Gen IV vs C6 supercharged

[Dayton937]

Yes, I'm a bit of a GM guy. I created the site LS1Tech.com - busiest GM performance site on the net.

Many guys here that don't have the GM background are quick to underestimate the potential of the little 5.7L, 6.0L and 6.2L LS engines. It isn't hard to make real power with them, especially with any sort of blower or turbo system. His car being an automatic, I'd figure a max of 525-550 rwhp is what he is probably sitting on. He would need a mild cam (ZR1), valvesprings, pushrods, longtube headers to clear 600 rwhp. That blower can definitely push the number when turned up, but not much beyond 630-650 rwhp.

I used to frequent your site Obviously I am becoming a convert but keeping my lil boosted 6.0 though. Do the guys over at LS1 know you're 2-timing them with a 06 vippar?

 

[AbsolutHank]

Yes, I'm a bit of a GM guy. I created the site LS1Tech.com - busiest GM performance site on the net.

Many guys here that don't have the GM background are quick to underestimate the potential of the little 5.7L, 6.0L and 6.2L LS engines. It isn't hard to make real power with them, especially with any sort of blower or turbo system. His car being an automatic, I'd figure a max of 525-550 rwhp is what he is probably sitting on. He would need a mild cam (ZR1), valvesprings, pushrods, longtube headers to clear 600 rwhp. That blower can definitely push the number when turned up, but not much beyond 630-650 rwhp.

Hello Tony...I was waiting for you to find this thread!

 

[Twister]

lol.....9balls vette loyalty pops out in his words on the screen.. but he makes good points. the ls3 can trap up to 118 mph in stock form. it is easily the fastest car you can buy for 50k. 133 mph is basically strong runnin stockisk zr1 territory.

v10lover.....make us proud. but please no nos. bolt ons and tune ect is all good. adding nos that could potentially hurt your engine just to beat a base vette? vids!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nine Ball]

Heck yes. I bought my '06 Viper back in '06 and one of my other LS1Tech buddies inspected the car since it was out of state when I bought it. I still own quite a few GM products too.

I'm not brand loyal, I'm performance loyal. And I prefer American brands primarily.

 

[Makara]

lol.....9balls vette loyalty pops out in his words on the screen.. but he makes good points. the ls3 can trap up to 118 mph in stock form. it is easily the fastest car you can buy for 50k. 133 mph is basically strong runnin stockisk zr1 territory.

v10lover.....make us proud. but please no nos. bolt ons and tune ect is all good. adding nos that could potentially hurt your engine just to beat a base vette? vids!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eh, twister, its a base vette with a supercharger that has more power than a ZR-1.
Twister, have you ever won a race? lol

 

[eucharistos]

Here's both being SC-ed. Might put things into perspective without your having a SC. Sure they can't launch worth a **** but that C6 runs his ass down quick. Watch those highway runs!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufI3x0CePsM&feature=related

watched the vid and read this in the comments:

"wow the vipers driver is horrable. he almost missed his shift an lost a lotta ground floating his valves"

someone please 'esplain the "floating his valves" comment - ie., how could the commenter tell

and what happened to the viper on the top end

tia

 

[Twister]

Makara

beaten....

600 hp supra
400 hp s2k
600 hp s2k
550 hp cobra
562 hp lp570
500 hp camaro
500 hp gts acr
550 hp evo
600 hp gtr
300 hp nsx
500 hp e55 amg
550 hp g35
500 hp civic

and a hundred more Im forgetting....also had my share of ass whoopins from 700 plus hp supras and gtrs and a pesty cammed z06 that always gets me by a length though I have beaten it a few times.

