Gen V ACR performance speculation...

[Martin]

^^I have a suspicion the zr1 will be released before the ACR, so if you are the type to jump the gun, you might be sorry you didn't wait! Ralph says the new ACR will be 'radical' so I don't expect just an aero upgrade. I am hoping that I don't have to dump $50k in upgrades to make it what I want it to be (track beast) like the Gen II & IV. The bar is raised now, Ralph has spent a lot of time at the track with the Gen IV so I don't expect that to be the case with the Gen V. Then again, if the bean counters have their way....

I'm with you on the upgrades to make the car what we want... I just learned (the hard way) and when things go bad, those upgrades are virtually worthless (even though I had them documented and they were brand new, insurance company depreciated them by over 85% on the grounds that a "potential buyer of the pre-crash car would not pay much for them"). So, not a good investment financially...

Regarding when the car comes out, my "complete guess" is that it will be a 2016 car with orders starting in 2015 if enough Gen V cars are sold to make the business unit show a profit. It might be a Gen VI. Engine will be a lot more than just a re-tune of the current car - no headers (due to emissions crap), but will hopefully have direct injection, higher compression, further refinements to intake/exhaust, improved valvetrain, higher redline, kick-butt brakes/suspension, and active aero. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it's going to be a rather long wait. I'm thinking about picking up a TA because that's basically the option package I would outfit a car with today, but financially it would probably kill me - unless I could find one for a price where I could sell it later and not get murdered to death on the resale value...

 

[bluestreak]

There is not going to be a 200k Viper. For what? No one is going to buy it (except maybe Boxer). It would depreciate rapidly because it doesn't appeal to the froo froo market.

They need to keep the same formula from the Gen IV ACR. Barebones, lots of DF and adjustable suspension. The base Gen V has already proven to be a better platform than the Gen V, not they just need to "ACR" it. Price should be close to the current SRT Viper, limit production to 500 the first year, maybe follow with an X version like they did before. Just grab a few engineers and a test driver, bolt on some aero, throw some really good adjustable shocks on their, get to the track and the wind tunnel and be done with it.

SRT isn't going to say anything about the ACR until the SRT and GTS versions have done well enough to justify one, and even then, they will stay tight lipped. We will be lucky to see another ACR like the Gen IV, in both dominant performance and value.

 

[Viper Grenade]

I would like to see a twin turbo ACR making 800hp. Would be cake with a viper motor. Then it would be nothing shoe of a tune and boltons away from 1000rwhp monster. The aftermarket would be able to sell the car for SRT. Simply look at the GTR. Nissan can't build them fast enough.

 

[mnc2886]

I would like to see a twin turbo ACR making 800hp. Would be cake with a viper motor. Then it would be nothing shoe of a tune and boltons away from 1000rwhp monster. The aftermarket would be able to sell the car for SRT. Simply look at the GTR. Nissan can't build them fast enough.

The GTR isn't selling well...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...0GcIazF8Jh3KACQQg&sig2=Oj5temXhYBie9wcvwC4aRA

http://www.autospies.com/news/The-N...ements-Ever-WHY-Doesn-t-It-SELL-BETTER-74416/

The GTR came close to being scrapped. The Gen V is unfortunately heading down that same path. We don't need a 800 HP factory Viper. Maybe the Gen V needs a HP bump, maybe it doesn't, but if SRT finds a way to strip 200 lbs or a little more, the ACR will be a monster. Look how competitive the Z06 Carbon Edition was with 133 HP less than the ZR1. It was just a second off the pace at Laguna Seca. All the ACR needs to focus on is weight, downforce, braking, and handling and you'll have your world ******.

 

[ACRucrazy]

We don't need a 800 HP factory Viper. Maybe the Gen V needs a HP bump, maybe it doesn't, but if SRT finds a way to strip 200 lbs or a little more, the ACR will be a monster. Look how competitive the Z06 Carbon Edition was with 133 HP less than the ZR1. It was just a second off the pace at Laguna Seca. All the ACR needs to focus on is weight, downforce, braking, and handling and you'll have your world ******.

Agreed, we dont need 800 HP. We need positive press. 800 HP would only be a slice of the pie. SRT needs the whole thing which can be had without 800 HP.

 

[Boxer12]

Incremental improvements work for cars with strong customer bases, but I am not sure the Viper has that base anymore. It needs to blow away the competition again. I think Ralph and SRT can do it. Just my 2c.

 

[Martin]

Incremental improvements work for cars with strong customer bases, but I am not sure the Viper has that base anymore. It needs to blow away the competition again. I think Ralph and SRT can do it. Just my 2c.

Kinda my thoughts, too. When the original RT/10 came out, it was completely unique and shook the world. Then, when the GTS came out, it did the same thing all over again. The next big news was the Gen IV ACR - all of a sudden the media went nuts over it. Now, we need an absolutely insane car to make a big, loud, audacious statement to the world that its sole purpose is complete utter destruction of what people think an American car is all about.

 

[mnc2886]

There is not going to be a 200k Viper. For what? No one is going to buy it (except maybe Boxer). It would depreciate rapidly because it doesn't appeal to the froo froo market.

