Gen V has it's work cut out for it at the Ring...

[chorps]

SRT already has a good idea of what the Gen V will do around the ring. Their simulation for the Gen IV ACR was pretty darn close.

The biggest problem that SRT faces is budgetary (as usual). Almost all the other players have year-round offices at the 'ring, they have extended testing facilities and wait months for the right days to pull their official runs. For the Gen IV ACRs to put together their shoestring budgets and run record lap times is pretty incredible, and it has been a testament to how fast the ACRs truly are.

The ACR's last run was lucky too, in that Ron Howard's guy donated the Rush film's booked time for SRT to try for a better lap time on that extra day.
http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2013/09/sharing-the-ring-with-rush.html

The 'ring is a huge track, so heat soak tends to come into play more than the shorter tracks like Laguna or Willow. Still, you can see that Nissan is pulling out all stops for a great lap time. Best of luck to them, I'm betting the TA will lap the 'ring faster than the ACR by a hair if and when SRT gets around to it. That's just my offhand guess, I didn't ask anyone at SRT to give me any hints.

 

[SnakeBitten]

It would be a huge investment in time and money with no upside and only downside. It won't sell any more cars even if it was faster than the ACR, a slower time than the ACR or God forbid the ZR1 would be fatal to a car on life support now. SRT knows it and it won't happen till (if) there is a Gen 5 ACR.

^^This...I totally agree with VJ. They miscalculated with the package they launched the car with and it has cost them big time. Why go to the Ring and take a chance at continuing the bleeding?

On another note, from the looks of the GTR link you posted the Viper has more than just the ZR1 to worry about now if it tries a Ring run with anything less than an ACR. I'm sure the 14 Nismo GTR will be faster than any of the Viper models out now with "only" its 575hp simply because of the lighter weight, DCT and AWD save maybe the TA. Some just don't understand that with those kind of high-tech drivetrain components a car doesn't have to match the Vipers 640hp as their DCT tranny and AWD will compensate big time for it. If a Viper runs it from a dig it will be lights out to any mph imho. From a roll it will be a dog fight kinda like we saw when the G5 ran a Porsche Turbo S. The GTRs DCT and AWD are that good. That's just the facts. And this is just straight line advantage. The old GTR did 7:18 at the Ring. Id bet the Nismo approaches the G4 ACR time if not finally eclipsing it. So its not a straightline only car just like the Viper. Its an alternative to the Viper in this price range albeit not better looking alternative lol. You just have to respect what the competition is coming out with nowadays folks.

 

[PDCjonny]

Well said SB and any real car enthusiast can recognize the inherent advantages in modern technology.
It's how a 3800 pound car with a six cylinder engine car run 7:19 at the Ring.
The Neanderthals just don't get it.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I still have hopes for this thread to not go down the drain like most Gen V threads..

 

[Nine Ball]

How about another twist. We already know that GM has run the C7 Corvette on the 'Ring. But, they haven't posted any times. I wonder if someone is embarrassed? Had it been great, it would have been posted all over the net as soon as it happened. Like they did with the 2014 Z/28 laps.

 

[Boxer12]

Lets put it this way, on paper, all the heavily modded (900 HP +, sequential tranny etc) and CF panel GT-R's that I face every TT weekend should decimate my ACR but the don't..why? I attribute it to the same reason that bumble bees fly...nobody knows how. Sure, somebody (personally, I don't count the prototype 918 'Wassach Edition' which was a factory test vehicle) will break the ACR record any day now, but so far, all have come up short. Why? Nobody knows why.

 

[VENOM V]

Lets put it this way, on paper, all the heavily modded (900 HP +, sequential tranny etc) and CF panel GT-R's that I face every TT weekend should decimate my ACR but the don't..why? I attribute it to the same reason that bumble bees fly...nobody knows how. Sure, somebody (personally, I don't count the prototype 918 'Wassach Edition' which was a factory test vehicle) will break the ACR record any day now, but so far, all have come up short. Why? Nobody knows why.

