Gen 1 VS Gen 2 - Where does the extra 50 horsepower come from?

[NatRT10]

I've been doing several different searches, trying to learn as much as I can about the Viper I just bought. I'm seeing that Gen 1's typically dyno anywhere from 370 to 390 rwhp and Gen 2's seem to be 410 to 420 rwhp. What was done that created the extra power and how difficult would it be to make my '95 run like a '96 to '02? Hypothetically, just say I happen to have a strong Gen 1 that dyno's at the 390 range. Would smooth tubes and filters along with an exhaust put me there?

 

[DChan415]

The biggest reason is probably the higher compression ratio. There are many other major differences however.

 

[Sam 01 RT10]

Yep, the redesigned cylinder heads and higher compression helped, as did the thin walled tubular exhaust manifolds. The Gen1 has heavy cast iron exhast manifolds. You could probably buy someone's stock Gen2 manifolds for $150 or so, and pick up another 10-15 hp.

 

[95Viper]

Lose the stock cats

 

[NatRT10]

Lose the stock cats

Do you mean replace them with high flow cats or gut the stock cats?

 

[Sam 01 RT10]

Depends on where you live. If you have to pass a smog inspection, then you should go with high flow cats. If smog is not an issue, then just remove them entirely. I'd also add a high flow bullet type muffler in place of the stock mufflers.

 

[Brad04Mamba]

Rerouting the exhaust to the rear picked up 15 hp

 

[joe117]

"Rerouting the exhaust to the rear picked up 15 hp"
I've heard that before. Was it because of a crossover pipe?
What's the reason?

 

[Robert1994]

I was able to add the extra ponies to my '94, by
using stripes from a Gen II car. They fit perfectly
with out modification, unlike so many other upgrades.

 

[99 R/T 10]

"Rerouting the exhaust to the rear picked up 15 hp"
I've heard that before. Was it because of a crossover pipe?
What's the reason?

No crossover pipe, don't know the real reason. I would have thought the side exaust would be more efficient.

 

[SylvanSRT]

the gen II motor is a totally different motor than the gen I. Around 80 lbs lighter(block casting), different internals and exhaust manifold plus more.

 

[Ulysses]

No crossover pipe, don't know the real reason. I would have thought the side exaust would be more efficient.

Actually, if you open up one of the stock rear mufflers, there is a crossover of sorts, but not in the true sense of the definition of "crossover pipe".

 

[Marv S]

That '96 rt/10 is the only factory Viper that didn't have a muffler in the side sill. Just cats in the sills and a rear muffler in the back. Less backpressure. Recall something of a new windage tray on that 96 rt/10 that helped out some also.

96 GTS and 97+ all Gen 2 Vipers had cats & mufflers in the side sills plus the muffler in the rear.

Gen 2 motors 450 hp of 96 & 97 had those big / heavy cast iron exhaust manifolds. lighter, short headers came in 1998. (of course those early cam profiles didn't hurt, either)

"Rerouting the exhaust to the rear picked up 15 hp"
I've heard that before. Was it because of a crossover pipe?
What's the reason?

 

[ViperJoe]

Must have been a case of more backpressure with the rear exiting system added the horses.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I am pretty that the highest backpressure system was the original RT/10. Pretty sure that and the elimination of the inlet resonator were the reasons for higher power in 96.

 

[venomblue550]

so how about compare a 96 GTS to a 98 GTS?? is there any power difference due to lighter intake mainfold??

 

[Marv S]

so how about compare a 96 GTS to a 98 GTS?? is there any power difference due to lighter intake mainfold???

Exhaust, maybe? Power rating was the same, but....... those early gen2 cams.......

 

[Newport Viper]

I lost the cats . Went to www.Roeracing.com high flow cat back.
411RWHP 489RWTQ
I have seen other gen 1's in this range. ( Sean's 95 was about the same) Torque wins races you know

 

[GR8_ASP]

Ha, My '95 lost the cats before its first year was up. In the 7+ years since I haven't been able to find them (although I do remember them being on Ebay a while back). 95's had a very rich calibration and responded better to exhaust and intake mods better than 92-94. Viva la 95!

 

[NatRT10]

I lost the cats . Went to www.Roeracing.com high flow cat back.
411RWHP 489RWTQ
I have seen other gen 1's in this range. ( Sean's 95 was about the same) Torque wins races you know

Are you referring to this catback exhaust for $895?

RT/10 High Flow 3 inch Side Exhaust
Our side exhaust upgrade gives 1992 to 1995 Vipers better sound, performance and reduces side sill temperatures. 100 % stainless steel system includes all mounting hardware and is easy to install. Includes high flow catalytic converters

If so, how difficult of an install is it? You got those numbers with just this exhaust system? That's a pretty significant increase for just an exhaust! That's gotta be a difference you cam most certainly hear and even more inportantly, FEEL!

 

[NatRT10]

Ha, My '95 lost the cats before its first year was up. In the 7+ years since I haven't been able to find them (although I do remember them being on Ebay a while back). 95's had a very rich calibration and responded better to exhaust and intake mods better than 92-94. Viva la 95!

Since you say the '95's run rich with the stock exhaust, is tuning necessary after an exhaust upgrade?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Since you say the '95's run rich with the stock exhaust, is tuning necessary after an exhaust upgrade?

I would say no. A verification with an O2 reading may be warranted depending on how much you have done. But smooth tubes, filters, headers and 3 inch exhaust left mine still slightly on the rich side.

 

[viper spray]

My 95 dyno'd at 525HP and 611TQ , with a shot of NOS and some basic bolt on's

 

[Newport Viper]

I lost the cats . Went to www.Roeracing.com high flow cat back.
411RWHP 489RWTQ
I have seen other gen 1's in this range. ( Sean's 95 was about the same) Torque wins races you know

Are you referring to this catback exhaust for $895?

RT/10 High Flow 3 inch Side Exhaust
Our side exhaust upgrade gives 1992 to 1995 Vipers better sound, performance and reduces side sill temperatures. 100 % stainless steel system includes all mounting hardware and is easy to install. Includes high flow catalytic converters

If so, how difficult of an install is it? You got those numbers with just this exhaust system? That's a pretty significant increase for just an exhaust! That's gotta be a difference you cam most certainly hear and even more inportantly, FEEL!

Yep, thats the one! I didn't do the install.....

 

[DrumrBoy]

Lose the stock cats

Do you mean replace them with high flow cats or gut the stock cats?

What a stupid question. If you lose something do you gut it?....lose means lose....as in no more. Is english your mother language?

 

[NatRT10]

Lose the stock cats

Do you mean replace them with high flow cats or gut the stock cats?

What a stupid question. If you lose something do you gut it?....lose means lose....as in no more. Is english your mother language?

Awwww what's the matter drummerboy? Did I make you feel stupid about your avatar comment on the other post? HAHAHAHAHA!

 

[DrumrBoy]

At least you spelled everything correctly this time.

Your unnecessary personal attack aside, you ask some pretty stupid questions....and you can now count on me to be there to comment on every one of 'em.

 

[Jeff Torrey]

Your way out of line to call someones question stupid.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Just following Nat's lead...

 

[NatRT10]

Forget it kid, I'm not going to lower myself to your level.