Gen 5 Viper

[Bobpantax]

I note that your handle says "Enthusiast". Did you sell your Viper?

Perhaps you should observe all the information. The Viper will have less than the Mustang regardless of the rumors. More elitist garbage from Viper owners that gives all Viper owners a bad name. The Mustang is a car that you can actually buy.....not just talk about. Viper with 800 hp? No. But everyone on here refuses to accept fact.


http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-shelby-mustang-gt500-super-snake-debut-new-york-auto-show-65903.html


http://shelbyautos.com/2011gt500.asp


All in a package that is made to order and in "limited production", whatever that means. As far as "VCA loyalists", I don't know what that means either. Most of the clubs can't even get together for a drive let alone drop 6 figures on a car because one is "loyal".

I have heard lots of talk about "buy the last Viper" and "sellout of the new Viper" over the last two years. This is just a shill over the last couple of years. Most of us want to wait to actually see the production car to make up our minds, not see a mock-up or "trust us" because we know the "inside scoop".

Frankly, the economy is bad. Selling 100k cars is hard. For model year 10, the ZR1 sold approximately 1500 units and the Corvette has a much larger following than the Viper.

 

[webby]

This has probably been answered elsewhere, but for someone looking to get a used 03-06 SRT/10, would you recommend waiting until after the NY Auto Show?

 

[FastMatt]

If it has 800hp, I'll be in line for one.

 

[Hirkophoto]

100k and it still is a mustang.
http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-shelby-mustang-gt500-super-snake-debut-new-york-auto-show-65903.html
They could at least dress it up to hide the fact that it's ugly. Besides that will not be a factory car, I'm sure tuners out there will do the same with the new viper. Ralf will not disappoint .

 

[Bobpantax]

It will not be 800 HP. 660 to 700 is probably the range. It has to beat the ZR1 and the new Mustang. How about 660 HP with 150 pounds less weight. Would that get your juices flowing? Just a guess this time.

 

[shooter_t1]

Hmmm. I bet...Over 120k for the coupe, under 650 hp, and heavier due to all the nanny stuff plus this fancier and more expensive interior everyone is on about. Then 130k+ for the ACR next year. Plus whatever markup the dealers can throw on and get away with.

And...who cares about the Shelby having 650 hp. It's a different class of car and not in competition with the Viper. They already make a 725 hp Super Snake option and have for a couple of years. Haven't heard of anyone selling they're Viper for one.

 

[M_viper]

Hmmm. I bet...Over 120k for the coupe, under 650 hp, and heavier due to all the nanny stuff plus this fancier and more expensive interior everyone is on about. Then 130k+ for the ACR next year. Plus whatever markup the dealers can throw on and get away with.

And...who cares about the Shelby having 650 hp. It's a different class of car and not in competition with the Viper. They already make a 725 hp Super Snake option and have for a couple of years. Haven't heard of anyone selling they're Viper for one.

I have to agree with Shooter, when those Gen IV came out we all saw how much markup the dealers threw on.

 

[PDCjonny]

Hmmm. I bet...Over 120k for the coupe, under 650 hp, and heavier due to all the nanny stuff plus this fancier and more expensive interior everyone is on about. Then 130k+ for the ACR next year.

That would be suicide.
And I for one will surely remember the dealers who price gouge initially when the time comes.
And it WILL come once the all the initial hoopla wears off.

 

[shooter_t1]

That would be suicide.
And I for one will surely remember the dealers who price gouge initially when the time comes.
And it WILL come once the all the initial hoopla wears off.

I know Jon. But you know we see it all the time. Some one will "just have to have".

 

[Bobpantax]

When Ralph Gilles spoke to the South Florida VCA at our Holiday party he stated that base pricing had not been finalized but that it would likely start at about the same level as the Gen IV. He said that they read and listen to our comments very closely and are very much aware of our concerns.

One other point. This is a report on an old announcement from Mopar:

The Chrysler Group's performance catalog division Mopar has just announced the availability of a V10 crate engine designed for drag racers, and the figures are positively mind-blowing. The Competition crate engine – hand-built and ordered up as Part Number P5144872 – offers a staggering 800 horsepower and 695 lb-ft of torque. Mind you, that's coming out of 512 cubic inches (8.4 litres) of displacement, which is staggering in and of itself, but amounts to 95 horsepower per litre. Which is a lot, but not by racing standards.