LOL, love the way you put that! Viper is the king of the road course and record-holder at every track that I drive - Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Spring Mountain, and Buttonwillow. It's the underfunded "low-tech" underdog that continually over-achieves. The 2800 pound Ferrari 458 Challenge running on full slicks at Thunderhill should have been able to decimate my stock Viper, but it was not able to. Nor was the 750 HP Saleen S7, McLaren MP4, or any of the Porsches, Ferraris or Corvettes that day. The Viper's a beast. It may not be able to hold all of these track records forever, but it unquestionably is one of the most successful track cars ever developed in the current era. I feel fortunate to be a part of it and experience the Viper on the track first-hand.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Well said SB and any real car enthusiast can recognize the inherent advantages in modern technology.
It's how a 3800 pound car with a six cylinder engine car run 7:19 at the Ring.
The Neanderthals just don't get it.

Sadly some have blinders on when it comes to very capable cars from other mfg's.

I agree with Boxer12/VV on the Vipers pedigree as a track monster. It still is obviously, with the latest G5. But will it be enough for this era? We shall see. So far its only been beaten by the Corvette ZR1 and Merc ACR-like Black Series SLS so it is indeed in the top echelon of the world class track monsters at least on Laguna. Personally though I doubt it could beat the ACR on equal tires. I'm sure those new Corsa's are very close to those much older MPSC's the 08 ran Laguna with. Id love to see a test with both the G5, G4 ACR and ZR1 on the same rubber around Laguna. Id all but guarantee the G4 ACR comes out on top. This is not an attack on the G5 guys.

On the subject of high-tech vs "lower"-tech, the Viper is already easily losing the straight line game it once held with an iron fist to most of the cars in its "performance" class even though it has the hp advantage on most of them. It won't be much longer, imho, before it will be losing the handling edge as evidenced by how many are nipping at its heels around the tracks. And I'm talking about the "non"-ACR variants of the Viper here.

Nissan is going in the right direction with shaving off significant weight from the GTR while improving its top shelf AWD/DCT systems along with more power. I hope SRT follows this equation with the next ACR sans AWD. If the old heavy, slower pig [GTR] did 7:19 at the Ring its obvious then that this lighter, more powerful, faster shifting Nismo version will be significantly faster than that. Currently I think its the only upcoming true production car south of 500k that has the best chance of beating that incredible ACR Ring time anytime soon. So I think this Nismo GTR [akin to the SRT's ACR] will be a threat to the "last" ACR's moreso than the upcoming ACR if SRT does the right thing. Weight reduction, a bit more power, better tires and the aero and it will have a field day against most of its comp on the Ring. The G4 ACR really was something special and the new ACR will have some huge shoes to fill. I don't think it needs DCT just yet but it certainly wouldn't hurt though it would add a bit of weight.

 

[donk_316]

Maybe the ACR is dead?
With the "track pack" for 2013s and then the TA for 2014 (which supposively was in the works for while and was rushed to production because of the motorend debacle)
Seems like there is no room to develop a "lighter faster stronger G5". MAYBE as a G6 assuming that even happens but i dont think youll see a G6. All you'll see are 2013, 2014 and then late production left over 2014s renamed to 2015 and then they will be done with Vipers.

 

[bluestreak]

Lets put it this way, on paper, all the heavily modded (900 HP +, sequential tranny etc) and CF panel GT-R's that I face every TT weekend should decimate my ACR but the don't..why? I attribute it to the same reason that bumble bees fly...nobody knows how. Sure, somebody (personally, I don't count the prototype 918 'Wassach Edition' which was a factory test vehicle) will break the ACR record any day now, but so far, all have come up short. Why? Nobody knows why.

They don't because guys throw money instead of driving talent at them. But a 900 hp GT-R with aero that is well driven is Grand-Am GT fast for a couple of laps. The Topspeed GT-R that has won the One Lap of America the last several years is proof of that. 1:23 at Road Atlanta on Slicks (Grand Am Qualifies at 1:22-1:23), 1:53 at VIR (Grand-Am 1:51-1:53) but on R6's, 1:34 at Barber on MPSS (Grand-AM before the track resurface qualified at 1:30.xx), I think a 1:52 at Daytona on MPSS. These times are nuts! Granted it's a pro driving, but still, nuts.

However IMO you should be able to run those times with 900 hp in just about any car with enough DF, Tire and pro driver. But by and large most GT-R guys are not great drivers, or even very good ones. So they get in and go fast for intermediate to early advanced DE times, then level out quickly because they don't learn the small fundamentals of going fast, and at certain lap times, you just aren't going any faster without the fundamentals. A dude won TTU NASA nationals at Miller this year with a 1:55 though. That's fast...

