Get more boost from your Roe Blower!

[Larry Macedo]

Apologies for hijacking your post, DW!

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Kenny, the cards have yet to arrive.

Probably due to the terrorist threats on the airlines today. Hopefully, you'll get them tomorrow. Thanks in advance for your help, Larry.

 

[Joseph Dell]

ou've listened to your tuner up until this point... why don't you try continuing down that path? In fact, did you think that going on-line and b*tching about your tune was going to make Larry want to help you MORE or LESS???!?!?

If you want a consensus, post _exactly_ the symptoms, the VEC2 program, and all the info you have and i'm sure a group of more than 10 or 20 would send you back different programs.

If you want to do what is your path of least resistence and your best bet, GET A FRIKKIN' CARD READER and the software so that Larry can e-mail you the programs <no waiting on mail and no fed-ex charges>!!!

In the time it takes you to post your/ a complaint, you could have been up and running w/ software making changes on your own running around trying to fix things!!! No more sitting and waiting!

I've fixed some people's programs blind before. sometimes we go back and forth a few times. Larry has been very patient with this new set-up... so give HIM the tools to help YOU and get the frikkin' software!!!

I challenge _anyone_ to try to tune a car from 1k+ miles away. You <Kenny> are lucky that he <Larry> didn't say "bring it back". Larry is going out on a limb to help you here... it isn't just air temp, air/fuel, and altitude... there is SOOOO much more to these <and all> cars!

go w/ an AEM and you have that much MORE to modify! Just one more thing to learn!

I'm offering to help you again (as I have before). But no one knows that car better than Larry. So give him the chance to make it right so you can post another "Sir Larry Rules" posting sometime. That's the Kenny we all know and love!

JD

 

[Simms]

[
I'm glad you feel good about the numbers. Whether Kenny "feels good about them" is apparently another story. I personally don't care, although I will have to admit that I was a little underwhelmed by them considering the amount of time, parts, and money that went into the build. But that's neither here nor there. In addition, I guess I'm confused as to why you believe there is still "more in it". Does that mean that you knew it left your shop without being tuned to it's full potential? That you knew you were leaving power/drivability on the table? Or do you mean that it was perfect when it left, but something has changed between Florida and Kenny's house during transport?

When my car leaves a shop, I expect it to be running to its full potential (barring some upgrade which I opted not to make). I don't want the car to come home with *** hp, but a promise that it "has more in it". If it has more in it, then I bloody well want it out of it. But maybe that's just me.

I'm certainly no tuner, and can't speak for Larry, but your statement baffles me. Now I agree and understand some of it, except for the the "more left in it" questions. I'm going to go on basic mechanic knowledge/judgement here and say that the car was tuned very conservatively on timing with a fat/safe air fuel (12:1, not 14;1 etc). Why? Because it was a completely new setup, with probably the bare minimum break in miles. Kenny was really looking forward to running the car at Columbus, so I'm guessing the conservative tune was done for the reasons above. Hense, the statement "a lot more left in her."

Out of curiousity, what were the numbers by the "other" car tuned with the stryker heads? The numbers I heard (from someone directly associated with the car) were quit lower than Kenny's.

But as you stated, and I agree, its not my issue and I hope it gets resolved. I just can't figure out why you have such a hard-on for Larry.

Kudos to JD for saying how it really is.

Kenny, out of curiousity, what rpm, gear, and mph do you drive around at?

 

[SUN RA KAT]

" Because it was a completely new setup, with probably the bare minimum break in miles."

I don't believe there were break in miles put on it before it was delivered to me as completed. I did the 500 mile break in of the engine after it was delivered to me July 1, 2006. Larry told me to do the 500 mile break in at that point. Larry promised he would be back in Ohio in about 2-3 weeks to do dyno tuning of at least one other Viper and mine. Larry was planning on bringing a knock sensor that he had just gotten. However, he was unable to come back to Ohio due to family matters I found out about 2 weeks later. I was told to run the car in Columbus, which I did, though 2 blown fuses on 2 straight runs pretty much put a damper on things. Except for the blown fuses, my car ran great at full throttle. The track condition really sucked, but that has no bearing here.

