Gen V Boost Kits

[Bobpantax]

The purpose of this thread is to allow any vendor who currently has a (key word) "tested" kit available for the Gen V. If you are a vendor, please post the following data about the kit and yourself:

1. Dynograph stating type of dyno used and weather conditions.

2. Components of kit.

3. Cost of kit.

4. How much the kit has been tested on the car both at a drag strip ( state results) and on a road course.

5. What kind of intercooler system is being used and how effective is it to reduce heat soak?

6. How much does the kit weigh? (In other words, if the kit is added, will its weight affect the suspension enough to require a different suspension tune?

7. Will instillation of the kit require a different fuel pump or booster?

8. Would it be best to upgrade the driveshaft, differential and half shafts if the kit is installed and the car is used for drag racing?

9. Does a custom calibration come with the kit?

10. What warranty are you giving with the kit? ( In this regard, Paxton provided a warranty on their Gen III kits.)

11. How long have you been in business?


Based on the past posts on this forum, many of us who had Gen III Paxton kits installed by a competent installer had a great experience with the product. One of the reasons for that was that Paxton extensively tested the application before it was released and afterward kept on top of it. By answering all of the questions above, a boost application vendor can give us a good picture of where their product might fit with respect to power, durability and reliability. It is also important to know the likelihood of the vendor being around in the future to obtain replacement parts, etc.

 

[EdwardETraylorIII]

I'm not a vendor so I cannot respond here... But we have a few TT cars running around now....

 

[ViperJeff]

I'm not a vendor so I can respond here... But we have a few TTcars runnign around now....

Get with CJ, maybe there's a way to get that changed

 

[Bobpantax]

I did not mean to limit responses to only vendors who have signed up. I am trying to get a picture of the current universe of offerings out there with some specific data. The key is posting the specific data requested so that Viper owners have enough information to accurately evaluate the product and the vendor.

 

[ViperJeff]

Bob, if they are not a vender, they really can't discuss their product

 

[3whitevipers]

Doesn't "Heffner" in Sarasota do kits for Vipers-Lambos-and other exotics?--Dave

 

[Bobpantax]

I could not find anything on his site that indicates that he is doing any Gen V Viper systems. They are not even in the "underdevelopment" section. I think he makes his $ with Lambos, Ford GTs and Audi R8s. He used to do earlier Gen Vipers.

 

[Texas1]

Calvo, D3, Ed, & Nth moto all make turbo kits (as I've mentioned before D3 has a supercharger kit)...feel free to search for your specific info regarding these companies...

 

[Texas1]

Oh...I think RSI (cough) also has a kit...

 

[Free2go]

Oh...I think RSI (cough) also has a kit...

RSI and their clients have been quiet as a mouse lately. Wether they are taking care of their customers or are having them sign an iron clad non disclosure agreement prior to service is a mystery to me.

 

[mbccenter]

Nth Moto has a really nice setup. Big power possible and will not find a cleaner install. Not cheap

 

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Since this is a little dead... And this is a great forum... And my posts usually tend to make things very lively very quickly....

Here are some basic general answers to your questions.... (My company name shall not be mentioned - in hopes to provide some general guidance on these questions... My answers are more of a guideline as what you should expect when you choose a vendor to do business with)

1. Dynograph stating type of dyno used and weather conditions.

Tons of dyno graphs online. These cars make ridiculous torque (well in excess of 1,000 ft-lbs...) on almost all dyno graphs at around 8-9 PSI.

2. Components of kit.

Precision components (gates, bov's and turbos). No cheap components and a lot of handmade parts go into each kit. (Full build takes about 2-3 weeks depending on options selected)

3. Cost of kit.

Prices are anywhere from $25K-$45K depending on the options you want... This is accurate for most vendors. Note, there is significant savings when employing the stock ECU (which is perfectly capable of controlling the engine under boost) on a basic 950 RWHP build. When you go standalone with the kit, the price increments about $8-$9K.... (again, it's just not necessary to pay this premium anymore).

4. How much the kit has been tested on the car both at a drag strip (state results) and on a road course.

I know of 6 TT cars running around problem free (that I've touched) - a few have been on the road for over two years. Reliability just isn't an issue with these motors on boost!
There is no reason these cars won't run 9's ALL DAY with a decent driver and a drag radial. We don't take our customer cars to the strip - that's up to them.
I don't know many customers that want a TT car to road race with..?

5. What kind of intercooler system is being used and how effective is it to reduce heat soak?

We have several options but our in-house built intercooler seems to be a crowd pleaser. Zero heat soak issues in 99+ degree south Florida heat!

6. How much does the kit weigh? (In other words, if the kit is added, will its weight affect the suspension enough to require a different suspension tune?

Basic, non-intercoolercooled kit saves about 40 Lbs over stock. Add intercooler and the kit is about 18 Lbs less than the factory weight. A NO FACTOR as far as the suspension is concerned.

