at the Automobile mag write up. What they show as turn 1 is really turn 4. I also note that my times were around 1:35 and not 2:35 (memory is the first thing to go). Sorry about that confusion. I am slow, but not that slow! Also, my worst area is braking and corner entry speed (I have a tendency to overbrake - maybe for safety on a subliminal level - and then accelerate into the corner after turn-in. I generally pick it up during the corner so my exits speeds are good and straight speeds are good.
So they state the Viper did 1:34. That is a reasonable time for an SRT with a novice driver (like me). A professional should be able to get an SRT down to 1:31-1:32. Gen II's regularly travel it in 1:35 and it has been stated that the SRT is 3 or more seconds better at that track. One thing they did not mention was the condition during the track event. They mentioned rain earlier, and my recollection was the rain from Katrina took a while to pass through the area. But without knowing the conditions it is hard to tell how they might have impacted the times.
I do find it strange that they said the Viper is the easiest to drive fast (makes me think they did not find the real limit). Also the comment about the inside tire slipping is reminiscent of my own experience. Due primarily to the aforementioned overbraking and accelerating in the corner. If they were maximizing entry speeds this should not have been a significant issue. Note I generally only had the slip issue in turn 2 and 3 (same place as the picture above) as the double apex nature allows one to accelerate mid turn.
I do not have a better Viper Days link. Someone here should be able to back up what Steve and I said regarding the max speeds.
They also said turn 4 is the slowest turn. I agree with that for the min speed, but as it is an increasing radius turn the exit speeds are fairly high (along with a wide turn out pad). I think my mins there are also right about 50 mph. That is a corner that I feel quite comfortable with overall (unlike turn 1 where the blind downhill and poorly placed turn-in cone fool me regularly).
So they state the Viper did 1:34. That is a reasonable time for an SRT with a novice driver (like me). A professional should be able to get an SRT down to 1:31-1:32. Gen II's regularly travel it in 1:35 and it has been stated that the SRT is 3 or more seconds better at that track. One thing they did not mention was the condition during the track event. They mentioned rain earlier, and my recollection was the rain from Katrina took a while to pass through the area. But without knowing the conditions it is hard to tell how they might have impacted the times.
I do find it strange that they said the Viper is the easiest to drive fast (makes me think they did not find the real limit). Also the comment about the inside tire slipping is reminiscent of my own experience. Due primarily to the aforementioned overbraking and accelerating in the corner. If they were maximizing entry speeds this should not have been a significant issue. Note I generally only had the slip issue in turn 2 and 3 (same place as the picture above) as the double apex nature allows one to accelerate mid turn.
I do not have a better Viper Days link. Someone here should be able to back up what Steve and I said regarding the max speeds.
They also said turn 4 is the slowest turn. I agree with that for the min speed, but as it is an increasing radius turn the exit speeds are fairly high (along with a wide turn out pad). I think my mins there are also right about 50 mph. That is a corner that I feel quite comfortable with overall (unlike turn 1 where the blind downhill and poorly placed turn-in cone fool me regularly).
Kai SRT10
Enthusiast
I've found that a lot of the Viper's difficult nature can be tamed with a decent alignment. My car's stock alignment was very far out of specification across the board. It was amazing how much better the car handled with a new alignment. It could be that this particular Viper had a good alignment done on it.
As for the inside wheel spin, it can be fixed with a Quaife diferential. I too experienced the inside wheel spin, but with the addition of the Quaife, it's completely gone.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
my time at Gingerman during a ViperDays in 2001 in a bone stock RT/10 were 1min. 38.727 seconds (1:38.727). I have not run the SRT there but between brakes, weight, and more HP I know it would be at least a few seconds faster
GTS Bruce
Enthusiast
Conclusion:Mid engine Ford GT and front engine Corvette Zo6 beat Srt-10's ugly ***.No doubt beat my **** Viper GTS's *** too. GTS Bruce
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
actually the Viper could be considered a mid-engined car. A front mid-engined car, if you look at the placement in the frame/wheels it's a pretty easy deduction to make.
Exactly right. by principle, the Viper is and has always been a "mid-engined" car. The engine on a Viper sits inbetween the front and rear wheels. there is no specification as to which end the engine sits closer to in the definition. There are advantages in either configuration. For instance, if you ignore the drivetrain of the car, any car the is coming into a corner, when braking will transfer weight to the front, making the rear light and more apt to come around. Opposite is true for accelleration out of a turn- weight is transferred back, and the front becomes light. the only time true weight distribution comes into effect is the "transitional period" in the turn, and in things like a "skidpad."
it truely does not matter WHERE the engine in the car is located, as if the weight distribution is close to 50/50, the car is balanced- PERIOD. (Viper is 49/51 by the way, now think about that; the engine is in the front, but the rear tires have slightly more weight on them!) Many rear engined cars have slightly more weight out back, which can help them get going from a dead stop as more weight is over the rears. However, the other advantage to more weight out back is to think of the rear of the car as a pivot point; due to the car's polar moment of inertia being centered over the rear differential, it takes less force to "swing" the front of the car around a turn if it is lighter. On the downside, the rear tires have to pick up the slack, and an extreme of this scenario will cause the car to understeer.
In the end- it comes down to driving style. Any configuration can be as fast as any other if it is set up properly, and driving style is changed accordingly.
I would add that the polar moment of inertia does matter and that rear mounted mid engine cars generally have lower polar moments. That makes the gyroscopic effect less, allowing for better transitions in cornering.
All-in-all if properly sorted out any configuration can be made fast (aka the rear engined Porsches) even with less than ideal distributions.
It should also be noted that the feel to the driver can be quite different depending on where they are. For those who have driven the Viper hard (and spun of course) you know the "tilt a whirl" feeling sitting behind the rotational axis feels. Sitting in a rear mounted mid engined car is quite the opposite.
All-in-all if properly sorted out any configuration can be made fast (aka the rear engined Porsches) even with less than ideal distributions.
It should also be noted that the feel to the driver can be quite different depending on where they are. For those who have driven the Viper hard (and spun of course) you know the "tilt a whirl" feeling sitting behind the rotational axis feels. Sitting in a rear mounted mid engined car is quite the opposite.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
nice additions to my comment Dan and Ron. One additonal thing that due to some of the inherent design of rear mid-engine cars it allows the center of gravity to be a lower. You dont have a trans tunnel that runs through the cockpit.
Hirohawa
Enthusiast
Same with the Corvette Front Mid engine layout. But as others have stated rear mid engine is the optimum setup for racing. Look at the Lemans Prototype class and F1 cars. Always faster with mid engines.
GTS Bruce
Enthusiast
Viper yes front mid engine.The ideal weight blance for a car is somewhere around 44/56.Well for a race car anyway. GTS Bruce
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