GEN V Purchase info?

[Steve-Indy]

THANKS, snakebitdave...I really did not recall those details. I can confirm that a dealer I visited wanted $120,000.00 for his GT-2. I passed, though I have always like the looks of that Viper!!

 

[klamathpro]

I got my name on the list for the GEN-V at one of the top three dealers last week. I spoke with the owner and he said it will be open to current Viper owners that are VCA members. He said you don't have to be an original owner, just own one.

On a side note, the Gen V needs to blow me away in both looks and performance before I put my cash down. I have a strict requirement, and it better be at least 750HP. 800HP would be the decision maker for me. If it's less than 750HP, I'll just walk because the new GT500's with a pulley will be able to do that. Otherwise, I'd rather get someone's 08' ACR they dumped and do the Mopar upgrades and get it close to 700HP, all for under $75K. There are already low mileage ACRs for less than $70K out there. Ralph keeps focusing on fit and finish, but I could care less as long as they put in the 8.7 liter with 800HP. Their new comp crate 8.4 does 800HP with 696 lb-ft, so this should be doable while still meeting EPA standards. This car needs to destroy anything GM or Ford tries to put out there because GM will just come back with a retuned 750 ZR-1. It also need to put the 700HP Aventador to shame. At 800HP nothing under $1M will touch it. Show them there's no replacement for displacement!

 

[JonB]

Thanks Steve! When the allocation was conceived, I do remember that "Top 50" dealers was mentioned.... My memory cells ASSumed that same list as I have netted 50 dealers. I never counted them! Top 63 it is. I do remember Dodge had some demarcation line [of 25+ Vipers sold or some such #] to be included. And many of those 63 dealers ordered ZERO GT-2s! This enabled top sellers to order more than one.... If I recall correctly, Fitzgerald was able to order 3 cars.....

Jim Julow was INDEED "Da Man" as to club member loyalty. He championed the GTS Vouchers, the in-depth Owner survey after VOI-4....COOL program.....and the VGX-SRT Vouchers.

JonB ~~~:<~

 

[shooter_t1]

I got my name on the list for the GEN-V at one of the top three dealers last week. I spoke with the owner and he said it will be open to current Viper owners that are VCA members. He said you don't have to be an original owner, just own one.

On a side note, the Gen V needs to blow me away in both looks and performance before I put my cash down. I have a strict requirement, and it better be at least 750HP. 800HP would be the decision maker for me. If it's less than 750HP, I'll just walk because the new GT500's with a pulley will be able to do that. Otherwise, I'd rather get someone's 08' ACR they dumped and do the Mopar upgrades and get it close to 700HP, all for under $75K. There are already low mileage ACRs for less than $70K out there. Ralph keeps focusing on fit and finish, but I could care less as long as they put in the 8.7 liter with 800HP. Their new comp crate 8.4 does 800HP with 696 lb-ft, so this should be doable while still meeting EPA standards. This car needs to destroy anything GM or Ford tries to put out there because GM will just come back with a retuned 750 ZR-1. It also need to put the 700HP Aventador to shame. At 800HP nothing under $1M will touch it. Show them there's no replacement for displacement!

That makes zero sense. Unless you just want a dyno champion, who cares what HP the Shelby has. It's not even in the same league as a Gen 4, never mind whatever the Gen V will have. I know 2, 725 HP Super Snakes here in Houston. Neither one will race me. Now, I can understand your fears with your current Viper, as it's only 400 hp, and the new Mustang 5.0 is quicker to 160. So, it looks like you'll walk (your words), as I seriously doubt the new car will have more then 700 hp.

 

[klamathpro]

That makes zero sense. Unless you just want a dyno champion, who cares what HP the Shelby has. It's not even in the same league as a Gen 4, never mind whatever the Gen V will have. I know 2, 725 HP Super Snakes here in Houston. Neither one will race me. Now, I can understand your fears with your current Viper, as it's only 400 hp, and the new Mustang 5.0 is quicker to 160. So, it looks like you'll walk (your words), as I seriously doubt the new car will have more then 700 hp.

The next Shelby will be a 200MPH car with no mods and will have a suspension that will supposedly make the car as quick as Z06 on the track by Ford's claims. Now currently no Viper is 200MPH stock (197 according to Dodge). The new GT 500 isn't in the same league, but it's getting close - at half the price. We are in the last muscle car era where Pony cars are pushing numbers that can beat Gen 3's at a fraction of the cost. I'm saying, to stay competitive, SRT needs to up the ante. If the new car has only 700HP, GM will retune the engine for the next ZR1 to beat that. But if SRT makes the output so ridiculous, like they just did on the Gen IV crate engine, then the competition won't even try. GM can't put out a reliable LS engine past 750HP, or else the SLP ZL1 would have done that.
This is not about being a dyno queen, it's about what the Viper is supposed to be, the king of the road. If you're stock, those Supersnakes will smoke you or come close, they do 0 -60 in 3.5 sec and 1/4 mile in 10.87 sec.
I'm on the same side as you, I just want to see the Viper dominate everything. Dodge has a HUGE 8.7 liter engine... I want them to use it to the full. The competition will always have all the excuses, but there should be no excuses for the Viper.

