Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial ever!

[shotjock]

Hello.

I have a stock 2003 w/ 20k on it. Stored for 3 months and when driven again Clutch seemed to have problems going into 2nd without 2k rpms. With Viper advice, I checked clutch fluid reservoir and it was dry. Added 4 OZ brake fluid over the course of a month as Viper guy suggested air bubbles. Now it is progressively worse with all gears, soft clutch at times, get stuck at 2+ stop lights because have to pump clutch a bunch of times to get into 1st and have to push shifter harder than normal to get in. Once in 1st, it seems to allow gears sometimes after with at least 2k rpms again.

Talking to Viper techs, sounds like it is a slave/master and told should replace both either way while in there. Questions PLEASE:

1. I am guessing this is in essence a complete clutch rebuild?
2. If so, what kind of clutch kits should I put in for resale value, since most $$ is labor (higher performance? quality?)
3. An aftermarkets I should avoid?
4. Is it safe to drive to mechanic or should I have it towed?

5. Unrelated but developed rattles behind dash it seems, any known suspects?

THANK YOU SO MUCH

HERE IS THE COMMERCIAL - sound on!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCxehjcYwlc

 

[csmwiese]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

I've had a couple done over the years and it's not that expensive of a repair to do at all. Book time to replace the clutch is about 2.7hrs on a Gen3. Every Viper I've put a clutch in got a LUK kit in them, they're not that expensive (Part # 05-088). New slave will add about $100-$150 more, with no extra labor time. I've never had a clutch master go out, it's external (outside of bell housing) so I would wait. I would put a hand vacuum pump on the hole in the cap of clutch reservoir (you may need an O-ring (or something) around the top of the cap to seal it) (also remove the rubber bag thing out of the reservoir first). A few pumps on the vacuum and the clutch should feel fine for a while, you can probably rent one for free from the auto parts store.
Just my thoughts.

Thanks, Clint

 

[MoparMap]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

Depending on how long you have driven it that way, it sounds like it's just the slave/master and not the clutch itself that's bad. Unless someone had no idea how to drive a stick, burning out a clutch in 20k is not very typical. I have similar symptoms in a 67 Dart that I installed a Viper T56 in. In that case the slave cylinder isn't correctly positioned and can't get enough travel to fully disengage the clutch, so it's hard to get into gear at a stop light similar to what you have mentioned. In my case it's because the positioning is wrong, but in your case it could just be a bad seal in the system that is letting the clutch hydraulic fluid bleed past or it could be letting air into the system that's compressing under pressure.

I typically work on my own cars, so I wouldn't mind taking it apart and checking out the clutch before ordering a new one, but I understand a dealer might lot like the car taking up space in a similar situation. You might talk to your dealer and see what they'd be willing to do. If they can take the trans out to get the slave cylinder replaced (most likely cause of the problem) and check the wear on the clutch plate at the time, you could potentially be saving a few hundred dollars in parts by not replacing it. If it is worn out and you need to replace it they'd have to wait for parts and hang on to the car for a bit, but likely only a few days at most.

 

[csmwiese]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

Yes your slave is the problem but with 4-6 oz of brake fluid dripping or flying around the bell housing there's more than a good chance that some has gotten on the clutch plate, plus 20k on a viper (unless you are the original owner and know how it's been driven) is a good amount on a clutch. Don't take all that time or pay someone to do all the work to just put your 12 year old clutch back in, spend the $200 and get it all new. Also, you're not going to have the alignment tool to get it back perfectly centered. Any Transmission Shop in your area can have this done in a few hours. While your transmission is out, have them/yourself replace the trans fluid (much easier while out).

Thanks, Clint

 

[shotjock]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

Thank you so much guys. A few follow up if you will..
1. the pump test - is that to **** clutch fluid out of the reservior or to push it down to the clutch?
2. It sounds like the recommendation is to replace the clutch and slave
3. that 2.7 hours, is that for the whole job? I have 1 estimate at 5 hrs over the phone which is why I ask
4. Is LUK a manufacturer or just a parts distributor?
Thanks a bunch..

btw it wouldnt let me post the link for the commercial but on you tube dodge predators extended version is awesome with In the Air Tonit playing in back ground

 