"Kenny, out of curiousity, what rpm, gear, and mph do you drive around at?"

I usually drive around 2,000 RPM in whatever gear keeps me close to not being too much over the speed limit. I do run it up giving demo rides to 5,000 RPM if the road and traffic conditions are safe. On the highway driving long distances I usually have it in 6th gear and around 1,500 RPM (70-75 MPH). On the track Saturday I got higher MPH (126 vs 123) by shifting around 4,500 RPM vs 5,200 RPM, but was quicker by hundreths 11.9 vs. 11.9 ET by shifting higher.

The big problem is the surging in low gears at low constant RPM, the other problems are starting it and keeping it running and having to restart it to avoid being caught in a loop and high idle hang up and low idle RPM not compatible with the big cam and throwing codes. I was promised that problems like these would not be present when I got my car back. I got my car back with the problems just mentioned.

All I want is what was promised me last year and this year - a reliable daily driver street car with more power. It may not yet have all the power that can safely be had - that doesn't bother me nearly as much as the basic driveability problems making my Viper dangerous to drive on the street.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: Kenny vs. Larry - LOL!

Dude -

Please spare us all the "safety" drama! It hurts me. It reminds me when my wife pulls the "that is dangerous to our daughter" crap!

If you wanted a car that was completely safe and a "daily driver" you'd own a Volvo. I don't want to start the "daily driver" argument, but does a roll bar and water/**** with $6k stryker heads (that you didn't need and that have never been tested) still count as a "reliable daily driver"???

The more you modify a car, the more care and feeding it takes... and the more paying attention to the details it takes.

Personally, i don't by the break-in miles crap b/c rings seat pretty darn fast. And, this is a race motor you are talking about! you think 100,000 miles are in your future? put down the crack pipe!

I don't mean to come down so ******* you (especially where I'm coming out of posting retirement) but c'mon... you are asking for something unreasonable: ZERO maintenance AND perfection on a never-before-tested combination.

It also pains me to see this public forum be the flogging place for tuners...

This "deal" went down either 1 of 2 ways. Either you said "I want the baddest-ass ROE car around" or Larry said "I know what you need, trust me". I suspect the first. You wanted to be the baddest-ass ROE car for whatever reason... and it didn't work. We all make mistakes. So **** it up and move on. But don't blame Larry. Sure, you want what you were "promised", but being that there are 2 sides to every story, i really don't think Larry said before you started "I'm taking 100% responsiblity for this combination I've never done!". If he did, then feel free to crucify him here. But he's a pretty reputable [and conservative] guy so I don't know if I buy that.

Oh yeah... one more thing: I call BULLSH*T on the heads being too much for a ROE car. Pleanty of naturally aspirated cars run the Stryker heads (even the RACE version) and they run fine. What makes your so special?

let us know when it's fixed and try not to burn too many bridges in the process!

JD

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Re: Kenny vs. Larry - LOL!

"Please spare us all the "safety" drama!"

When I'm letting out the clutch going from 1st to 2nd and the surge came on and my car suddenly leaps forward half a car length almost hitting the car in front of me - that's the safety issue I'm talking about. I happened earlier this week.

"It also pains me to see this public forum be the flogging place for tuners..."

I was asked a question and I answered it (almost halfway down page 2). I am given a car that did not meet any of the tuner's promises and I am told by the tuner that the only way my car will run right is to give him around another $4,500. I was asking if there is a way to get it to run right with what I had and not have to spend more money.

"Oh yeah... one more thing: I call BULLSH*T on the heads being too much for a ROE car. Pleanty of naturally aspirated cars run the Stryker heads (even the RACE version) and they run fine. What makes your so special?"

Larry himself told me the Striker heads were too much for the Roe after he put them on. He got the David Weaver crank pulley to add more boost. Larry did everything he could to have the right boost. In the end he told me that he could get a 12 pound boost, but then the heads flowed so much the boost fell off to 10 or 8 pounds. That I accept and it's not a problem. Sir Larry did the best he could at getting whatever power there was to be had from the combination and he did a good job, too. So, are you telling me that Larry is telling me BULLSH*T when he told me the Striker heads were too much for the Roe?