7. Will installation of the kit require a different fuel pump or booster?

Basic 700-750 RWHP on pump gas, no. However, if you want more power or E85, then yes, an upgraded fuel system is required.

8. Would it be best to upgrade the driveshaft, differential and half shafts if the kit is installed and the car is used for drag racing?

I haven't yet experienced any drive line failures and we've made over 1200 RWHP multiple times (yes, on the stock motor).

9. Does a custom calibration come with the kit?

Yes, we custom build each tune on our dyno. We deliver the car turn-key utilizing the stock computer. We can certainly go standalone but haven't really seen a need to go stand alone up to about 1200 RWHP. I'm in the process of building a Twin 76MM built motor car now and I plan to see just how much power the stock computer can handle... No one has actually found the limits yet.

10. What warranty are you giving with the kit? ( In this regard, Paxton provided a warranty on their Gen III kits.)

1 Year parts and craftsmanship warranty. This is fairly standard.

11. How long have you been in business?

These answers were meant more as a general guideline so I'm not going to answer this question because I don't want to plug myself here - just trying to help folks who might be considering the boosted route some basic general guidelines on what to expect.

 

[ViperJeff]

Much appreciated

And...... as we continue to build on the VCA we can make it worth your time to be a vendor

Humbly
Jeff

 

[Bobpantax]

Thank you for your post Ed. Can you please contact the Florida owner you refer to and get him or her to post about the car? It would be appreciated. Also, would your answers all be the same for a centrifugal supercharger set up? A twin screw set up? I would assume some significant differences - especially weight wise for the twin screw.

Lastly, what is being removed to allow for there to be a weight reduction of 40 pounds? Don't the turbos and extra parts add weight?

 

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Jeff,

Thanks!

Bob,

I have just let the owner know that this forum exists. He may or may not post here.

As far as Centri, well, with an F1X you should be able to make 1200 or 1300 RWHP also. Additionally, the weight changes should be comparable.. But I have no first-hand knowledge as I have not built nor installed the Prohcarger kit on a Gen V. Tuning would be about the same... Absolutely NO NEED for a standalone if your tuner knows what they are doing.

I wouldn't put a twin screw on this engine. Too much unusable power down low..Heck, some would argue the power that the Turbos provide is unusable - but I sure love it.

The entire stock exhaust including cats (which is heavy) is completely removed. I employ AL downpipes so there is significant weight savings there and the turbos are relatively lightweight. Of course, if you wanted some sort of crazy Twin 76mm build, well, those are certainly heavier turbos and would negate any weight savings. However, I only know of one man crazy enough to build a twin 76mm turbo build on a 522 CI V10 running alcohol....

 

[broomrider]

Broom likes this conversation. Although I may not understand every nuance of it. The thought of extra horsepower is somewhat thrilling. From a ladies
Perspective anyway.

 

[08ViperCoupe]

Hello Bob. I own the Viper that Ed put the TT kit on. It runs very well on the stock computer. I opted to go e85 due to that fuel's capabilities/characteristics. The car made 887whp and the dyno graph shows an indicated 1,036 ft/lbs of torque. Another individual (on another forum) said that my torque number wasn't accurate. I'm not sure if he owns and operates another shop that competes with Ed or he's just a dyno expert? In any case, my HP numbers are 100% accurate and my torque number might be slightly less due to spark blow out (*only* high 800s to mid 900s?) in any case, the car makes huge power and runs absolutely perfect. My opinion (and this is just my opinion) is that some people care highly about "bragging rights" and want to be able to say they make 1 more HP than you. I'm not that guy. Nonetheless, just to prove them wrong I am considering taking the car back to the dyno to prove what it's capable of. Bottom line: at 7 to 8 psi of boost the car is laying down pretty big numbers and is super, super, fun to drive! If you own a Gen V Viper and are considering purchasing a kit, you should contact Ed. He is brilliant, and his work is top notch!

I tried to upload the dyno graph, but the site is telling me I have exceeded my quota of pictures. I attempted to delete the pics I had previously loaded and the site would not allow me to delete them. (i.e. I do not have enough space to post the dyno graph).


edited

 

[ViperJeff]

Feel free to email the graph to me and I'll post it tonight

[email protected]

Or you can try the gallery

 

[ViperJeff]

dyno sheet added to post #17

 

[Vital Velocity]

Oh...I think RSI (cough) also has a kit...

lol stop it.

 

[Texas1]

.................

 

[08ViperCoupe]

Thanks Jeff for posting the graph!

As I mentioned earlier, car is running great, my only issue with the car right now is finding a tire that will hook this kind of power. The Nittos (even after heating them up) just can't hook unless you start in 3rd. If I have a complaint about Ed's work, it's that he exceeded my expectations!

 

[Bobpantax]

You might want to see if they make the size in Mickey Thompson Street E.T.s But, if you are running stock half shafts, be ready for one to break at your power level if you do hook. Also, if you choose to install more robust half shafts, and you have a stock drive shaft and differential, you may not break a half shaft but you may break the driveshaft coupling or shaft or the differential. Same deal with the tranny. Drag racing with a full hook up at your power level puts tremendous stress on the stock drivetrain. Not debatable. Just basic physics. If someone tells you differently, they do not know what they are talking about. The OEM equipment has some wiggle room in it but not enough to cover what you are producing.