P.S. My 94' is pushing 575HP and does 11's, so my fears have nothing to do with my current Viper, it's already pushing past my expectations for this car. I've always been enamored by the Viper since it first came out because it was the king of the road and looked great doing it.

 

[shooter_t1]

The next Shelby will be a 200MPH car with no mods and will have a suspension that will supposedly make the car as quick as Z06 on the track by Ford's claims. Now currently no Viper is 200MPH stock (197 according to Dodge). The new GT 500 isn't in the same league, but it's getting close - at half the price. We are in the last muscle car era where Pony cars are pushing numbers that can beat Gen 3's at a fraction of the cost. I'm saying, to stay competitive, SRT needs to up the ante. If the new car has only 700HP, GM will retune the engine for the next ZR1 to beat that. But if SRT makes the output so ridiculous, like they just did on the Gen IV crate engine, then the competition won't even try. GM can't put out a reliable LS engine past 750HP, or else the SLP ZL1 would have done that.
This is not about being a dyno queen, it's about what the Viper is supposed to be, the king of the road. If you're stock, those Supersnakes will smoke you or come close, they do 0 -60 in 3.5 sec and 1/4 mile in 10.87 sec.
I'm on the same side as you, I just want to see the Viper dominate everything. Dodge has a HUGE 8.7 liter engine... I want them to use it to the full. The competition will always have all the excuses, but there should be no excuses for the Viper.

P.S. My 94' is pushing 575HP and does 11's, so my fears have nothing to do with my current Viper, it's already pushing past my expectations for this car. I've always been enamored by the Viper since it first came out because it was the king of the road and looked great doing it.

Just FYI Dodge press release shows 202 mph for the Gen 4 coupe. As far as the rest, I really don't care. Lots of cars have more hp then a Viper. They are still not a Viper and are not as capable on a road course.

 

[swexlin]

It's not always about the numbers. I know my 510 hp Gen 3 is already much more car than I can ever use. I can't even imagine 700. I know that I am not a good enough driver to trust myself with much more.

Even a Gen 1, 400hp, 450 lb ft car will STILL blow away many cars on the road. To compare, my 2007 Superbee SRT8 is 425 hp, 420 lb ft, in car that weighs much more than any Viper, and I can get into trouble pretty quick in that, and Gen 1 would beat it, let alone any more recent Viper. Any Gen Viper is still going to be fast. It's simply a matter of:

Gen 1: Fast
Gen 2: Faster
Gen 3: Light Speed
Gen 4: Warp Speed
Gen 5: ?

 

[swexlin]

"Just FYI Dodge press release shows 202 mph for the Gen 4 coupe. As far as the rest, I really don't care. Lots of cars have more hp then a Viper. They are still not a Viper and are not as capable on a road course."

This is it! The Viper is in a class of it's own, and always has been!

 

[Brian GTS]

While I would like to see a little bump in horsepower, personally, it is not that significant to me. The car scares me as it is with 600hp. I'm mostly looking for an upgrade in the "looks" department to send us back to the "curvy" days of the initial generations.

 

[01sapphirebob]

I'm mostly looking for an upgrade in the "looks" department to send us back to the "curvy" days of the initial generations.

That's where we are heading.

 

[sdaddy]

Hisssstorian Note:

As stated, there have been TWO opportunities when Club Members received a preferential ordering window. One of those gave a 1-week additional headstart to VOI attendees ! And one time, Chrysler Financial gave us a (significant) discounted interest rate.

JonB ~~~:<~

Were the dealers allowed to charge whatever the market would bear to VCA members holding purchase certificates or were these cars sold to VCA members at MSRP?

 

[Next Phase]

While I would like to see a little bump in horsepower, personally, it is not that significant to me. The car scares me as it is with 600hp. I'm mostly looking for an upgrade in the "looks" department to send us back to the "curvy" days of the initial generations.

