Front Fascia Alignment and other Issues

[GTS Dean]

GTS Dean,

Thanks for the detailed instructions. I'm dealing with a warped H'man "rigid" fascia that I actually cracked taking off - it is that hard to get over the RCS wheel well edges.

I just did some more thinking about this. The OEM fascia is flexible enough to slip around the RCS (actually, I think they call it the front splash shield). The rigid aftermarket piece may require that you leave the flat angle brackets floppy loose to make it easier to get the fascia corners over the mating lip. Install the outer 5 small screws on each side, then shim & tighten the angle brackets to suit.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Tom,
Did the shims show up today?

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Dean,

Do you mean make new isolation bumpers?

I cut a whole bunch of shims from the identical material (got lucky finding some). This stuff can be bent with heat so I was going to take the top shim and bend sides down to trap the lower shims. That only leaves securing fore/aft.

There is a square hole on the front of the RCS shim pads. I was thinking of drilling the shim pack at this hole and filling the hole with RTV or epoxy. Could even blow a self drilling/tapping screw thru the shim pack into the frame.

Details, details, details....

______________________

PS. getting the crimp washers off. They can be unthreaded like a bolt if you have some unmolested pliers.

_________________________

I'm taking photos of these rarely seen things and will post them when I get a chance.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Ok Dean, you got me with your last post.

You mean make a shim block.... or replace the rubber isolators with longer plastic ones?

 

[hemibeep]

I used the flat black plastic bumper shims and used those to create the shims for under the RCS and on top of frame horns. I drilled a hole large enough to allow the rubber isolators to drop into the new shims and hold the shims in place. After I stacked up these new shims, I drilled a hole and installed cotter pin. My isolators were long enough to "capture" in the frame rails

Yes the rubber isolators for ac are tapered tree style and the radiator are cylinder.

 

[hemibeep]

Another thought. If the hood is to be painted? , then why not do a little work and glass on some extensions to handle the gap? Yes, a bunch of work, but may make life easier?

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Hemi,

Yep I'm making shims. Local ralley car builder gave me some scrap plastic that appears to be exactly what Dodge uses.

I had to insert 7/16" additional shims, so my isolators are out of the hold.

Since this plastic is thermoplastic, I can heat and bend it, so I bent up a "shim box" shim. It is on the top but has sides and a front to trap the shims. The back uses a pair of "curls" to trap the shims at the back. (I've taken pictures of this and will post.)

As far as hood extensions, that wouldn't solve the top of the headlight gap problem.

Actually, at very high speed, outboard hood latches seem like a good idea. Just think of all that air getting under the hood where the headlights are. Its almost like a wing area.

However, if I would get the average outboard hood/fascia gap right but the hood edge was not parallel, I might consider building it up to give a uniform gap.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Assembly CATCH-22.

When to bolt down the headlights? Before or after fascia install?

Frankly, it is difficult to snap the fascia over the RCP's with the bracket and brace loose. With the headlights bolted down it will be extremely difficult to accomplish.

I'm considering bolting the headlights down from the fog light openings, and then bolting the fog lights from the RCP knockout plug. This is a lot of internal work where dropping anything is a disaster. In addition, on the LHS, that evaporation can valve assembly must be removed from the RCP to allow access to the headlight studs.

But even if I go the other way, I must at least tighten a couple headlight studs, remove the fascia, do the remaining healight studs, do the fogs, then install the fascia.

Does anyone prefer to do the headlights/fogs AFTER the fascia is on?

Any thoughts?
Tom

 

[GTS Dean]

Assembly CATCH-22.

Any thoughts?
Tom

I hope you don't have short, "Popeye" forearms coupled with poor manual dexterity.

 

[hemibeep]

Headlights--get your marks, then tighten down before facia.
(evap canister and overflow bottle in the way)


Foglights, I installed mine into the facia, then just plugged in through the rubber plug.

As far a dropping something in the abyss...get a flex magentic pick-up at any auto parts store.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Tom,
It was great talking with you today!!! Your insight will help to NO END in the coming weeks!!! Here is a quick pic of the "slot" I was taling about:

 

[GTS Dean]

Dang Tony - that's not THE BREAKFAST TABLE, IS IT????????

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Why yes....yes it is.

Being a geographical bachelor has its benefits. I gotta clean up every now and again when the wife comes to visit, but aside from that, I got stuff everywhere!