All Im trying to say is a base c6 with a supercharger is still a base c6 at the end of the day.... I had a turboed honda civic beat me two outta 5 races. but Ill be damned if I m gonna spend a dime to beat him...lambo ferrari even a 90k gtr and I could see risking spray to seal the deal.. but a base level auto vette. Ive seen 3 of them today...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebpJWRMUBYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqn-9UUegYw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aytbJCMR8Ro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zscZ3LWWNEw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bowZODW_dS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elsajg3JlYI

 

[plumcrazy]

the "its a vette at the end of the day" thing is total BS. i can guarantee that guy prefers to drive a vette, thats why he has one. I dont get the bashing.... cause there are thousands of lambo/f car guys saying that about you at the end of the day

not to mention at the end of the day, you got BEAT by that "lowly" vette

 

[TowDawg]

Honestly, spraying a car is not dangerous to the car as long as you have it set up right. I had a built mustang that I must have sprayed at least 100 10lb bottles through and never had an issue at all. As far spraying a Gen IV, I'm not sure how that would work, since I don't think anyone has come up with a way to crack the computer yet.

 

[Nine Ball]

You don't need a tune for a wet kit nitrous system. The nitrous kit adds the proper amount of fuel on a wet kit. The reason you don't hear about Gen 4 cars with nitrous is because it is the cheap way to make power and not many guys with $100K cars want to add a low buck nitrous kit to them. No doubt you could safely spray a 150-175 shot on one. Especially with all the safety electronics out there for nitrous systems nowadays.

 

[plumcrazy]

ive read on the gen4's, nitrous causes it to shut off or fall flat on its face. something with the controller. dont think anyone has sprayed a gen4 successfully

 

[TowDawg]

No kidding on the electronics of today. I thought about putting a kit on my Gen III, but then I wouldn't be able to fit my golf bag in the trunk anymore.
Plus, by the time I added all the features I wanted to the nitrous kit, it wasn't so cheap anymore.

Regarding a tune, do you not have to back the timing down when you spray anymore? I know I had to back when I had it, but that was a long time ago.

 

[plumcrazy]

i sprayed a lot on my gen2. you usually do not need to pull timing but not sure on a gen3

 

[challenger&viper]

Let say, the ACR is 2010.

Is the expectation going to be any different ??

If so, what it would be??

Not trying to go out of topic, but just wanna know

 

[V10lover]

Hey boys,

I have been researching on nitrous kits for the Gen 4 lately and ended up finding that RSI in texas have sold a few kits that have worked well!

So, I e-mailed them asking about a kit for my car and how would work for the Gen 4 and dual elect. bodies(TPS).
I also asked for the price on the kit with out the bottle since I can easily buy one here. What spark plugs did they recomend on using?

Their answer is below:


" We are more than happy to help with a nitrous kit for your car.

Our Gen IV kit comes with a twin shark nozzle setup integrated into our custom polished intake kit with K&N Filters. RSI billet fuel rails and all connecting hardware and lines. The Nitrous Express Viper system along with the necessary additions to make it work on the Gen IV platform. I will have to look back at our records for the correct plug info, but the price on this kit without the bottle would be $1895.00. "

I Also asked about the use of a window switch with the system.

Here is their answer on that:

"The activation is TPS based and the system has an arming switch. With the CAN bus based system the Viper does not produce a tach signal, so a Window switch does not work for this application".


I confess that am interested on the 2k kit but, my only doubts are how would the mopar ECU work with the nitrous? I already have it and dont know how many degrees of timing the Perf. ECU adds to the Engine and also know that when using nitrous you are supose to pull timing off and not add to it depending on how big is the shot.

I thought about a 75 Shot to start with and then if things go well bump up to 100shot and wouldnt go beyond that. ALso, high octane non leaded gasoline would be used in the car.

Also could switch ECUs and put the stock one back when going out to spray the car...

I am a little confused but like and doubt that a 75-100hp shot could hurt a 8.4L engine if done it the right way and used with moderation.