I'm hoping the Gen V is a world ****** and everyone will want one... so I can get into a Gen IV ACR for cheap... ;-)

 

[snakebitdave]

Jon, help refresh my memory on this. Weren't there three opportunities? The first being the '96 coupe, the second the GT2 and the third certificates for the 03? I distinctly remember the GT2 and the 03 opportunities but am vague on the '96. As I recall everybody who attended VOI-? that year got to order a '96 from a dealer of their choice. I'll have to dig into my files as I'm having a brain freeze on this as well as whether or not the dealer could name their price; they did on the GT2.

Hisssstorian Note:

As stated, there have been TWO opportunities when Club Members received a preferential ordering window. One of those gave a 1-week additional headstart to VOI attendees ! And one time, Chrysler Financial gave us a (significant) discounted interest rate.

JonB ~~~:<~

 

[JonB]

sdaddy / snakebitdave

I think it would not be legal for the Manufacturer to dictate the selling price to the dealers .

The 2 "voucher / certificate programs" for ALL NEW CAR MSO Owners involved the 96 GTS. Club members got an early heads up by mail. Email was NOT as widespread in 95. And if Owners attended VOI-2, you got your voucher 1 week early. Vouchers were RABIDLY devoured. At VOI-2, some attendees sent a proxy-person just to get the early voucher. Those were delayed 1-2 days. 45 were FedExed from VOI-2, for next-day-AM air to HQ. Vouchers were strictly recordered as 1st-received, 1st built....later modified within late 1996 to a more regional zone build. Exception: VCA Regional presidents were built in alphabetical order, except 3 national club officers built 1-2-3. I personally think this was the BEST 'Club Perk' ever given to Regional presidents!

Trivia: Jay Leno failed to return his voucher redemption request! When he finally realized the cars were getting released, they were sold out. He tried to snag the first car but that owner refused to sell, and put Jay in touch with RON SMITH of Viper Marketing. Ron allocated a cancelled voucher to Mr. Leno. Several vouchers were cancelled due to divorce, bankruptcy, health. Dodge kept close control of those to fit special circumstance needs like Jay. One of those was the Team Owner of the 1996 Indy 500 winner, Ron Hemelgarn. Ron badly wanted a car after Dodge GAVE one to the 96 Indy winner, Buddy Lazier! [Colo VCA made him an honorary member.] Dodge released it thru Roanoke Dodge, who made it a Pace Car Replica for Hemelgarn. Dr.FESS: Did you enroll Ron Hemelgarn? I dont remember!

The VGX/03SRT10 certificate in 02 was again for NEW CAR OWNERS, but club members had an exclusive 30-day early opportunity to order before non-member owners. See POST # 7 in this thread for the letter.....thanks Dr Fess.

GT-2 GTS/R was not a preferential program for owners or club members, other than the fact that members received an early announcement mailed from JRT/HQ concerning its existance and availability. All 100 (retail) were built in strict numerical order, and shipped after all were built.

GT-2 was a preferential program initially for 50 Viper Dealers, expanded to 63........many of those bought ZERO cars. Those dealers could sell at whatever they wanted, to whomever they wanted. Need NOT be a club member or an Owner at all. Many were sold at MSRP to the dealers best customers. Some were sold just below MSRP. Some sold above MSRP. I was personally involved in 003, 036, which sold at MSRP. PartsRack later bought 001 when Dan Fitzgerald Dodge was done promoting it. Waay above MSRP. {Dan had also created the 1996 RT CS Editions. Remember?}

The owner-voucher programs were NOT without some controversy, as later related by Jim Julow. Dealers were the most annoyed. I would not be surprised to soon see some details of a Gen 5 plan for loyal owners, and for club members....maybe even a two-element plan to recognize the importance of both to SRT.... The past is prologue: Vouchers, Special Editions, etc. SRT really DO appreciate our loyalty!

JonB ~~~~:<~ Hissstorian wannabee

 

[klamathpro]

Nice writeup Jon.

Anyway, I just got back from the NAIAS show. Shelby was there with their new 800HP 2012 snakes using the current 5.4 engine. The rep there said the 2013 SuperSnake will take the 650HP 5.8 and bump it reliably to 900HP - 1000HP, all for under $95k.
I didn't buy my first Viper just for the power, the looks was half of it. I also own a Viper to show off at both car shows and once in a while at the light or the 1/4 mile track. If I bought a Viper on looks alone, then I would just buy a 99' GTS and be done with it because we all hope the GEN V returns to the curves of the GTS. But that's not the case, which is why I'll either buy an ACR or a GEN V, because I want the Power also. But the competition is now fierce. I live near the D where car cruises and zero to sixty sprints happen at the lights frequently. When these new Shelby's start hitting the streets, I don't want to get smoked in my $100k GEN V by a not so little Pony. If Lambo can push 700HP out of a 6.5 liter, I want to see that massive 8.7 liter pushed even further. I also hope they put a launch control option to handle the power, and that way it's manageable if you want it to be. I just wish SRT would at least put forged internals in the 8.7 so that superchargers and turbos are an option without an overhaul. I know I have a lot of demands, but I don't want to see the Viper get stomped at the light by a cheaper, inferior Pony.

