Gen-IV Heads Ported

caseyse

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DC Performance has installed their ported heads this past week on my '08 and have achieved the hoped for bump of 30+ rwhp. But that's not all...

When at DCP's recent Dyno Day, they had one of their ported lower intake manifolds on display. Having just installed Arrow's ported manifold (which Arrow doesn't appear to be selling separately anymore) I noticed that DCP's intake porting looked much better, less sharp edges at the entrances to the runners, and cleaner down near the bottom of the runners. I'm thrilled that DCP offered to pull my newly installed intake and send it out for what we'll call a stage-2 porting. A very big thank you to Lyle Larson for personally driving my intake around town for a quick turnaround.

I have about 18k miles on the car, and have been using Torco for most of those miles once I had Dodge's performance controller installed. While I have had great success using Torco for 6+ years on my blown Vette without issue, Dan didn't like Torco's notorious deposits on my plugs, so he has swapped in some new plugs. He also said they noticed some timing getting pulled, so they will give me some race fuel before getting it back on the dyno.

Hopefully, my car will be back on the dyno tomorrow with the revised intake and fuel to see if she has anything more to give. For those of you who know DC Performance's dyno, you'll have a great appreciation to know that they have already gotten my Gen-IV up to about 600 rwhp, with potentially a little more to go ( fyi - I also have the full Belanger exhaust).

A little plug for DCP...I'm probably not DCP's traditional customer, as I always have a crap load of questions, and I like to stay close to anyone working on my cars. DCP did a great job installing my Belangers, Penske shocks, etc., a couple years ago, and they have continued to impress me with their attention to detail and great customer service. Of the many performance shops I have used over the years, I put DCP at the top for shops I trust.

Either DCP or I will post my final numbers shortly.
 

redtanrt10

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Caseyse, looking forward to seeing the back to back dyno numbers. I spoke to Lyle at the dyno day and told him I'd like to see the power #'s first. Your viper must be the first install?
Also, on fuel you said Dan is seeing plug deposits on the Torco fuel. How much (mix) are you running?
thanks, Mike
 

TrackAire

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DC Performance has installed their ported heads this past week on my '08 and have achieved the hoped for bump of 30+ rwhp. But that's not all...

When at DCP's recent Dyno Day, they had one of their ported lower intake manifolds on display. Having just installed Arrow's ported manifold (which Arrow doesn't appear to be selling separately anymore) I noticed that DCP's intake porting looked much better, less sharp edges at the entrances to the runners, and cleaner down near the bottom of the runners. I'm thrilled that DCP offered to pull my newly installed intake and send it out for what we'll call a stage-2 porting. A very big thank you to Lyle Larson for personally driving my intake around town for a quick turnaround.

I have about 18k miles on the car, and have been using Torco for most of those miles once I had Dodge's performance controller installed. While I have had great success using Torco for 6+ years on my blown Vette without issue, Dan didn't like Torco's notorious deposits on my plugs, so he has swapped in some new plugs. He also said they noticed some timing getting pulled, so they will give me some race fuel before getting it back on the dyno.

Hopefully, my car will be back on the dyno tomorrow with the revised intake and fuel to see if she has anything more to give. For those of you who know DC Performance's dyno, you'll have a great appreciation to know that they have already gotten my Gen-IV up to about 600 rwhp, with potentially a little more to go ( fyi - I also have the full Belanger exhaust).

A little plug for DCP...I'm probably not DCP's traditional customer, as I always have a crap load of questions, and I like to stay close to anyone working on my cars. DCP did a great job installing my Belangers, Penske shocks, etc., a couple years ago, and they have continued to impress me with their attention to detail and great customer service. Of the many performance shops I have used over the years, I put DCP at the top for shops I trust.

Either DCP or I will post my final numbers shortly.

Regarding Torco, are you talking about the octane booster they offer? I picked up a case from them at a trade show but haven't used it as of yet.

Other than coating your plugs, did you find it beneficial?

Have fun with your new power levels :2tu:

Cheers,
George
 

Martin

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I'm not sure about the Torco stuff, but some of the 'better' octane boosters have MMT in them. That will leave a reddish deposit on your plugs. Supposedly it isn't harmful, but I still limit my use of that stuff anyhow. Overally, instead of using octane boosters, I like to mix race gas into the tank - but sometimes you get into places where race gas is hard to find and it's always good to have a few bottles of booster in the car if you need them.
 
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caseyse

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I add 32oz of Torco's Accelerator concentrate to 10 gallons of 91 premium. I have been using it for years and believe it has helped keep a 900+ hp engine of mine from grenading:). It does have a little MMT, and as a result, discolors my plugs and exhaust tips. Attached is a Torco octane chart.
 

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caseyse

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I picked my car up this evening, and I'm very happy with the results. While my wallet is a little lighter (less weight = better performance:)), the car has crossed over “the line” that I had targeting for this upgrade. Any more power would probably require forged pistons, as I recall SRT warning that headers and controller were approaching the (conservative?) limits of their short block. SRT really pulled a rabbit out of the hat when they made this marvelous engine. Thinking of my Vette buddies, my current numbers now beat most of the supercharged LSx engines.