 

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Just FYI... I've dead hooked 1200+ RWHP on multiple Gen V's in second gear and not had any driveline component failures. I've also dead hooked 900+ RWHP in first (utilizing boost by MPH) on this platform and not had any failures to date. This has been tested across multiple cars. I'm not saying Bob is wrong - at the drag strip he'd be absolutely right (eventually at some point.. How soon is anyone's guess) but on the streets with good traction, the driveline holds up very well at these power levels.

 

[Bobpantax]

My post is referring to a first gear launch. As for testing, the OEMs test extensively and the drivetrain safety buffer is 100 HP or so above stock. Beyond that the probability of failure increases as power increases.

It should also be noted that a half shaft failure can, under certain circumstances, be a pretty hairy event and result in loss of control of the vehicle. If I was running the power level of this fellow, I would change out the half shafts, the differential and upgrade the tranny by shipping it to John Donato in Michigan. That is what I did with my old Paxtonized Gen III Viper and it was well worth it. I might also consider a stronger driveshaft depending on the tolerance level of the stock Gen V drive shaft.

Just FYI... I've dead hooked 1200+ RWHP on multiple Gen V's in second gear and not had any driveline component failures. I've also dead hooked 900+ RWHP in first (utilizing boost by MPH) on this platform and not had any failures to date. This has been tested across multiple cars. I'm not saying Bob is wrong - at the drag strip he'd be absolutely right (eventually at some point.. How soon is anyone's guess) but on the streets with good traction, the driveline holds up very well at these power levels.

 

[EdwardETraylorIII]

The TR6060 isn't in any need of any upgrade at this power level... I've run (as have many others) these trannies on much higher HP applications without any issues (in mile and half mile races....).
I don't know of anyone that has found the OEM driveshaft limitations yet - so no need to upgrade that either.

The halfshafts will eventually break at the drag strip but, to my knowledge, we haven't found the limit of those yet, either... And there are a lot of 1,000+ RWHP TT Gen V's running around now.

The limitations of the Gen 1-3 Vipers are NOT comparable to the Gen V limitations.

 

[Bobpantax]

The limitation regarding about 100 extra HP of wiggle room before reliability and durability start to decrease is accurate. Per Dick Winkles public comments when he was still with Chrysler, the engine was built with the idea that some Viper owners would utilize boost applications. But they were thinking in the vicinity of 5 pounds or so with a twin screw since Arrow Racing Engines had development mules running twin screws as early as 2014. Cars "running around" does not mean reliably and durably running around. That is why I asked all of the specific questions above. These cars are, and were, designed as an engineering organic whole. If one system is altered, it affects other systems. Of course some like to take more risk with drivetrain parts than others due to budget constraints or otherwise. That's there choice. But I would hope that it would be an informed choice.

Also, with respect to your posts regarding weight savings above, it is important to note that if weight is taken off the middle/back of the car and added to the front, even though the overall weight may decrease, handling may be affected due to the change from back to front. So for those who do road race their boosted application Viper ( I did when I had it), it could mean a suspension tune/adjustment might be needed to account for the change.

 

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Well, People have certainly exceeded those "Additional 100 HP" margins.... By about... Four to five times that. And Just an FYI, those supercharged [Gen V] engines that were tested were tested at 8-9 PSI and there were no failures at those boost levels.

In my limited professional testing I've seen them live up to (But not past) 18 PSI.

 

[Bobpantax]

I think that you and I have different views on testing, reliability and durability. Testing involves more than a couple of dyno runs and anecdotal feed back from a few people. As for Arrow, the package that was going to be available by this year was not at the 8 to 9 pound level. It was/is, if it is still going to be done at all, at the 6 pound level as shown on the website of Viper Xchange. That system, with 6 pounds, was projected to produce 900 flywheel HP as also stated on their website. And, if it was me, I would carefully assess whether it would be safer to modify or change out any other drivetrain components if this system becomes available and one wishes to use it.

By the way, the Gen IV and V all have TR 6060s. I should have made it clear that I had a Gen IV TR 6060 in my Gen III which I then had upgraded by John Donato to make it a true six speed and harden it to make it more durable at my power level. The stock TR6060 is certainly a robust transmission but not designed, in stock form, to withstand repeated drag racing type shifts with a power level of 887/1036 at the flywheel. And by the way, I forgot to mention the need to consider upgrading the flywheel and the clutch at that power level.

Well, People have certainly exceeded those "Additional 100 HP" margins.... By about... Four to five times that. And Just an FYI, those supercharged [Gen V] engines that were tested were tested at 8-9 PSI and there were no failures at those boost levels.

In my limited professional testing I've seen them live up to (But not past) 18 PSI.