 

[kdaviper]

If a mustang tries to give you trouble, just put a curve or two in the race

 

[Voodoo Rob]

Klamathpro------- The Gen V should not be judged on a HP number alone, its the total car. A $95k mustang is a $25k car with $70k of add ons/ mods. A $100k Viper is just that, a $100k car. So what about the cheaper car having more HP? Less HP hasn't hurt Ferrari, Lambo, and Porsche sales. It is an artform and design challenge to putting all the hp to the ground and the car not falling apart. Its an overall performance package. The mustangs with all the mods fill a certain market need. Solid fun for little money. Again so what on the "other guy has more HP"? We just bought my wife a Porsche Panamera Turbo with air suspension, 500 HP, 12 second quarter miles 0-60 3.8 ,top speed near 190. It is faster on the big end than my 97 GTS so using your concerns put forth I have to kick the Viper out of the garage and throw a for sale sign on it because there is something faster in the area. I maybe misunderstanding the point your trying to make, I'm saying that in refined, dynamic, high performance vehicles more HP is not always the solution.

 

[klamathpro]

But you're comparing a 97' GTS to a 2012 Porsche. I'm comparing 2013 to 2013. I know you don't judge a car on HP alone, but ignoring it is like saying that the whole idea that the Viper has always been the "King of the Road" was nonsense. If the Viper had come out in 92' with a 275HP v8 like the C4, would it still be here today? In 92' the 400HP V10 was King of the Road. In 96' the 450HP GTS was King of the Road. In 2003, the 500HP Viper was King of the Road. In 2008, the 600HP Viper was King of the Road, but GM very closely tied that crown with the ZR1, on the street at least, but the ACR dominated at the track, and that's why I've wanted one since it came out. But in 2013, I don't know if 700HP will be enough to be King of the Road, considered how easily GM and Ford could match or exceed that the next year. Much of what made the Viper so unique was it's crazy, off the charts numbers the engine put out with each generation. I'm not saying that 700HP is not enough to be thrilled at. But we are in a completely different era power-wise, and to regain that spark that drew me to the first Viper 20 years ago, it needs to mercilessly leave everyone in the dust, just like the previous ones did. With Ford and GM already at the heals of 700HP with a tune and pulley, what will prevent them from striking back fast? 800HP will. Because it's unheard of. Difficult to obtain and put it to the ground. But not impossible with an 8.7 Liter V10 with a race winning Chassis. Why was it so easy to bump the 8.4 crate to 800HP? The 8.7 is larger and shouldn't have a hard time matching that and still meet emisions. Nobody has done it in a real production car less than $500K.

From a reliable source, I recently was told the Gen V will be offered with three class options, A, B, and C, with the cheapest option being the base model, and the most expensive option having NAV, cruise control, and other gizmos. Their focus is now to cater to a broader audience, and I'd rather see them accomplish that than to have the Viper disappear forever. But one of the 8.7 liter engineers at Chrysler told me last year that the Gen V will be the easiest to drive Viper ever made. Knowing he couldn't reveal too much, I then asked him what his favorite Viper is, including the Gen V. His answer was, the Gen IV, because it was refined enough but didn't go overboard. He said there are so many government mandated ***** gizmos, that it will never be the same raw feel it once had. Certain things can't be done, and I understand that. But one thing that is in their power is to make it roar so loud (performance wise) you'll still know it's a Viper, because when you drive it, you'll be the King of the Road!

Klamathpro------- The Gen V should not be judged on a HP number alone, its the total car. A $95k mustang is a $25k car with $70k of add ons/ mods. A $100k Viper is just that, a $100k car. So what about the cheaper car having more HP? Less HP hasn't hurt Ferrari, Lambo, and Porsche sales. It is an artform and design challenge to putting all the hp to the ground and the car not falling apart. Its an overall performance package. The mustangs with all the mods fill a certain market need. Solid fun for little money. Again so what on the "other guy has more HP"? We just bought my wife a Porsche Panamera Turbo with air suspension, 500 HP, 12 second quarter miles 0-60 3.8 ,top speed near 190. It is faster on the big end than my 97 GTS so using your concerns put forth I have to kick the Viper out of the garage and throw a for sale sign on it because there is something faster in the area. I maybe misunderstanding the point your trying to make, I'm saying that in refined, dynamic, high performance vehicles more HP is not always the solution.