Those who enjoy their ten cylinders of power away from the drag strip can opt for a 150-horsepower upgrade kit for the MkIII Viper that takes output up to 650 hp. There's also a new high-output, aluminum-block 426 Hemi V8 available with 590 horsepower, an adapter kit that allows the Hemi to drive the front wheels(!)

Do you really think that it is that difficult for the SRT Engineers and Dick Winkles to boost the current engine from 600 to 660 or 675 HP on a reliable and bullet proof basis with a few modest changes to the intake, pistons ( New forged pistons were developed for the ACRX. I would not be surprised to find them or a close variant in the Gen V.) and related parts, fuel management, exhaust, etc.? I think that they could have done so without much difficulty. Look at what we have been doing for years by ourselves with the help of site vendors and other Viper specialists. They have far more resources and the bench and track testing facilities to get it done. I have been running 685 rear wheel HP for six years this May on a bullet proof basis. To suggest that SRT can't produce a bullet proof Gen V engine with at least 660 or 675 HP at a reasonable cost is not consistent with known facts.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

I think Bob's is right. I think many Viper owners will buy more than one if they have the means and I think MANY none Viper owners will HAVE to own one asap.

The new SRT Viper will raise the bar on all sports cars out their. I'll even go so far as to say, even if you didn't like the looks and performance of the new Viper, you'll still have to own one It'll be that good. IMO

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

When Ralph Gilles spoke to the South Florida VCA at our Holiday party he stated that base pricing had not been finalized but that it would likely start at about the same level as the Gen IV. He said that they read and listen to our comments very closely and are very much aware of our concerns.

One other point. This is a report on an old announcement from Mopar:

The Chrysler Group's performance catalog division Mopar has just announced the availability of a V10 crate engine designed for drag racers, and the figures are positively mind-blowing. The Competition crate engine – hand-built and ordered up as Part Number P5144872 – offers a staggering 800 horsepower and 695 lb-ft of torque. Mind you, that's coming out of 512 cubic inches (8.4 litres) of displacement, which is staggering in and of itself, but amounts to 95 horsepower per litre. Which is a lot, but not by racing standards.

Those who enjoy their ten cylinders of power away from the drag strip can opt for a 150-horsepower upgrade kit for the MkIII Viper that takes output up to 650 hp. There's also a new high-output, aluminum-block 426 Hemi V8 available with 590 horsepower, an adapter kit that allows the Hemi to drive the front wheels(!)

Do you really think that it is that difficult for the SRT Engineers and Dick Winkles to boost the current engine from 600 to 660 or 675 HP on a reliable and bullet proof basis with a few modest changes to the intake, pistons ( New forged pistons were developed for the ACRX. I would not be surprised to find them or a close variant in the Gen V.) and related parts, fuel management, exhaust, etc.? I think that they could have done so without much difficulty. Look at what we have been doing for years by ourselves with the help of site vendors and other Viper specialists. They have far more resources and the bench and track testing facilities to get it done. I have been running 685 rear wheel HP for six years this May on a bullet proof basis. To suggest that SRT can't produce a bullet proof Gen V engine with at least 660 or 675 HP at a reasonable cost is not consistent with known facts.

But how does all that power get to the ground? I think there's more to the Viper than even Ralph is telling. Remember, Ralph is a racer first and foremost.

Come on April. I'm thinking of flying up for the NY show as well.

 

[PDCjonny]

I think Bob's is right. I think many Viper owners will buy more than one if they have the means and I think MANY none Viper owners will HAVE to own one asap.

The new SRT Viper will raise the bar on all sports cars out their. I'll even go so far as to say, even if you didn't like the looks and performance of the new Viper, you'll still have to own one It'll be that good. IMO

Holy Koolaid Batman....
Just who are these guys who are buying two Vipers at a time, I don't recall seeing them here before.
Show of hands please....

 

[v10enomous]

Hard to believe that it's only 3 months away and February is a short month...