 

[plumcrazy]

the moderation is the killer. nitrous is a TON of fun to play with, trust me on that. its an addiction for sure....the filling the bottle part grows thin though.

id trust will at RSI. but id also call dave (nitro dave) at nitrous outlet and run it by him. NOBODY knows more about nitrous than him....PERIOD

 

[Twister]

again....nitrous 100 wet shot on agen 2 or 3 and id say go for it....but risking your gen4 engine on an at this point unproven safety wise spray to beat a c6????

Ive had a base vette .....nice car for sure. but your viper wins the race before it even begins....sorry plum...but thats how I honestly feel. OP....if you want spray then take your time....If you can get it installed and tuned properly before your race then kool. Id personally go with a 50 shot and then 75 shot and thats it...last time I went to the dealer their was a juiced gen3 whos engine was blown....my budeies c6z06 blew off a 75 shot after just 10 sprays.

costing him 15k to rebuild the engine.

some cars are juice friendly. IMHO the gen4 is not

 

[Black Moon]

Twister, Were these all street rolling races or track timed races? Just curious, makes a difference.

 

[Dayton937]

the "its a vette at the end of the day" thing is total BS. i can guarantee that guy prefers to drive a vette, thats why he has one. I dont get the bashing.... cause there are thousands of lambo/f car guys saying that about you at the end of the day

not to mention at the end of the day, you got BEAT by that "lowly" vette

+1

I'm trying to make the choice right between Vette or Viper. Obviously leaning heavily towards Viper since I'm lurking here

 

[ssjcreeper]

The Viper is a notch up on the food-chain IMO, but I still like vettes and you have to respect the power the LS motors can put down when modded. Personally I feel I have nothing to prove to any of my modded vette buddies... and well, I've learned that there's always someone faster than you.

I say take em down V10lover, but if in the end it doesn't pan out..you still have the superior vehicle. The track is where it's at for the ACR. He may or may not get you in a drag race, but on the track I doubt he'd have a prayer.

 

[V10lover]

the moderation is the killer. nitrous is a TON of fun to play with, trust me on that. its an addiction for sure....the filling the bottle part grows thin though.

id trust will at RSI. but id also call dave (nitro dave) at nitrous outlet and run it by him. NOBODY knows more about nitrous than him....PERIOD

I ran nitrous in a truck around 10 years ago and was fun as hell. You are right about refilling the bottle becames a PITA but I am really looking at this as an "emergency button situation only" for races like the one I mentioned.

The only thing is, how to pull 2-3 degrees off of a gen4 engine in order to spray safely a 75-100 shot. So, While I continue to exchange e-mails with RSI will also hear what your friend at nitrous outlet has to say.

I do think nitrous and gen 4 is the perfect marriage if you get a good set of forged pistons and rods to go with it . That is of course considering the price of twin turbos kits +50k or more for these cars and the 10k motec never change.

The owner would also be able to run the car like stock at road course and track events if wanted NA power only, just put the bottle away.

Though it was good to mention the positive aspects of running nitrous since most guys only mentioned the negative ones which I also understood why those were said.

 

[plumcrazy]

you might also wanna call doug levin at DLM. i know he likes nitrous and runs it on some cars, im not sure if he has done it on a gen4 though. if he has, he will give you advice.

954-434-9356

 

[V10lover]

again....nitrous 100 wet shot on agen 2 or 3 and id say go for it....but risking your gen4 engine on an at this point unproven safety wise spray to beat a c6????

Ive had a base vette .....nice car for sure. but your viper wins the race before it even begins....sorry plum...but thats how I honestly feel. OP....if you want spray then take your time....If you can get it installed and tuned properly before your race then kool. Id personally go with a 50 shot and then 75 shot and thats it...last time I went to the dealer their was a juiced gen3 whos engine was blown....my budeies c6z06 blew off a 75 shot after just 10 sprays.QUOTE

Twister,

Everything in life offers a risk to us. I may die tomorrow after trying to cross the street in front of my house because got runover by a car that accidentaly lost control and comes towards me.

