Hi 1BADGTS. I would not run my car hard at Homestead Speedway for 25 minutes in 90 degree weather. In fact, unless a car was specially prepared for this level of outside heat, I would not run it regardless of whether it was NA or supercharged. ( In this regard, I have seen heavily modified NA engines experience problems. I am sure that you have too.) But I can assure you that during the 25 minute runs I have made on the 2.2 mile road course, the car was not babied and heat soak was not a significant issue. Admittedly, the outside temperature on each occasion so far was at or below 80 degrees with low humidity. I suspect that you are right in that if you ran a stock Gen IV and a Gen III with a stock Paxton kit in 90 degree, higher humidity weather, the stock Gen IV is going to perform better after a while. However, if the Gen III then was modified to deal with these conditions, the story might be different. I think the key to my experience is the fact that I have not stretched the envelope. It is a stock Paxton kit with a good and safe tune. I think that Paxton did an excellent job engineering and testing the product. I also think that Mark Jorgensen at Woodhouse did an excellent job installing the system and that Mark Leslie at University Dodge does an excellent job making sure that my car is always in tip top shape. As you know, attention to detail and proper maintainence are crucial to safe performance driving.
Gen 3 S/C'ed vs. Gen 4 NA
- Thread starter TexasSnake
- Start date
TexasSnake
Enthusiast
Wow...this thread has taken off on so many tangents (reliability, heat soak, best engineering design, etc...) While I must admit it has been an enjoyable read, I was only wondering how my car would perform against an 08 or 09.
But since the issue has been brought up, I recently ran the dog$h*t out of my car (per my definition) and by the end of the adventure I thought something was wrong with my car due to the extreme sluggishness. To define my definition of running the dog$h*t, I ran it for about 4 miles making abrupt stops and 6 WOT stretches with a top speed of probably 170mph. I got in my car the next day and took it out and hit it WOT and it responded like a scalded ape as usual. I haven't driven it since, because of my location in relation to my car, but must say if that sluggishness was from heat soak, there was a HUGE loss in power.
Thanks for all the replies, opinions, and facts.
Take care,
Justin
But since the issue has been brought up, I recently ran the dog$h*t out of my car (per my definition) and by the end of the adventure I thought something was wrong with my car due to the extreme sluggishness. To define my definition of running the dog$h*t, I ran it for about 4 miles making abrupt stops and 6 WOT stretches with a top speed of probably 170mph. I got in my car the next day and took it out and hit it WOT and it responded like a scalded ape as usual. I haven't driven it since, because of my location in relation to my car, but must say if that sluggishness was from heat soak, there was a HUGE loss in power.
Thanks for all the replies, opinions, and facts.
Take care,
Justin
black mamba1
Enthusiast
How about VOI 9 110+ degree temps, lots of cars doing just one pass at the strip. I was laughing, I think I made 20 passes in the heat of the day. Especially in the southwest 110 degree weather can be very common. I love both types of cars, they have their own specific personalities. I really enjoy my N/A car, but I would'nt mind trying a blown car either. The problem I have with blown cars is the temptation to run the car at it's limits. If a little boost is good then 30lbs must be better, oops their goes the motor. I once had a little 305 chevy motor, those of you that know something about Chevy's realize that it was the least favorite as well as weakest small block made (except for the 307). Cast pistons, spindley rods, thin cylinder walls, small bore, small valves etc. B&M said DON'T run over 5lbs. of boost, that lasted all of a week. I machined a pulley, got a 750 dbl pumper and 18 lbs of boost later it ran like a Bat out of hell. It actually lasted for over a year, moral of the story? One Chevy long block $1,200 bucks, one Viper long block, uhhhh I know I can't afford it.
Oh and to the point...........I think a stock GenIV vs. a Paxton Gen III would be a great race. Conditions as mentioned by everyone would play a big role in the GenIII's performance.
Oh and to the point...........I think a stock GenIV vs. a Paxton Gen III would be a great race. Conditions as mentioned by everyone would play a big role in the GenIII's performance.
the initial race the paxtoned gen3 would smoke the gen4 from 70-150 mph by a good 4 cars..
The second and third race it would pull the gen 4 by 3 cars...By the 4th or 5th pull it would be dead even... and by the time they tried the 6th or so 70-150 mph blast the heat soaked gen 3 paxton would have dropped from it's origional 630 rwhp to 530 rwhp..Then the 530 rwhp gen4 would pull it by 2 cars as 530 rwhp na is gonna beat 530 rwhp supercharged every time...
But honestly who races thatmany times???Usually it's one or two pulls and in this case the gen 3 is the definite winner
The second and third race it would pull the gen 4 by 3 cars...By the 4th or 5th pull it would be dead even... and by the time they tried the 6th or so 70-150 mph blast the heat soaked gen 3 paxton would have dropped from it's origional 630 rwhp to 530 rwhp..Then the 530 rwhp gen4 would pull it by 2 cars as 530 rwhp na is gonna beat 530 rwhp supercharged every time...
But honestly who races thatmany times???Usually it's one or two pulls and in this case the gen 3 is the definite winner
Once gain a factor everyone appears to have pushed aside is should anything happen (say a hole in a piston due to detonation )in an 08 its covered by the warranty in the Paxton car its a repair that can easily cost the owner over 10 grand per shot.All in all there has got to be a reason that the ultimate authority on the subject (SRT )decided to stay NA.
