Gen 4 intake manifold removal

[bushido]

I was thinking about getting a ported one for my ACR. Is the manifold hard to remove? I wanted to do this at home. Thanks..

 

[Green viper 1]

If you do remove and buy another one I would be interested in buying your stock one for project I'm working on

 

[TrackAire]

Call Toddy at BBG. He can not only walk you through it but also has ported manifolds to either sell or swap with yours.

You will feel the power increase with the ported manifold (I have BBG's), the car is also more rev happy. Makes a difference on the track for sure.

Cheers,
George

 

[bushido]

Thank's guys..

Does anyone know if the gaskets on the manifold can be used again? Also to re-tighten the bolts. What torque+pattern should I go? Thank you..

 

[FrgMstr]

Install.....

12 Newton meters / 106 inch lbs.

Looking from the drivers side....

17 / 18 / 9 / 10 / 3 / 4 / 11 / 12 / 19 / 20

16 / 15 / 8 / 7 / 2 / 1 / 6 / 5 / 14 / 13

 

[bushido]

Install.....

12 Newton meters / 106 inch lbs.

Looking from the drivers side....

17 / 18 / 9 / 10 / 3 / 4 / 11 / 12 / 19 / 20

16 / 15 / 8 / 7 / 2 / 1 / 6 / 5 / 14 / 13

Thank you FM. How do you like the ported intake on yours?

 

[FrgMstr]

Thank you FM. How do you like the ported intake on yours?

Have not done mine yet. Waiting for it to get too hot to drive with the top down here in Texas, then I will get around to it. I have been prepping though and just happened to have the install instructions sitting here on my desk when I read you post.

Did research into good torque wrenches for the job as well as the one I have would not adjust down to that 106" setting. The guys at Precision Instruments were nice enough to swap emails to make sure I got the right tool for the job and one that would be a good addition to the tool chest down the line.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0089N63JW/?tag=hardfocom-20

 

[Viper X]

Easy install.

Gaskets are re-useable.

If you don't have a catch can, you'll be surprised at how much oil is in your intake manifold.

Dan

 

[sssammm]

Easy install.

Gaskets are re-useable.

If you don't have a catch can, you'll be surprised at how much oil is in your intake manifold.

Dan

Ill second that, its scary

 

[Mamba52]

Ill second that, its scary

Third!!!! What's up with that. Just changed my throttle body and noticed a small amount of oil in there

ViperX can you post some info on your catch can.

Thanks

 

[FrgMstr]

Yep, mine is surely getting a catch can when I have the intake ported.

 

[viper srt10]

Easy install.

If you don't have a catch can, you'll be surprised at how much oil is in your intake manifold.

Dan

I am listening !!!

 

[chorps]

So who's catch cans is everyone using? There are 'expensive' and cheap ones, but they're all pretty cheap considering what they do...I'm guessing even a cheap one is much better than none at all, but is an expensive one any better?

Easier to drain? Dual stage cans? Any specific brands or vendors that make it easier to install in the Gen IV? Ones that can be installed without modding/drilling? Burning questions!

 

[Steve M]

I pieced my own together based on an RX Performance catch can...I made a custom bracket for it, and also did my own plumbing to it. I can't say for sure how well it is working since I've only been running it since this spring, but it should help at least some.

There are a couple schools of thought on the matter...******** racers generally prefer vented type catch cans that run from the valve cover to the catch can and then vent straight to atmosphere. This is the only way you can fully eliminate the possibility that you will get oil in the intake since you are removing the vacuum source from the PCV system. The downside is that these are in no way emissions legal, and it also eliminates the ability for the system to pull the crankcase vapors out under vacuum as the PCV system was originally designed. Some people say that not pulling these vapors can potentially reduce the life span of engine oil, but I've not seen any hard evidence to support either side of that claim. The ACR-X catch can is a breather type catch can, so that should say a couple things:

1. It was good enough for the guys driving the ACR-X to use under race conditions (that's a pro in my book)
2. The ACR-X engines don't have to last for any substantial amount of time, like tens to hundreds of thousands of miles (or at least until the warranty runs out) like an engine that's going to Joe Blow general public (that's a con in my book)

The other option is like what I did, which is to remove the line that runs from the valve cover to the intake manifold and reroute it so that it runs through a catch can. This is where catch can design is more critical...for the system described above, you can get away with an empty can. When you still have a line running from the catch can back to the intake manifold, it is important that all oil vapor is allowed to condense out of the crank case gasses. That's a slightly more difficult problem since the airflow coming into the catch can is hot, and the catch can itself is also being heated by the engine bay. For this reason, this type of catch can will still allow at least some oil to get back into the intake manifold, albeit a smaller margin than would happen with no catch can in place. Some companies use coarse wire mesh to help this process, while others use a series of holes and baffles that make the air take a longer path than just straight in, straight out.

If you use the ACR-X type catch can with a breather element on top, you'll will want to remove the inner workings of the PCV valve located on the passenger side valve cover and also make sure to remove and cap off the driver's side make up air tube that runs from the airbox to the driver's side valve cover.

If you use the in-line approach, you can leave the PCV check valve in place, and also leave the make up air tube that runs from the airbox to the driver's side valve cover in place (although some would argue that this is yet another source of potential oil contamination that needs addressed).

 

[Viper X]

I designed a catch can set up for my 09 ACR. I have put about 15K track miles on it to date and it works very well. I have also sent the parts list and pics out to members who have used it successfully. I DON'T sell it, I do this to try and help our members.

My design is vented to the atmosphere, the vacuum is blocked off - no way oil can get into the intake and it is reverse-able. If you need to pass smog, you can return it to stock in a short time.

If you check the archives, I think redtanrt10 (Mike) did a tech write up using my design.....or you can pm me your email and I'll send you a parts list and pics.

IMHO, this is something all Gen IV owners should do it they can.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[chorps]

Awesome info from Steve and Dan, this will give me a great starting point.

 

[SRT101969]

I did the same, before that tried by keeping the vacum thru the manifold intake and still oil issues.

I designed a catch can set up for my 09 ACR. I have put about 15K track miles on it to date and it works very well. I have also sent the parts list and pics out to members who have used it successfully. I DON'T sell it, I do this to try and help our members.

My design is vented to the atmosphere, the vacuum is blocked off - no way oil can get into the intake and it is reverse-able. If you need to pass smog, you can return it to stock in a short time.

If you check the archives, I think redtanrt10 (Mike) did a tech write up using my design.....or you can pm me your email and I'll send you a parts list and pics.

IMHO, this is something all Gen IV owners should do it they can.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[Stealth]

When the dealer installed an Arrow-ported intake on my '08 Coupe I asked if there was any oil in the intake and the Viper tech said "not a drop". I guess I just need to drive harder!

 

[Viper X]

When the dealer installed an Arrow-ported intake on my '08 Coupe I asked if there was any oil in the intake and the Viper tech said "not a drop". I guess I just need to drive harder!

Either that or your "viper tech" wasn't paying attention. I had oil in my intake of my 2009 ACR at 500 miles with only break in type driving.

Never seen any Viper including Gen's 2, 3 and 4 without some oil in the intake.

IMHO, there's just too much vacuum routed from the intake into the engine - likely for emissions and Govt required.

Dan

 

[bushido]

Hey guys thank's for the Info. Dan thank's too..

 

[bushido]

Hey guys I have another question. Looking at the tech manual. It says that the fuel line should be disconnected before removing the intake manifold,but I don't see the fuel line having any connection/relation with the intake manifold. Did you guys do it? Thank's..

 

[Boxer12]

Arrow Racing, the #1 builder of Viper racing motors, has designed a modification to the valve covers (they swap em) in addition to a catch can. I put my money on this mod...why take chances with a bench design on a $15k motor? Also, personally, I think you are wasting your money on a ported intake without ported heads and headers, along with Mopar PCM...jmo.