They need to keep the same formula from the Gen IV ACR. Barebones, lots of DF and adjustable suspension. The base Gen V has already proven to be a better platform than the Gen V, not they just need to "ACR" it. Price should be close to the current SRT Viper, limit production to 500 the first year, maybe follow with an X version like they did before. Just grab a few engineers and a test driver, bolt on some aero, throw some really good adjustable shocks on their, get to the track and the wind tunnel and be done with it.

SRT isn't going to say anything about the ACR until the SRT and GTS versions have done well enough to justify one, and even then, they will stay tight lipped. We will be lucky to see another ACR like the Gen IV, in both dominant performance and value.

That is exactly what people said about a $140k Viper.....

 

[bluestreak]

That is exactly what people said about a $140k Viper.....

And those numbers are close together right? And the Gen V is selling like hotcakes.......


So that makes all of the sense in the world to tag on another 60k.


(sarcasm off)

 

[ACR steve]

Ralph is not building an ACR that's not aworld leader and it wont be 200K......I guarantee it

 

[mnc2886]

And those numbers are close together right? And the Gen V is selling like hotcakes.......


So that makes all of the sense in the world to tag on another 60k.


(sarcasm off)

That's part of the reason why I said it. I agree with you. I was being sarcastic too. I strongly disagreed with the pricing of the Gen V and your post points out that pricing will be just as key as performance for the next ACR.

 

[Boxer12]

The new GT3-R is $450k. That's twice the cost of the Comp Cpe and almost 4 times the ACR-X. Speed costs money. Is $200k really out if the question for a world beating ACR? People are keeping the Viper down with low pricing demands! Putting a wing and CC brakes on the Gen V isn't going to make much of a splash..it's not 'radical' that's for sure. Just sayin.

 

[BigDawg]

700HP and 2" wider in the rear and the Gen V would have been selling like hot cakes, at the current price point. I've come around to the gen V, sides and front are beautiful. But you guys seriously underestimate the power of a few inches (lol). The Viper was SO CLOSE to perfection but a few oversights exponentially decreased the wow factor. The front over powering the rear is one of them. It's almost like a reverse lambo. The front looks wider than the rear at most angles. On the interior, they did a great job but it's boring. It's not signature VIper. IMHO they should have found a way to incorporate the 4 round gauges on the dash like the previous gens. That was a signature Viper trait.

Compare the 2012-13 SRT Jeep versus the 2014. The 12-13 were sitting on dealer lots everywhere. Subtle changes and now dealers can't keep the 2014s in stock. No HP increase. A price increase. A slightly revised rear and facia, new transmission, and slightly upgraded interior. It's the subtle things that can exponentially enhance the appeal of a vehicle. SRT should take note.

Do I want the ACR to cost $200k? No. Knowing what I know now do I think SRT can and will deliver an ACR like people are expecting without exceeding the Gen V maxed out price? No. Originally I expected the ACR to be around $150k. Now I'm not so sure. If you want a stripped down ACR similar to the previous generation with budget mods to make it go fast, then sure. Well under $150k is realistic. But if you really want a class leading exotic that will run with the supercars (P1, 918, LaFerrari, Huayra, Koenigsegg) it's going to take more than that. Simply making the current dimension street car go fast won't do that. That car has some wow factor but not near enough. This begs the question, does SRT want to satisfy the current customer base, or are they serious about stealing high end exotic buyers? If it's the former, then a stripped down ACR will work. If it's the latter, SRT better step up and blow everyone's minds with how far they went.

 

[Boxer12]

It seems to me there are two options already to satisfy the core customers, the base SRT, and the TA. Why would they complain about a higher priced ACR?? I don't think you can have low tech heavy V10 and win this track war. Call me a skeptic I guess but I just don't see a couple hundred pounds lighter Gen V getting significantly better lap times than an ACR-X (also 640 HP) with Michelin racing slicks.

 

[bluestreak]

The new GT3-R is $450k. That's twice the cost of the Comp Cpe and almost 4 times the ACR-X. Speed costs money. Is $200k really out if the question for a world beating ACR? People are keeping the Viper down with low pricing demands! Putting a wing and CC brakes on the Gen V isn't going to make much of a splash..it's not 'radical' that's for sure. Just sayin.

The GT3-R is a full blown race car. Not street legal in the least. An RSR. There is nothing to compare with an ACR to be driven in the street. You certainly won't see any GT3-R's compared in the magazines like the rest of the cars. And those are only sold to people racing in pro series as well. Might as well compare the ACR to C6R or GTS-R price and performance.

 

[mnc2886]

The GT3-R is a full blown race car. Not street legal in the least. An RSR. There is nothing to compare with an ACR to be driven in the street. You certainly won't see any GT3-R's compared in the magazines like the rest of the cars. And those are only sold to people racing in pro series as well. Might as well compare the ACR to C6R or GTS-R price and performance.

Bingo, but I wouldn't mind if they looked similar.

