Gen 4 in a Gen 2 - Anybody do the conversion?

[DrumrBoy]

I have some options for getting my car back on the track. One is fixing what broke on the current engine, but another option is changing engines.

A built Gen 2 motor would be pretty straightforward but I'm wondering how hard it is to drop a Gen 4 mill in a GTS.

The electronics are likely different but I think all I have to do is run the engine with the PCM.....its a race car (no lights, no turn signals, no A/C, no thumpin sound system etc) so it may be easier than it would be for a street car.

Anyone have any stories (good or bad) about a Gen 4 into a GTS conversion?

Just evaluating options.

 

[01sapphirebob]

There might be a thread on this if I remember correctly. I don't remember the outcome bit indo remember people saying the cost to do might kill the projest before it even gets off the ground.

 

[dave6666]

Talk to Dan at VSP. He's doing a lot of trick stuff these days.

 

[Zentenk]

I heard about someone doing this to a GTS... not sure how it has come along yet. I won't tell because they may not want anyone knowing.

 

[eucharistos]

pls post your findings

 

[DrumrBoy]

Will do. I did call Dan but had to leave a message.....collecting more data.....

 

[Russ M]

Anything is possible, the motor should drop right in.

However if price is an issue then you would be cheaper of with a gen 2 motor making the same or more power. The big problem your going to have is the engine management, the Gen 4 is a bag of worms which no one has cracked yet(far as I know).

 

[FrankBarba]

You most likely will need a new wiring harness. That is a major difference

 

[plumcrazy]

i think dan said the wiring is a major issue to do this but it can be done

 

[dave6666]

plum's just a candy ass. Don't listen to him.

 

[eucharistos]

 

[plumcrazy]

..............

 

[DrumrBoy]

Spoke with Dan at Viper Specialty....great guy and knows alot about the subject. Wiring is the primary issue but its less of one for me because its a track car....still intimidating for a mechanical type like me but we'll see what wins the power/cost battle, rebuilt GTSR, built Gen 2 or Gen 4 conversion.

 

[Russ M]

Track car:

Stock gen 2 motor
twin turbo-very low boost about 5 psi (no intercooler)
E85 or methanol depending on how serious you are.
AEM

Motor/turbo/engine management components will cost less than 20k.

Will make about 600rwhp with a torque curve most can only dream of and be dead reliable, wont over heat even with stock radiator perfect track car and cheap.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Good thought. I hadn't considered turbos for the reliability on track. Most sessions are only 25 minutes and sprint races are up to 40 mins. In the southeast on-track air temps can be up to 140 F. Maybe with very low boost as you say.

 

[dave6666]

Military surplus engine... $5K
Brackets... $1K
Persuading everyone to let you on the track...

You must be registered for see images

 

[DrumrBoy]

Now that's what I'm talking about. With 520 RW I do get passed on long straights by serious C6s.....with that set up they'd never get past the wind resistance

 

[Russ M]

With the low boost twin turbo setup nothing is going to pass you. And if you do methanol you can easily do 10psi roughly 800rwhp and 800 torque with a torque curve that goes like this -------------~.

You can even setup a scramble boost button with the e85 to give you say 5 sec @10 psi, will make passing a joke. You just dont want to get too carried away with e85 cause while you wont detonate because it does not cool nearly as well as ****, you dont want to run higher boost for long without an inter cooler.

 

[TexasTonka]

I have some options for getting my car back on the track. One is fixing what broke on the current engine, but another option is changing engines.

A built Gen 2 motor would be pretty straightforward but I'm wondering how hard it is to drop a Gen 4 mill in a GTS.

The electronics are likely different but I think all I have to do is run the engine with the PCM.....its a race car (no lights, no turn signals, no A/C, no thumpin sound system etc) so it may be easier than it would be for a street car.

Anyone have any stories (good or bad) about a Gen 4 into a GTS conversion?

Just evaluating options.

I may be wrong but I think the Gen IV is drive by wire, and don't know of anyone making a retro conversion TB to work with a Gen II yet...

My opinion install Gen IV heads on your Gen II, custom fab a sheet metal intake, raise compression a bit and have a blast at the track.

Or you can always buy my set of Styker R heads and Cam that are brand new (not even shipped yet). Best heads and cam in the history of Viper IMO.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I may be wrong but I think the Gen IV is drive by wire, and don't know of anyone making a retro conversion TB to work with a Gen II yet...

My opinion install Gen IV heads on your Gen II, custom fab a sheet metal intake, raise compression a bit and have a blast at the track.

Or you can always buy my set of Styker R heads and Cam that are brand new (not even shipped yet). Best heads and cam in the history of Viper IMO.

-Yes, the Gen-4 is FBW. In a retrofit, this would be kept, not deleted anyway.

-Gen-4 heads on a Gen-2 is not easy. The power steering pump mounts on the heads do not exist on Gen-4 castings. The PS pump on Gen-3+ is on the timing cover.

-The Gen-4 intake manifold would be required with the heads, and is a tough manifold to beat. a sheet metal intake might actually cost you horsepower compared to a well ported Gen-4. *most* sheet metal intakes will not incorporate a near-perfect venturi design.

-Striker heads and manifold would certainly be an option, of course.

 

[Nadine UK GTS]

It can be done. If you want a package to look at, Arrow do one, intake, ECU and all. Nice, but don't expect the means to be able to do it, to come cheap, we are talking just into double K figures.

 

[Viper Specialty]

It can be done. If you want a package to look at, Arrow do one, intake, ECU and all. Nice, but don't expect the means to be able to do it, to come cheap, we are talking just into double K figures.

Hi Nadine,

Assuming you are talking about a head retrofit, so far as I know, Arrow has that for Gen-3 only, not Gen-2. The PS pump is the hurdle here when dealing with Gen-2. Also, their manifold top converts to a single throttle body design, which may add some unneeded complication as far as air filters and intake goes.

As far as a whole engine retrofit, so far as I know, only one place has done that as of yet

 

[RichieSRT10]

plum's just a candy ass. Don't listen to him.

I wonder how many fruitcakes have PM'd Plum since this info came outabout his JerZey Blueberry Butt.