 

[Viper X]

Hey guys I have another question. Looking at the tech manual. It says that the fuel line should be disconnected before removing the intake manifold,but I don't see the fuel line having any connection/relation with the intake manifold. Did you guys do it? Thank's..

Did not remove the fuel line. Not necessary.

Dan

 

[bushido]

Did not remove the fuel line. Not necessary.

Dan

Thank you Dan appreciate your help..

 

[Viper X]

Arrow Racing, the #1 builder of Viper racing motors, has designed a modification to the valve covers (they swap em) in addition to a catch can. I put my money on this mod...why take chances with a bench design on a $15k motor? Also, personally, I think you are wasting your money on a ported intake without ported heads and headers, along with Mopar PCM...jmo.

Know the guys at Arrow very well and respect them. If you want to mod / drill your valve covers or swap them then have to deal with smog, or buy another set of valve covers and money is no object, go for it. If you want an effective, simple, proven method that IS reversible in a few minutes for smog purposes, there are better ways.

The ported intake is worth about 20 hp, 20 lbft across most of the power band without touching the heads, i.e. the stock Gen IV heads are pretty good already. In fact, the Gen IV heads are so good OE that I run dead even down the front straights of our local tracks, one of which is Auto Club Speedway (up to 162 MPH) with a friend who spent the extra $5K+ on the ported heads, all else being equal. IMHO, for the money, the ported heads on a Gen IV don't provide much return.

Dan

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Know the guys at Arrow very well and respect them. If you want to mod / drill your valve covers or swap them then have to deal with smog, or buy another set of valve covers and money is no object, go for it. If you want an effective, simple, proven method that IS reversible in a few minutes for smog purposes, there are better ways.

The ported intake is worth about 20 hp, 20 lbft across most of the power band without touching the heads, i.e. the stock Gen IV heads are pretty good already. In fact, the Gen IV heads are so good OE that I run dead even down the front straights of our local tracks, one of which is Auto Club Speedway (up to 162 MPH) with a friend who spent the extra $5K+ on the ported heads, all else being equal. IMHO, for the money, the ported heads on a Gen IV don't provide much return.

Dan

Good info, but one big factor missing here is durability of components on cylinder head comments. We've been upgrading exhaust valves to a high temp version to handle extended run times (extreme exhaust temps), valve springs and pushrods to better control valve train geometry, so re-working and upgrading the cylinder heads with better components definitely has it's advantages in the Viper racing world. On the other hand if your club racing, a stock Viper has always been pretty durable compared to other manufactures.

At BBG we're now upgrading our race ported Gen 4 cylinder heads with our new competition intake and exhaust valves. Light weight SS race valves that can handle the extreme conditions of endurance racing!! If your Viper's a dedicated track car running NARRA, NASA, SCCA or just flat out want the best in your Viper's engine, then there truly is no downside to running the good stuff IMO..



BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy
(916) 505-9026
[email protected]
=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[Viper X]

Good info, but one big factor missing here is durability of components on cylinder head comments. We've been upgrading exhaust valves to a high temp version to handle extended run times (extreme exhaust temps), valve springs and pushrods to better control valve train geometry, so re-working and upgrading the cylinder heads with better components definitely has it's advantages in the Viper racing world. On the other hand if your club racing, a stock Viper has always been pretty durable compared to other manufactures.

At BBG we're now upgrading our race ported Gen 4 cylinder heads with our new competition intake and exhaust valves. Light weight SS race valves that can handle the extreme conditions of endurance racing!! If your Viper's a dedicated track car running NARRA, NASA, SCCA or just flat out want the best in your Viper's engine, then there truly is no downside to running the good stuff IMO..



BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy
(916) 505-9026
[email protected]
=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

Agree with the above, one can almost always make their track car better by spending more money on upgraded parts. Somebody once said; "Want to go fast, how much do you want to spend???

That said, how much better? Do you spend 3 or 4 times as much to achieve a 5 to 10% "better" result? Sometimes you spend more and don't get any return ..... don't ask how I know.