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

You can't show a picture of a car that's not done yet. April is months away, the final version is still being finalized. Once shown in April, they're stuck with that "look". I bet there will be tweeks on the final looks and specs up the the week before the April show.

Cheers,
George

You watch to many reality car shows. SRT is not like West Coast Customs or the Chopper idiots from NY. Vehicle will be done well before the Auto show, not the night before!

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Holy Koolaid Batman....
Just who are these guys who are buying two Vipers at a time, I don't recall seeing them here before.
Show of hands please....

This is the Viper forum and not the Neon forum. You shouldn't be surprised if some people have deep pockets around here.
if I had the extra garage space "which I'm working on" I'd own two or more Vipers.

I think you'll get it in a few months. It could just be an investment thing.

 

[TrackAire]

Hoosier Daddy,

I will bet you a beverage of your choice at this years VOI that styling and visual changes are still taking place....not to mention computer programming for the stability control, motor parameters, etc. You've got to remember that the car will still not be available to us until maybe the end of this year.

Maurice Liang is writing a book on the Gen V's development....I'm sure it will have a lot of details to all these questions and insights when it comes out.

In the meantime, I can't wait to see what they've come up with in April and how similar it is to the 2010 VOI car we saw.

Cheers,
George

 

[BigDawg]

One of them was at the plant on July 1, 2010. She and her husband own 46 Vipers. In our local club, there are at least three people who have more than three and one of those people has six. I predict that the new Viper is going to sell out very fast. It is going to be a class dominator but, at the same time, appeal to far more people. Look what happened to the new SRT8 Jeep. It sold very fast. The new Viper will sell even faster. I am usually very conservative about this type of prediction but this time I think such a prediction is a no brainer. Happy New Year!!

THe Jeep SRT8 is a terrible reference. Let me explain. It is not sold out. Many orders were cancelled. SRT did NOT listen to key points. THe overwhelming majority wanted: center exhaust, NOT towing, a new head unit like the one in the Chrysler 300, at least 500HP, and a better transmission. When interviewed Ralph essentially said that it was good enough. The attitude I perceived was, while not as fast as the competition, it's also much cheaper so it doesn't have to be as fast.

^Last time I checked, the Viper was often half the price or even more than half that of the "competition", yet it dominated them all, in every aspect. I am very worried that his "it's good enough" attitude will translate to the Viper. From my years of being in a Viper family I've watched the sentiment change. Purists and people who want the Viper's raw origins to remain are greatly outnumbered now by people who want more creature comforts among other things. The engine is becoming more and more advanced, harder to work on, harder to upgrade, harder to tune. I always found the simplicity of the Viper to be one of it's strong points...anyways, I'm sure the GenV will be a bad ass car. But using the SRT8 Jeep as an example isn't very reassuring.

 

[MTGTS]

When Ralph Gilles spoke to the South Florida VCA at our Holiday party he stated that base pricing had not been finalized but that it would likely start at about the same level as the Gen IV. He said that they read and listen to our comments very closely and are very much aware of our concerns.

I was at the meet as well. HP will NOT be an issue that keeps you from buying this car. Neither will the stereo or the interior. He told me lots more as we were waiting in line @ the go kart track as a couple of us stayed and ran a couple more races. I promised not to say anything and I won't but you guys will NOT be disappointed.

 

[goldcup]

The new Viper will definitely not have more hp than the Super Snake. But it will be higher than the production GT 500.
It is not even debatable. I would imagine the Viper and Corvette teams do not view the Super Snake as a true production car regardless of how it's classified.patent law I agree with you I'm not spending money until the new car proves its better than my GenIV ACR
And better looking than my Sapphire coupe! But I'll bet it's both but we will soon see.

 

[Hirkophoto]

The new Viper will definitely not have more hp than the Super Snake. But it will be higher than the production GT 500.
It is not even debatable. I would imagine the Viper and Corvette teams do not view the Super Snake as a true production car regardless of how it's classified.patent law .

I agree. You can say that Hennessey will take 50 Gen V Vipers and make 1000hp (or whatever) to trump the Supersnake but it's not a production car after that.