 

[Boxer12]

If you're talking a Grand-Am GT car that is running unrestricted at 900 HP, that is not a valid comparison to a production based car like an ACR or G5. That is race prepped beyond even an ACR-X, and the RaceCo GT-R TTU car that won Nat's was probably closer to 1200 HP plus it has a full CF body, $15k sequential trans and full slicks in TTU...I know that car and ran with it at Miller in April. He's gotten a lot faster since this pic was taken, but you can get the idea that its more like Jim Stout's GT-U prepped Viper. Just sayin...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[bluestreak]

If you're talking a Grand-Am GT car that is running unrestricted at 900 HP, that is not a valid comparison to a production based car like an ACR or G5. That is race prepped beyond even an ACR-X, and the RaceCo GT-R TTU car that won Nat's was probably closer to 1200 HP plus it has a full CF body, $15k sequential trans and full slicks in TTU...I know that car and ran with it at Miller in April. He's gotten a lot faster since this pic was taken, but you can get the idea that its more like Jim Stout's GT-U prepped Viper. Just sayin...

You must be registered for see images attach

I'm not talking about Grand Am cars running that power, I'm talking about GT-R's running similar times as Grand Am cars.

I don't know much about that particular car, but the ones on the east coast, Notably the Catesby/Forged GTR and the Topspeed GTR are full street car interior cars with 900 ish hp. They are both One Lap of America Legal (meaning street legal). Granted they have a ton of money in them in aero, CF body panels, suspension, motor builds, trans strengthening and other power enhancements. The Topspeed GTR ran a 1:23 on slicks with Leh Keen driving and the Forged ran a 1:24 on slicks with Mike Skeen driving. Grand AM ran fast laps of 1:22-1:23 at the race this year. That's fast for street legal cars.

I do not think highly of the cars at all with that much money and power in them. Just saying that properly driven, if your car has only minor enhancements, they'll eat your lunch, no matter what kind of car you have.

 

[Boxer12]

Interesting that Leh Keen, a Pro GT driver, could only equal the time in a car with so much more HP than a Grand Am car. I am no expert on the GT-R though, and I don't know if it had all the factory race parts or if its just aftermarket supplier stuff. I could put hand built suspension, sequential trans, and CF everything on my car, but I cannot get 900 HP. I think it would still give any aftermarket GT-R a run for its money without touching the interior. Also, anybody can do just about anything to those cars running in One Lap, its just a matter of having a VIN. I know the guys running Rat Racing Vettes in there, I compete against them in TT, but they are far from Cali or Colo street legal, but Ind no problem (no aftermarket checks at all). Just out of curiosity, I would like to see Tommy Archer run my car at VIR sometime and its not even caged and only runs with stock suspension. Even better if I had the $$$ to take it to 3R Racing and have them cage it and modify it up (they set up numerous Grand Am Championship winning cars including Tommy Archer's Viper). Now we have ventured pretty far afield from the subject of who's 'off the showroom' car will beat the ACR time at the Ring, and by how much!

 

[ACR steve]

GTR's 900hp -Grand Am???????? why are we talking about them when the Ring Record is about stock production cars

 

[bluestreak]

Point taken. Although the GT-R is the nearest practical vehicle threat to eclipse the ACR's ring record. Seems to me though that if SRT can field a team in ALMS which costs major money, they could use 100k (probably less?) to get some ring times for their vehicles. I honestly don't think the TA is equipped to do it unless they get some Trofeo's on it and make that an optional tire. Laguna was different drivers different days and Randy Pobst with the bit between his teeth from Ralph saying he was scared of the Viper. I don't think the TA beats the Gen IV ACR or ZR1 in same day same driver tests on a regular basis. Don't forget, Randy went much faster in all three Vipers that day, only to come back in a more regular setting and end up right back near the old times. Just sayin.

SRT should wait until the Gen V ACR is ready, if they plan on making one. The TA would be a huge risk not to beat even the Gen IV time as mentioned.