While I appear to be the first to clean-up and maximize the potential of this engine, I'm very eager to see the results others can achieve doing the same. Since the controller still hasn't been cracked and we don't have access to varied cams/profiles (beyond Venom's enhanced lobe separation), DCP's Lyle Larson was pondering another possible gain with this engine...swapping the rockers to a 1.8 ratio - although valve float could be an issue at 6,500 rpm with stock springs or no titanium valves.

I'm going to let Dan Cragin put together a post to communicate their results, as he will be able to better reflect on my results and the variables of my particular setup.
 

Malu59RT

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This thread is WORTHLESS without final dyno numbers!!!


:D

Looking forward to seeing the results!
 

Viper Specialty

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While I appear to be the first to clean-up and maximize the potential of this engine, I'm very eager to see the results others can achieve doing the same. Since the controller still hasn't been cracked and we don't have access to varied cams/profiles (beyond Venom's enhanced lobe separation), DCP's Lyle Larson was pondering another possible gain with this engine...swapping the rockers to a 1.8 ratio - although valve float could be an issue at 6,500 rpm with stock springs or no titanium valves.


Ditto.

From the looks of the CamInCam, it has fairly aggressive profiles as it is. However, the ability to actually utilize the variable cam technology in the aftermarket, at least in a simple sense, would be nice.

I as well suspect that the next step for the Gen-4's is to play with intake centerline and rocker combination, while gaining control of the variable cam... definitely some hidden power in there. I don't think we will have to jump to Ti valves just yet [though you certainly could], but a hollow stem exhaust valve in a high temp alloy as well as slightly stiffer springs and more stable pushrods will be a must. The exhaust valve IIRC is actually heavier than the intake valve on the 4's, and may end up being the first to cause an issue with increased lift, especially since it will undergo a larger jump than the Intake valve, as the OE intake valve is a higher lift than the exhaust already. [unless you mean an intake valve jump to 1.8, and exhaust valve to ?1.7? or so]

IMHO, we will not have to make any more than simple changes to remain stable in the 6400-6500 range w/1.8's.
 
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PhoenixGTS

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I'm thinking 615rwhp!
Which I am thinking = 750 hp at the crank. Pretty unbelievable w/o boost. I mean 90 hp per liter from a pretty stock engine with pushrods is amazing. My gawd what would getting one fo these to spin to 7k do?
 

99FRC

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Which I am thinking = 750 hp at the crank. Pretty unbelievable w/o boost. I mean 90 hp per liter from a pretty stock engine with pushrods is amazing. My gawd what would getting one fo these to spin to 7k do?

I dynoed my GEN IV and the drivetrain loss was close to 12%. We dynoed two other GEN IV's and they were close to 12%. I know somecars are closer to 15-18%, but the GEN IV seem to be more efficient.... 12-13%

615rwhp + 12% = 688.8
615rwhp + 15% = 707.25
615rwhp + 18% = 725.7

my stock number

540rwhp + 12% = 604.8
540rwhp + 15% = 621

my modded number

580rwhp + 12% = 649.6
580rwhp + 15% = 667

these motors make great power with mild mods (exhaust, intake port, headers) I can't wait for the heads, cam, and ecu to be modded! 615-630 rwhp is very achievable!
 
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johnk

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I dynoed my GEN IV and the drivetrain loss was close to 12%. We dynoed two other GEN IV's and they were close to 12%. I know somecars are closer to 15-18%, but the GEN IV seem to be more efficient.... 12-13%

615rwhp + 12% = 688.8
615rwhp + 15% = 707.25
615rwhp + 18% = 725.7

my stock number

540rwhp + 12% = 604.8
540rwhp + 15% = 621

my modded number

580rwhp + 12% = 649.6
580rwhp + 15% = 667

these motors make great power with mild mods (exhaust, intake port, headers) I can't wait for the heads, cam, and ecu to be modded! 615-630 rwhp is very achievable!


I believe your math is (slightly) incorrect.. Assuming a 12% parasitic loss, 580rwhp would equate to 659 at the motor (580/.88). You don't take rwhp and add 12%, you take rwhp and multiply by (1 minus 12%).

And the only way to accurately deterime parasitic loss would be to remove the motor, install on an engine dyno, then take those numbers and compare with the rwhp numbers from that same motor installed in the car, right?
 

PhoenixGTS

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I believe your math is (slightly) incorrect.. Assuming a 12% parasitic loss, 580rwhp would equate to 659 at the motor (580/.88). You don't take rwhp and add 12%, you take rwhp and multiply by (1 minus 12%).

And the only way to accurately deterime parasitic loss would be to remove the motor, install on an engine dyno, then take those numbers and compare with the rwhp numbers from that same motor installed in the car, right?
Your formula/method is absolutely correct.
 
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I'm pretty sure that the dyno and type of roller (single or double) would also have an affect on the losses. The Mustang we use is a twin roller and when we did a coast down to measure our losses the average for about 50 cars was 18% strapped tight. That is probably why our RWhp numbers are lower than most. I know that this is not as accurate as pulling t he engine and then seeing actual loss, but I think we have been very close over the years at base power tests then after mods tests.

we used to (8 years ago) use the large single roller Mustang and back then they were using 25% so i know it was all a software calibration issue. Every dyno and operator is different, all I know is that we are consistent in the methods we employ when using the dyno.
 

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