 

[Bobpantax]

The car mags and the auto world in general love the Jeep. It is selling very well. I see your points but look at my signature. I'm stuck with a plain old SRT 8 Jeep making 497 all wheel HP that has done 159.52 MPH in the standing mile and a 12.1 in the quarter on a hot, muggy day with minimal power braking. Oh well. I'll just have to live with it.

Ralph did tell us quite a bit about the Gen V at the meeting at the dealer and at our Holiday party but he did, as stated above, pledge us to secrecy just as was done for the VOI people. Up until then, I was a bit skeptical. After Ralph's presentations, my skepticism is gone.

As for the purists, the business model for the Viper has always been thin. Purist buyers are getting more rare. They tend to be old nand grumpy like me. SRT has to sell enough cars at or near full price to make the business model work. The natural way to do so is to allow for more options for those who want them. This started with the Gen IV and all the color choices.

Trust is a difficult thing to have in the times we are experiencing but trust me. Soon you will see it and read or hear about its specs, etc. and you will not be disappointed.

THe Jeep SRT8 is a terrible reference. Let me explain. It is not sold out. Many orders were cancelled. SRT did NOT listen to key points. THe overwhelming majority wanted: center exhaust, NOT towing, a new head unit like the one in the Chrysler 300, at least 500HP, and a better transmission. When interviewed Ralph essentially said that it was good enough. The attitude I perceived was, while not as fast as the competition, it's also much cheaper so it doesn't have to be as fast.

^Last time I checked, the Viper was often half the price or even more than half that of the "competition", yet it dominated them all, in every aspect. I am very worried that his "it's good enough" attitude will translate to the Viper. From my years of being in a Viper family I've watched the sentiment change. Purists and people who want the Viper's raw origins to remain are greatly outnumbered now by people who want more creature comforts among other things. The engine is becoming more and more advanced, harder to work on, harder to upgrade, harder to tune. I always found the simplicity of the Viper to be one of it's strong points...anyways, I'm sure the GenV will be a bad ass car. But using the SRT8 Jeep as an example isn't very reassuring.

 

[goldcup]

Bobpantax I agree I do not think we will be disappointed with the cars performance. Hopefully a majority will like its looks!
At the very least we know it will be a radical departure from the GenIV body which I consider a good thing.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

After hearing what Ralph had to say, I would buy it site unseen. I told him after owning two Vipers I wanted and Aston Martin like Viper for the road and make the ACR for the ******** guys. Something for everyone.

 

[canadian venom]

What surprise me a lot is that Chrysler made a big fuss around the ''Imported from Detroit'' thing and that they won't present the new snake there ......funny no?

 

[72hemi]

Remember Imported from Detroit is a Chrysler slogan not an SRT slogan, plus with the unveiling of the Dart in Detroit I would suspect thehy did not want to steal from the Dart's thunder with unveiling the Viper as well. From a company perspective the Dart is more important than the Viper because it brings a car to the 40 mpg segment which is completely lacking and it is required for increasing Fiat's stake in the company.

 

[Brian GTS]

At the very least we know it will be a radical departure from the GenIV body which I consider a good thing.

Agreed!!! I'm anxious for the jaw dropping styling like the Gen I/II had.

 

[MTGTS]

What surprise me a lot is that Chrysler made a big fuss around the ''Imported from Detroit'' thing and that they won't present the new snake there ......funny no?

We specifically asked him this question at our SFL meeting. There is a good reason, just can't share it. I will say, if anyone is on the fence about going to NY GO. There is gonna be a nice surprise there.

 

[MTGTS]

Remember Imported from Detroit is a Chrysler slogan not an SRT slogan, plus with the unveiling of the Dart in Detroit I would suspect thehy did not want to steal from the Dart's thunder with unveiling the Viper as well. From a company perspective the Dart is more important than the Viper because it brings a car to the 40 mpg segment which is completely lacking and it is required for increasing Fiat's stake in the company.

The Dart is being unveiled in LA IIRC.

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Just wondering...wouldn't the first year of a new design (Gen 5) be more collectible than subsequent years?

Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question, but for those that are rationalizing a purchase for 2013, perhaps that would be something to consider as well (in addition to the low production quantity)?