 

[Boxer12]

^^I think you guys miss the point...make the ACR more like a race car than the street car. The TA satisfies the street car occasional track day niche. The ACR should be 'radical' like Ralph has been quoted as saying. Make the ACR a true 'street legal race car.' (Think "F40") There is nothing 'radical' about adding wing and brakes to the same basic car.

 

[BigDawg]

^^I think you guys miss the point...make the ACR more like a race car than the street car. The TA satisfies the street car occasional track day niche. The ACR should be 'radical' like Ralph has been quoted as saying. Make the ACR a true 'street legal race car.' (Think "F40") There is nothing 'radical' about adding wing and brakes to the same basic car.

I hear ya completely. It's the only way the Viper is really going to take customers away from more expensive marks.

 

[Paul Hawker]

"Make children quake in fear"

 

[bluestreak]

^^I think you guys miss the point...make the ACR more like a race car than the street car. The TA satisfies the street car occasional track day niche. The ACR should be 'radical' like Ralph has been quoted as saying. Make the ACR a true 'street legal race car.' (Think "F40") There is nothing 'radical' about adding wing and brakes to the same basic car.

That still has nothing to do with comparing to cars that race competitively. Any semblance of those days are long gone. This is the era of faux racing. People want to look the part, but still ride in comfort. Which is why all of the manufacturers are catering to it. The older crowd that buy Vette's and Vipers are not going to want a loud, obnoxious, stiff, finicky handling brute with a ton of torque. Most people driving Vipers on the track (and on the road) are scared to push the car as it is.

I don't see how your idea does anything positive for the Viper. With airbags, TC etc becoming federal law, and more sanctions on the way. The Viper is going the opposite direction regardless of what SRT would "like" to build.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a car like that. But it's a whole lot easier said than done.

 

[chorps]

That still has nothing to do with comparing to cars that race competitively. Any semblance of those days are long gone. This is the era of faux racing. People want to look the part, but still ride in comfort. Which is why all of the manufacturers are catering to it. The older crowd that buy Vette's and Vipers are not going to want a loud, obnoxious, stiff, finicky handling brute with a ton of torque. Most people driving Vipers on the track (and on the road) are scared to push the car as it is.

I don't see how your idea does anything positive for the Viper. With airbags, TC etc becoming federal law, and more sanctions on the way. The Viper is going the opposite direction regardless of what SRT would "like" to build.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a car like that. But it's a whole lot easier said than done.

I found it interesting that this review said the Gen V has no side airbags...
http://www.driving.ca/montreal/research-car/roadtest/Road+test+2013+Viper/8903126/story.html

 

[SilveRT8]

I found it interesting that this review said the Gen V has no side airbags...
http://www.driving.ca/montreal/research-car/roadtest/Road+test+2013+Viper/8903126/story.html

And a "Power glass sunroof" in the standard features

 

[BigDawg]

That still has nothing to do with comparing to cars that race competitively. Any semblance of those days are long gone. This is the era of faux racing. People want to look the part, but still ride in comfort. Which is why all of the manufacturers are catering to it. The older crowd that buy Vette's and Vipers are not going to want a loud, obnoxious, stiff, finicky handling brute with a ton of torque. Most people driving Vipers on the track (and on the road) are scared to push the car as it is.

I don't see how your idea does anything positive for the Viper. With airbags, TC etc becoming federal law, and more sanctions on the way. The Viper is going the opposite direction regardless of what SRT would "like" to build.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a car like that. But it's a whole lot easier said than done.

Yes because the Scuderia, Superleggera, SV, etc. are comfortable? Those all sell VERY well for Ferrari and Lamborghini and they will beat the hell out of you. I have been in an SV and a Scuderia, never a Superleggera because it's made for little people. How about Porsche GT3, GT2, GT3RS, GT2RS??? Those all sell VERY well and command a premium. They are very far from being comfortable.

There is a strong market for a bad ass ACR, but half-assing it with some bootleg version isn't going to cut it with that crowd. SRT needs to up their game if they want to meet the expectations of that crowd. If they do it right the buyers will come. Period.

 

[Boxer12]

^^totally agree. Those cars may have some techno tricks, but there is nothing 'faux' about them. All great cars that are setting the bar high for SRT.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Yes because the Scuderia, Superleggera, SV, etc. are comfortable? Those all sell VERY well for Ferrari and Lamborghini and they will beat the hell out of you. I have been in an SV and a Scuderia, never a Superleggera because it's made for little people. How about Porsche GT3, GT2, GT3RS, GT2RS??? Those all sell VERY well and command a premium. They are very far from being comfortable.

There is a strong market for a bad ass ACR, but half-assing it with some bootleg version isn't going to cut it with that crowd. SRT needs to up their game if they want to meet the expectations of that crowd. If they do it right the buyers will come. Period.

+1 and to add the G4 ACR beat them all down on the Ring. The new ACR has huge shoes to fill but it has to fill them and then some as the competition has stepped its game up big time with DCT, AWD, downforce and big power. A GTS-R look-a-like for the street with street car comfort [a la GT2/Superleggera] is the way to go imho.