Boxer- I see what you are saying you can't directly compare a street car to a Rolex Purpose build race car hp wise. A 450 hp Gran Am Cup Car is as fast as my 600 hp car on the straights at VIR and Road Atlanta. I've seen the GTR, the interior, including AC are all in tact. Sure their may be some hidden weight loss up in there, but it's street legal anywhere. I think it has coilovers, not to different from what comes on your car stock, aero and mucho hp. Sure it gets killed in the turns and mauls on the straights vs a Cup Car, but I don't see any other street cars running grand am times (except I think the Corvette that won UTCC in 2012 was near street legal at a 1:54). I think Kuno ran a 2:00 flat at VIR in a Stock ACR. ACR-X's run in the 53 range, including Archer driving one. Grand Am is in the 52-53 range as well. You'd basically need an X to go that fast. But an X isn't a street car. Leh Keen did a 53 in the GT-R on R6's. Heck, he did a 1:56 on MPSS!! Michelin slicks and that's a 51 if not less. That's 9 seconds! Back to my original point though, the GT-R's you speak of, with 900 hp, if driven properly, will give you a good beatdown if your car isn't up to par. Don't judge the car by it's lap times unless there is a proper driver in it. I think 900 hp for the road course is stupid too, and these GT-R's have at least 100-150k in modifications worth of consumer dollars in them.

 

[SnakeEye]

... Seems to me though that if SRT can field a team in ALMS which costs major money, they could use 100k (probably less?) to get some ring times for their vehicles. I honestly don't think the TA is equipped to do it unless they get some Trofeo's on it and make that an optional tire. don't think the TA beats the Gen IV ACR or ZR1 in same day same driver tests on a regular basis. The TA would be a huge risk not to beat even the Gen IV time as mentioned...

I would think that the TA will rather certainly best the Gen iV ACR at the ring by several seconds and most probably the GTS equipped with P-Zero Corsas should be very close maybe even best it as well. Can't get around the Gen V's extra power, better gearing, improved suspension geometry and chassis stiffness. Will be very awesome when these cars are brought out there to get it on.

 

[bluestreak]

I would think that the TA will rather certainly best the Gen iV ACR at the ring by several seconds and most probably the GTS equipped with P-Zero Corsas should be very close maybe even best it as well. Can't get around the Gen V's extra power, better gearing, improved suspension geometry and chassis stiffness. Will be very awesome when these cars are brought out there to get it on.

I completely disagree. 40 hp is next to nothing on a track for a one lap blast. And even still, the Gen V hasn't been showing all that much more straight line speed than the Gen IV in acceleration tests (I.E. trap speeds). What you can't get around is the massive DF, adjustable coilovers and super sticky MPSC on the Gen IV ACR. Downforce is huge on a high hp car like the Viper because you can put the power down better. That combined with sticky tires is a nasty combination. The Gen V is a better overall car, but the SRT and GTS are certainly not faster around a circuit than the Gen IV ACR, nor likely will the TA be. But we will see soon enough once it starts going to more tracks.

There are plenty of records and fast times out there that have been set by the ACR. When the TA is available for 3rd party testing we will see how it does in the mag tests. We'll also see if SRT are confident enough in it to make a similar record run.

 

[SnakeEye]

I completely disagree. 40 hp is next to nothing on a track for a one lap blast. ...

Fact, Laguna Seca, USA... #1 slot, Viper TA 1:33.62 and no wing. Maybe you forgot the additional 40 lb-ft too.
Sure a Gen 5 ACR with wing/active aero and more downforce would be faster yet but it's not currently in production...

 

[VENOM V]

Fact, Laguna Seca, USA... #1 slot, Viper TA 1:33.62 and no wing. Maybe you forgot the additional 40 lb-ft too.
Sure a Gen 5 ACR with wing/active aero and more downforce would be faster yet but it's not currently in production...

Agreed, and it took that track record on inferior Corsa tires, no where near the performance of Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. I have been tracking my Gen V with Corsas, they are crappy tires. They chunk, they get the "groove of doom," and their tread block pattern is that of a rain-worthy street tire, not a true R compound. After 3-1/2 track days I've worn them down to the point where I can replace them with Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. Ralph says MPSCs are good for 2-second faster lap times than the Corsas. I believe it, and I've talked with several experienced track rats that have tracked a Gen V and had poor impressions of the Corsas as well. Put some MPSCs or Trofeo Rs on a Gen V and it will kick some butt even better than it does already.