Justin ,you dont have a bolt on Paxton kit as i see you have major UPGRADES. (forged internals ect)that probably double or more the price of a STOCK bolt on Paxton .Different matter entirely if you were to take the stock kit (cast pistons small intercooler ect )and run that the same way.
Sorry Joe, but track numbers tell a different story. Just b/c a professional driver ran an 11.3 in yours once does not set the standard. Your average driver is still finding it difficult to run consistant 11.5 's in the GenIV.
CarDude
Enthusiast
Kind of frustrating that many are only talking about a drag race, cuz as far as I know the car can actually turn a corner or two. Now that is the racing I am talking about Paxton will heat soak.
If that (a single drag race) is what we are talking about then the paxton car will win. Easy math. With a 20+% gain in power the car should be close to the same HP but the Paxton will have more torque, and pull on a completely stock Gen IV. But add headers and the Mopar computer and you better pull out the checkbook cuz the Paxton is gonna lose.
If that (a single drag race) is what we are talking about then the paxton car will win. Easy math. With a 20+% gain in power the car should be close to the same HP but the Paxton will have more torque, and pull on a completely stock Gen IV. But add headers and the Mopar computer and you better pull out the checkbook cuz the Paxton is gonna lose.
Completely agree. I believe The Viper is more suited for autocross but unfortunately not everyone has tracks close by. Usually drag strips are more convenient hence more people draggin'.
black mamba1
Enthusiast
There are lots of guys who ran the Poconos that had Paxtons...to the best of my knowledge they were smoking everyone else.
This horse has been beaten to death many times over I think. There those that blow and those that don't blow. It all depends on what one plans on doing with their blown Viper. Some of us(like someone I know
) enjoy racing anything lined up next to us at a stop light, highway or driveway for that matter. For this person, the Paxton Viper will last a lifetime with the requirement that it's properly installed and tuned.This horse has been beaten to death many times over I think. There those that blow and those that don't blow. It all depends on what one plans on doing with their blown Viper. Some of us(like someone I know
Sounds like someone I know. He only has to do it once so he has no problem with heat. Woodhouse install. 355gears Pilot Sport Cups it feels like it does not hit the ground before the next light. That what he said anyway.lol
black mamba1
Enthusiast
This horse has been beaten to death many times over I think. There those that blow and those that don't blow. It all depends on what one plans on doing with their blown Viper. Some of us(like someone I know
I wonder who might that person be?
Yeah, my main question is should I go 750 rwhp, 850 rwhp, or 950 rwhp, since I have forged internals. I have spent 2.5 yrs throwin my car around at high speeds and I am used to how it handles. I am concerned about adding 90 lbs to the nose, changing the handling and breaking in a car that is much more powerful....yikes!!
You start going over 850 to the tire you not only better have the best forged internals (CP Pistons-lowered compression, Carillo Rods )but you have to do something with the main bearings caps also (Upgraded billet caps ect ).I wonder who might that person be?
black mamba1
Enthusiast
I have the CP Pistons, Manley rods, lowered compression...I gotta check the billet caps. There is a big debate about usable power. They tell me not to knock what I havent tried. So I think I am going up in increments. I will probably go to 775 rwhp first, and get used to that. I wont increase it until somebody beats me.
Hell, right now I have not been beaten w/ my current power. But I know its just a matter of time.
thanks!
Hell, right now I have not been beaten w/ my current power. But I know its just a matter of time.
thanks!
The billets are a pain in the ass to do (complete dissaembly of engine -machine block ect )but in that power lever a MUST .Dont get me wrong the power is always great to have but on Pilots really not coming near getting it down (useable )I have the CP Pistons, Manley rods, lowered compression...I gotta check the billet caps. There is a big debate about usable power. They tell me not to knock what I havent tried. So I think I am going up in increments. I will probably go to 775 rwhp first, and get used to that. I wont increase it until somebody beats me.
Hell, right now I have not been beaten w/ my current power. But I know its just a matter of time.
thanks!
2001 GTS
Enthusiast
I was under the impression when getting close to 1000rwhp the main caps need upgrading.
Lot of UR cars running around with 900rwhp SUPERCHARGED with no issues...that I know of.
I believe its 1000 flywheel horsepower.Remember the smallest part going at 1000 horsepower (esp under boost)can result in the owner basically throwing a 35000.00 engine in the trash.At that power level one really cant afford to take a chance with whether the billet caps (enginerered to handle in the 500 hp range )are strong ehough to support twice that.
I forgot to mention something that I think is very important in the context of a road course. I have a swing arm Competition Coupe oil pan on my car. Even with a NA car, it is a good idea to have one for road racing but I think that it is even more important in a supercharged car. The consequences of oil not being where it is supposed to be can, as many have found out, be severe.
black mamba1
Enthusiast
I have PS-2's. What kind of tires do u recommend to get 950 rwhp to the ground? And Bob, do you have problems with belt slippage?
black mamba1
Enthusiast
You have PS2's but how much tread is left?It may be time for a new set for you.
yeah, thanks to you!