What I am trying to say is, even Guys with 1.6L honda civics are spraying 50hp shots in their little fart cans and 160 hp tiny engine, guys with new mustang 5.0s are spraying 100-150 with no problems in a motor that has 5 liters of displacement and 435hp and a completely non forged engine. Those litle things are taking it so why an 8.4L V10 Big Block engine only pushing 600 hp for its displacement cannot take a small shot of nitrous every now and then?

What do those cars mentioned by me above have about being nitrous friendly since those guys are spraying their cast pistons and ultra thin connecting rods all day long at the track and having nothing but fun. I gotta friend with a new mustang 5.0 that even sprayed a 200 shot in front of me and nothing happens to his motor. He also was spraying a 150 shot ALL the time at the track and his 5.0 with 435 hp with headers and exhaust does not give up... ?????

I am very confident that most of the vipers that blew up were not properly tuned for nitrous. The owners either sprayed to much, or the kit was crap, etc.. and etc.. It could be a lot of different things...

z06 has a too fragile of a motor overall I agree with you but, a stout viper engine cant take a 75 hp shot only if our pistons are made out of wood in my opinion or if dodge used the worse pistons in history of the automobile to build a gen 4 engine.. I read that our engine blocks themselves(any viper) can take almost 2000hp but dont know how true that its.

 

[V10lover]

The Viper is a notch up on the food-chain IMO, but I still like vettes and you have to respect the power the LS motors can put down when modded. Personally I feel I have nothing to prove to any of my modded vette buddies... and well, I've learned that there's always someone faster than you.

I say take em down V10lover, but if in the end it doesn't pan out..you still have the superior vehicle. The track is where it's at for the ACR. He may or may not get you in a drag race, but on the track I doubt he'd have a prayer.

I like vettes dont get me wrong. I just dont like to lose for them.

Dont want to be the fastest out there. My goal is only to beat a supercharged C6 corvette with 615-630RWHP for now and I personally wanted a little bit more power on my car(like 80-100hp more). I love being scared by the car and losing a little bit control behind the wheel. LOL.

Could not agree more with you that ACRs are for track and finding a good track around here is also what I had been looking for.

 

[Sonoman]

Everything in life offers a risk to us. I may die tomorrow after trying to cross the street in front of my house because I got run over by a car that accidentally lost control and comes towards me.

Accidentally, my ass-- heard there's a few angry 'Vette lovers that want to Frogger you first chance they get...

Just stirring the ***.

 

[alpha85]

Add the Mopar PCM and use Torco fuel additive. Mix 1.6oz per gallon to 91 octane. That will give you 95 octane. My gen IV with Belanger headers & exhaust made 630rwhp 613rwtq

 

[Dayton937]

Add the Mopar PCM and use Torco fuel additive. Mix 1.6oz per gallon to 91 octane. That will give you 95 octane. My gen IV with Belanger headers & exhaust made 630rwhp 613rwtq

Or mix 93 with C16 Too bad it would have to be tuned for it :/


On a side note - when I ****** up my ACR, if I get bored with it, it'll be going TT. If you know a decent speed shop with fabrication skills like I do, TT will be the way to go. Unfortunately, the tuning part would have to be solved by then

 

[Big Turkey]

Coming from a vette LS3, I made 840rwhp on a Procharger D1 on E85 stock bottom end. Stayed together for 9 months then I sold it and bought my Viper. Just FYI.

Should be a good run hope you're a good driver!

 

[99FRC]

Had a similar race the other week. Procharged vette putting down 685rwhp vs my 08 Viper 600rwhp. We had 6 races from 40 or 50 to 140-160 and split the wins. It seemed the driver who got the move took the win.


Drivers race....don't get caught sleeping!!!!

 

[challenger&viper]

Had a similar race the other week. Procharged vette putting down 685rwhp vs my 08 Viper 600rwhp. We had 6 races from 40 or 50 to 140-160 and split the wins. It seemed the driver who got the move took the win.


Drivers race....don't get caught sleeping!!!!

Can u please tell what u have on ur viper.