Something else to ponder- The difference in lap times between the Gen V GTS and the TA was only 0.61 seconds. Add a real wing and splitter and some canards even to an otherwise stock GTS or TA and watch the lap times drop another few seconds. At the tracks I run at, a good wing and splitter are worth 3 to 4 seconds per lap.

Those of us who actually track it understand how good the Gen V is. It is a dream on the road course.

 

[ViperSmith]

Agreed, and it took that track record on inferior Corsa tires, no where near the performance of Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. I have been tracking my Gen V with Corsas, they are crappy tires. They chunk, they get the "groove of doom," and their tread block pattern is that of a rain-worthy street tire, not a true R compound. After 3-1/2 track days I've worn them down to the point where I can replace them with Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. Ralph says MPSCs are good for 2-second faster lap times than the Corsas. I believe it, and I've talked with several experienced track rats that have tracked a Gen V and had poor impressions of the Corsas as well. Put some MPSCs or Trofeo Rs on a Gen V and it will kick some butt even better than it does already.

Something else to ponder- The difference in lap times between the Gen V GTS and the TA was only 0.61 seconds. Add a real wing and splitter and some canards even to an otherwise stock GTS or TA and watch the lap times drop another few seconds. At the tracks I run at, a good wing and splitter are worth 3 to 4 seconds per lap.

Those of us who actually track it understand how good the Gen V is. It is a dream on the road course.

Boggles my mind why everyone seems to gloss over what the TA did.

It took Chevy 5 years to best the ACR with the ZR1 and the TA did it in a preproduction model (and bested the ACR).

Better tires, the TA will be a monster. The ACR will just humiliate everything.

 

[bluestreak]

Fact, Laguna Seca, USA... #1 slot, Viper TA 1:33.62 and no wing. Maybe you forgot the additional 40 lb-ft too.
Sure a Gen 5 ACR with wing/active aero and more downforce would be faster yet but it's not currently in production...

You must have missed the part where it was different drivers, different day, different conditions. The times are way to close to draw any conclusions about a ring time or even same day same driver testing, of which the TA has not had yet other than the other variations of the Gen V.

But you'd actually have to track to know that.

Anywho, like I said, we will see soon enough.

 

[Boxer12]

The G5 has been out a year and nobody (besides MotorTrend...gag) is doing anything remarkable, that's probably why it isn't getting its due. Why isn't SRT setting some records with the G5 like they did with the ACR? (Ok, they did at High Plains but there was no stock ACR record there, and what about some historic 'benchmark' tracks like VIR?) For that matter, why haven't any G5 owners posted some laps at Laguna, VIR or RA shod with Michelins (instead of making excuses about the Corsas)? When the ACR came out, many of us were on Hoosiers after a couple weekends.

 

[SnakeEye]

You must have missed the part where it was different drivers, different day, different conditions. The times are way to close to draw any conclusions about a ring time or even same day same driver testing, of which the TA has not had yet other than the other variations of the Gen V. But you'd actually have to track to know that. Anywho, like I said, we will see soon enough.

Smart one... I'll excuse your ignorance this one last time as I was part of the first group of enthusiasts that initially bought in at our local track when it first opened where I tracked my supercharged Gen 3 and NA Gen 4 ... what were you saying?. Listen, like several of us Gen V owners have politely tried to tell you in so many words, 'you're either clueless or in denial'. Know this, despite already holding the Laguna Seca course record had the Gen V Viper GTS or TA been equipped with MPSC's each likely would have run the course a second or so faster per lap. Maybe if you owned a Gen 5 you'd begin to understand and appreciate its capabilities which have so far been demonstrated to best the previous Gen's as one might expect. Why is that a problem for you to understand... never mind.

 

[bluestreak]

The G5 has been out a year and nobody (besides MotorTrend...gag) is doing anything remarkable, that's probably why it isn't getting its due. Why isn't SRT setting some records with the G5 like they did with the ACR? (Ok, they did at High Plains but there was no stock ACR record there, and what about some historic 'benchmark' tracks like VIR?) For that matter, why haven't any G5 owners posted some laps at Laguna, VIR or RA shod with Michelins (instead of making excuses about the Corsas)? When the ACR came out, many of us (me included) burned up our PSC's (no excuses, they just didn't last) in a weekend and were on Hoosiers soon enough.