Up until last weekend I had 6 Pella windows leaning up against the piano. The new doors are STILL there! LOL

I was talking to Tom about the Texas Fascia and when I brought up the splitter I was making, and how it fit in the little "slots" at the outer edges of the fascia...he was a bit befuddled. Are there various iterations of this fascia? He said his has all of the mounting holes along the leading edge...but no "slot".

Oh, and just before this picture was taken there was a Ron Davis radiator leaning against the chair. The radiator has FINALLY found a home closer to the front of my engine!

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Tony,

HaHaHaaaaaaa

I've that that #*$&& fascia in my hands for hours and I never saw those slots!

I guess its because I've spent all my time laying up glass on the inside - haven't turned my attention to the outside yet.
______________________________

Hemi,

So that's a Yes? You have done the headlights thru the fog holes and the fog thru the plug hole?

My big obstruction is that evap valve thingee that is outboard of the evap can.

There there is the pleasure of getting your hand all ripped up on the middle headlight stud as you reach the back one.

_________________________________

I'm thinking more along the lines of installing the headlights before the fascia. I can mark the position of the headlights by taking 3 measurements from the headlight to the hood. 1) fore/aft outboard, 2) fore/aft inboard, and 3) left/right.

I'm thinking I should make it possible to remove the fascia from an assembled car w/o taking anything else out.

One thing, I did notice that the fog tunnels hit the lower corner of the bumper when I was trying to slip the fascia on. This might be a trick to get it on easier - trim the bumper corner. Now wth the headlights in place, I don't know if you'll get that interference. I suspect the headlights will really make it harder if they are bolted down.

I am going to mega trim the RCP and the fascia flange at the lower pinch point encountered when snapping it over.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Well, I started bolting things down and working thru the fog hole is not bad. The only difficult headlight stud is the inner, forward one that goes to the frame bracket. You have to hold the nut with your 2nd and 3rd fingers to get it started.

One other item: Doing this method is the easy way to install the plastic press pin that is right under the front, center of the headlight - the outer most pin that connects the fascia to bumper.

 

[GTS Dean]

OK now Tom, you've had all weekend....

Time for the "After" photos.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Dean!

HaHa!

I'm getting packed to go back to PA. Have a lot of pics along the way, however, I HAD to post a nice final pic (this is NOT 'shopped - haha).

(Hoosier Daddy: Yes, this is Wayne's hood w/o any structural modifications. Yes, it is amazing. I still can't believe it.)

NOTE: This photo was taken with car pointed directly at sun. Notice the sun flare exactly in the center of the fascia below the Viper emblem.

 

[GTS Dean]

Tom! That looks Great!

 

[Tom and Vipers]

HaHa,

I should just clear coat the hood, huh?

 

[CAS]

Tom,

You did a great job on the alignment; looks as good as factory, but what the hell happened to those pieces?! They look like they've been hit with a sander and some hailstorms.

 

[GTS Dean]

(Hoosier Daddy: Yes, this is Wayne's hood w/o any structural modifications. Yes, it is amazing. I still can't believe it.)

Amazing in what way? That something that appeared so hopeless now looks quite respectable?

 

[Tom and Vipers]

That's just it. Poor Wayne paid people to work on it and to make a long story short, the hood/fascia gap outside the RHS headlight was almost TWO INCHES!!!!!!!

Almost 1/2 of that distortion was due to aft hoodpins that put the hood in longitudinal compression and trapeze lift springs that were stock, i.e., TWICE the upforce needed for the C/F hood.

Then of course, measure, shim, measure, shim, measure shim... for about 40 man hours.

The hood is fairly molested. I can't speak for how Wayne's body guy did it, but the monkey I got sanded it down and put featherfill on it - only to have the mechanical guy leave the car outside for a few months to have the featherfill destroyed by exposure. So I've been stripping/pressure washing the layers off the hood. Its probably 5 lbs lighter.

Lots of work still to get the hood ready for painting. The fascia needs internal fiberglass work and all the stress cracks sanded off.

I quit looking for someone to do this job. Seems the only choices out there are morons and bandits.

But I will tell you, I am quite proud of the results. I sort of look at it as being a great humanitarian effort! HaHa

I've got to contact Wayne and show him the results. Looks like he isn't with this board any more and his email has changed. I assume he still has his business in SoCal.