If my 50K track miles on four Vipers has taught me anything, it's that the Viper is a very good track car with an average driver. With a better driver, it's a really good track car, capable of beating up on most race cars and rarely beaten in its power to weight ratio type class. With a great driver in a well prepped "street" Viper like an ACR, it's just plain hard to beat by most sports car type race cars.

No doubt, if you are doing serious racing as Toddy says, you likely want the best. Look at NASCAR as an example.

Most of us, though we might wish otherwise, are club racers, "time trialers", "lappers" or recreational "track" drivers. Nothing wrong with that, but the Viper is very durable in these situations. IMHO, most of us would be better off spending our extra dollars on professional instruction.

I have several friends who ran in the Viper Cup and engine failures were pretty rare. Keep in mind that these were "sprint" or very short races.

If you are going to run endurance stuff, you may want to consider more durable, more expensive parts, which I'm sure that Toddy can fix you up with.

Dan

 

[JoelW]

These might help.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/615608-Let-s-see-your-upgraded-Crankcase-Ventilation-System

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...reather-System-“Puke-Tank”-–-Photos-and-Guide

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Agree with the above, one can almost always make their track car better by spending more money on upgraded parts. Somebody once said; "Want to go fast, how much do you want to spend???

That said, how much better? Do you spend 3 or 4 times as much to achieve a 5 to 10% "better" result? Sometimes you spend more and don't get any return ..... don't ask how I know.

If my 50K track miles on four Vipers has taught me anything, it's that the Viper is a very good track car with an average driver. With a better driver, it's a really good track car, capable of beating up on most race cars and rarely beaten in its power to weight ratio type class. With a great driver in a well prepped "street" Viper like an ACR, it's just plain hard to beat by most sports car type race cars.

No doubt, if you are doing serious racing as Toddy says, you likely want the best. Look at NASCAR as an example.

Most of us, though we might wish otherwise, are club racers, "time trialers", "lappers" or recreational "track" drivers. Nothing wrong with that, but the Viper is very durable in these situations. IMHO, most of us would be better off spending our extra dollars on professional instruction.

I have several friends who ran in the Viper Cup and engine failures were pretty rare. Keep in mind that these were "sprint" or very short races.

If you are going to run endurance stuff, you may want to consider more durable, more expensive parts, which I'm sure that Toddy can fix you up with.

Dan

Interestingly enough Dan,


I can upgrade the entire Gen 4 valve train to our BBG Competition Series (race valves, guides, seals and spring kit), for about the same price it would cost to service a Gen 4 cylinder head to factory spec using Mopar OE components.. Straight forward upgrade which in it's self greatly improves the engines performance. We service many cylinder heads and you would be surprised what we find on good running Viper engines, factory machined imperfections on seats and deck surfaces, excess wear on valve guides and wide variances in dynamic valve spring pressures. During the tear down process I've gathered a lot of data good and bad on the many new and seasoned cylinder heads that have made their way on to our work bench. At BBG we don't charge Viper tax for our custom components, we calculate and price our components based on engineering, machining and fabrication time.. Our philosophy is plain and simple, build the best quality possible and make sure it's correct before leaving our Garage.

Didn't mean to high jack your thread Bushido by discussing cylinder heads, but just wanted to clarify how important a well built Viper cylinder head is, so please except my apologies and good luck with your upgrade, you'll definitely feel the power gains upstairs!!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[redtanrt10]

Bushido, as Dan (ViperX) mentioned lot's of oil when you pull the intake, the catch-can he designed is posted in the illustrated upgrades. You track, get one.

Boxer12, the Arrow version is great, as you'll see in the upgrade thread, not posted to sell vs. others, just a DIY option. Dan designed his before Arrow, and, here in Cali they won't pass smog, Dan's version is easy to remove and go back to stock for emissions testing.

To all others, my opinion/experience; Gen IV headers, exhaust, venom controller, ported intake all cost about $100 per RWHP. Ported heads, $200 per RWHP, cracking the ECU codes, priceless!