[csmwiese]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

Hand pump clutch bleeder. My 2004 is doing the same thing now, and tomorrow I'm having the clutch and slave replaced. Tonight I removed the rubber bag thing out of the reservoir, Put an O-ring around the top of the cap ( too seal it air tight), put the hose over the hole in the top of the cap, pump the hand pump a few times to build up suction, It pulled the air out of the line and 2 minutes of total time my clutch felt fine to drive. Of course it will happen again as every time it drips it lets air in.
I've had to do this on 2 Vipers before, Clutch Kit and Slave
I have a Chiltons labor time guide and that is the time it shows. On my 1997 GTS it was about 3 hours total and my bill at the local transmission shop was just less than $300 total ( I provides the parts).
I promise you it's a very east removal and install for them.
Luk clutch kit part number 05-088 is the one you need. It will come with a New clutch disk, pressure plate & release bearing. I purchase a Luk slave cylinder also, about $150
Your 5 hour estimate is them guessing and with a Viper they think you have money falling out of your pocket.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Clint

 

[cdover73]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

I just had a similar problem with my clutch. My trans blew 2nd and had to be replaced. While it was out I took advantage and upgraded to a SPEC Stage 2+ kit, new OEM hyd slave/TOB unit, and a Fidanza lightweight flywheel installed. The day I picked it up the master cylinder blew as the mechanic was bringing it around. I had the dealership order a new one and install it. I think the cost for that repair was around $280, including labor and parts. I now have a completely new trans, clutch, and slave/master cylinders. I couldn't be happier. The clitch grabs firmly, no chatter, no noise with pedal in or out, and the clutch pedal takes half the effort as the stock one did. It is a good overall setup. With the price of the SPEC and all the components, plus labot I think I have around $1500 in the upgrade. Just another option to consider.

 

[Schulmann]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

My Viper has 43000mi hard miles.

My transmission had to be refreshed at just 4000mi ! Now it has 39000mi.
I noticed a week ago durant a track day that my tranny was tired.
It didn't want to go into 3rd and 4th easily. 1st gear was hard to get in.

The key in the longevity of the T56 is to change the oil on regular basis (5000mi or once every 2 yrs), I stay away from the Mopar Tranny lube.
Best are for street driving and lapping: Amsoil syncromesh or royal purple syncromax.
For racing: Amsoil Synthetic Manual Transmission and Transaxle Gear Lube 75W-90 API GL-4

Stock Luk clutch did a very good job, but it is really weared to the max. I will install the same clutch again.
Tranny is being refreshed in all 6 gears.
New cluth and replacing all seals around the engine.
Clutch bearing was nearly gone.

 

[broomrider]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

Like the commercial. Check this one out
https://youtu.be/6FLaLZH07J8

 

[shotjock]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

Awesome video, thanks guys!

Question: I am seeing "SATGE II" clutches made from XTR, PSI, FX Racing, and Bahnhof on eBay for jut a little more than the stock LUK stuff... Have any of you heard of these brands? Would upgrading one of these Stage II set ups add resale value or last monger/give me better performance?


THANK YOU FOR YOUR OPINIONS...

 

[cdover73]

Re: Gen 3 III CLUTCH SUGGESTIONS PLEASE! My GIFT for helping - coolest V commercial e

Haven't heard of any of those, but I'm fairly new to the Viper world. I did major upgrades to an '03 Mustang Mach 1 that put out a little over 700hp at the crank and ran the same SPEC brand Stage 2 setup in it. That's why I went with it again on this car.

I'm not sure how different brands advertise "Stage II". Usually it's a way to determine higher hp applications. I was advised to go with the Stage 2+ for the Viper since it's rated for a higher hp than just Stage 2. The "+" option wasn't available back when I was running higher numbers in the Stang and it still held up. Go figure...

I don't think it will help with resale in any case. It's a cool thing to point out, but people aren't going to pay more just because the clutch is upgraded. I wouldn't at least. Most people know that you can typically upgrade for the same price as escalated OEM components, at least regarding clutch setups. I actually paid less for my upgrade than what the dealer wanted for OEM.

As far as longevity, I put about 40k on the Stang by the time I got rid of it after the clutch upgrade. I just started running it in my Viper (~400 miles), so time will tell if it holds up. I do know there is a wear ring on the Fidanza flywheel if you go that route. SPEC sold me the flywheel with the kit and stated it should last at least two sets of clutch discs, so every other clutch disc change you would change the wear ring. And that's for heavy duty use (racing). It will probably last me the life of the car, but it's nice to have the option to replace it. I think it runs around $120 for the ring, but don't quote me on that.

My .02 from personal experience. I'm sure there are better products out there. Depends on how much you want to pay and what is best for your setup. Listen to everybody that has experience with different options.