Give it some time bro, the car just came out. The factory ACR records weren't set until 2010-2011 and most of which with an updated version of the ACR when the Gen IV ACR had been out since 2008. ZERO lap records were set by SRT with a non ACR. Also I think most of the records were set with the updated 2010 ACR with better gear ratios and more compliant suspension. There are some guys who have tracked, but more than likely the ******** Viper track guys are already taken, and aren't going to settle for a non ACR if there is chance the ACR might be produced.

The Gen V is better. But it's not better enough to beat the Gen IV ACR on a circuit with a non ACR on a lesser tire. Not IMO.

Smart one... I'll excuse your ignorance this one last time as I was part of the first group of enthusiasts that initially bought in at our local track when it first opened where I tracked my supercharged Gen 3 and NA Gen 4 ... what were you saying?. Listen, like several of us Gen V owners have politely tried to tell you in so many words, 'you're either clueless or in denial'. Know this, despite already holding the Laguna Seca course record had the Gen V Viper GTS or TA been equipped with MPSC's each likely would have run the course a second or so faster per lap. Maybe if you owned a Gen 5 you'd begin to understand and appreciate it's capabilities which have so far been demonstrated to best the previous Gen's as one might expect.

Whoah, don't try to go changing things on us, you said they'd be quicker on the Corsas, now stick to your point so when you have to eat your words you can eat all of them.

What is a Gen V owner supposed to tell me? Every time Boxer asks for lap times from you guys, all we hear is crickets. So we are supposed to believe that the car is super and no one has any imperical data to back it up? Sorry dude, but at the track, that doesn't fly. Let's hear some LAP TIMES.......

I'd gladly get in a Gen V and drive it faster than most of you, as from what I've seen most Viper owners (save a few) are petrified of the car to begin with, and it's the norm for Viper to hold up cars with half the hp. So you can leave the bravado at home.



So anyways, back to the facts. The Gen V GTS and SRT have been MUCH slower in regular 3rd party testing, when the car has been driven like the rest of the cars on the track. So like I said, the ACR has PROVEN it's merit time and time again. The Gen V hasn't proven anything yet. We will see what happens when the same driver tests the cars on the same day, of which the Gen V seems to have gotten beat several times, if your memory serves you correctly.

Exactly how many times has the ACR gotten beat same day, same track, same driver?

My estimates say the ACR has a much better "track" record.

 

[PDCjonny]

Well lookie there Nissan GTR Nismo ran a 7:08 at the 'Ring.

 

[ViperSmith]

Well lookie there Nissan GTR Nismo ran a 7:08 at the 'Ring.

Was the driver awake or napping?

I kid, kudos to Nissan.

 

[Bobpantax]

The time is impressive but the car is fugly. It is also going to be about $200,000.

 

[bluestreak]

It's a lot easier to just buy a GT-R, add a wing, front splitter and ohlins and tune yourself. Probably spend 15-20k tops. Whose gonna buy one and really push it with the astronomical upkeep on a GT-R if you track it + the already really high msrp? Not many at all.

Meanwhile, if SRT had more than a half a day to set a lap time, and work on setup, you know like having a shop at the ring and testing for months, I think they would have gotten a better time anyways.

I'm interested to see how this Nismo stacks up in independent testing.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Well lookie there Nissan GTR Nismo ran a 7:08 at the 'Ring.

Very cool. I knew they would do it. Fastest true production non-hyper car around the Ring so far and finally someone took down the legend. The ball is in SRT's court now. Definitely a beatable number for an upcoming ACR imho.

 

[PDCjonny]

It's a lot easier to just buy a GT-R, add a wing, front splitter and ohlins and tune yourself. Probably spend 15-20k tops. Whose gonna buy one and really push it with the astronomical upkeep on a GT-R if you track it + the already really high msrp? Not many at all.

Meanwhile, if SRT had more than a half a day to set a lap time, and work on setup, you know like having a shop at the ring and testing for months, I think they would have gotten a better time anyways.

I'm interested to see how this Nismo stacks up in independent testing.

Probably considerably more to it than slapping on some aero and a tune. it's lighter, not heavier. Suspension changed, probably tranny as well.
GT-R guys are saying 140-160K so not sure where these other prices came from.
Don't forget, they have a global marketplace unlike the Viper. They'll sell them.