Larry, myself, and all the people who have driven with me wonder why car is so special and hard to tune so it does not have surging and all the other major issues it does have. Many people here have given me their opinions on what it will take to fix the problem and I thank everyone for that. I don't want to burn bridges - I want the car I paid close to $28,000 for modifications and tuning to run right. That is all.

 

[1TONY1]

the v-notch issue is when the car misfires at high RPM (usally 4800rpm, 5200rpm, or 5600rpm) for some unknown reason. the reason ROE doesn't really know. but it isn't the unit... it is the design. it doesn't happen with ALL VEC2's, but it happens w/ many. the "fix" [which is based on the theoretical cause] is to put a resistor in-line on the IAT sensor. But there are some cars that this NEVER cured the problem for. I'm surprised that there isn't a pending lawsuit b/c of it as people for a looooooooooooooong time were told "this isn't a problem w/ the design" when it fact it is.

do a SEARCH on vec2 v-notch and you'll see some info on it.

Side note on the V-notch.....

I think it is a rare occurance with the s/c*. More so with an N/A car (so I hear)

* Has it ever even happened with the S/C ?

 

[KenH]

Side note on the V-notch.....

I think it is a rare occurance with the s/c*. More so with an N/A car (so I hear)

* Has it ever even happened with the S/C ?

My car had it when I installed the VEC2 on my NA motor and I never got it resolved. It went away after I installed the Roe SC.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: V-notch

Personally, i experienced the V-notch on my car when my car was SC (paxton), NA (no SC) and the 1st iteration w/ a TT. Worse, I swapped out units and it still happened! Downgraded firmwares and upgraded firmwares... it still happened! The V-notch moved up the RPM band when I put the resistor in the IAT. I think Joe Donovan was actually the first to figure this out, actually.

anyway, the V-notch / misfire issue went away when the direct change was back to stock computer OR AEM.

I have done my research... and that pesky VEC2 was the culprit each time.

JD

 

[KenH]

Re: V-notch

I ran a number of experiments when my car was NA in conjunction with Roe such as using the VEC2 on the injector side, but stock PCM on the timing side and vice versa, but could never track down the culprit. I did not try messing with the IAT input at that time.

The thing that mystified me is that on my setup, if I put all the VEC2 settings to stock so that the VEC2 was passing through all the signals, but not modifying them, the problem went away, but as soon as I touched any setting to adjust timing (if I remember correctly), the problem would return.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

WOW! I had one chance to update Kenny's cards and here we are...

Larry I don't think this car should have left your shop. I'm not trying to bust your balls, we've always been friends but it sounds like this car was really not ready to be delivered. Everyone who knows you, likes you and thinks your a decent person. Kenny paid a lot of money for a product that obviously has issues and I know it's frustrating for him to not be able to drive it reliably. Was this package something you recommended to him? Was Kenny promised 800 rwhp? Was he promised good daily driveability? Did he get either one? That's the real problems.
It wouldn't matter to me who the TUNER is, if you accept money for a job then the customer should recieve a product that backs up the promises that were made. I'm not just talking about Macedo I'm talking about all tuners. If it were the other way around and a tuner built a fantastic car that met all promises and then the customer decided not to give but a portion of the money how would the tuner feel????? Well that's how a customer feels when they don't get what was promised.

Kenny, I think you should give Larry the option of picking up your car taking it back and getting it right. I'm sure that Larry wants it right and you happy with the car. That's what should be expected. If it doesn't happen then send it to Joe Donovan and pass the bill on when it's fixed.

 

[Shelby3]

WOW! I had one chance to update Kenny's cards and here we are...

Larry I don't think this car should have left your shop. I'm not trying to bust your balls, we've always been friends but it sounds like this car was really not ready to be delivered. Everyone who knows you, likes you and thinks your a decent person. Kenny paid a lot of money for a product that obviously has issues and I know it's frustrating for him to not be able to drive it reliably. Was this package something you recommended to him? Was Kenny promised 800 rwhp? Was he promised good daily driveability? Did he get either one? That's the real problems.
It wouldn't matter to me who the TUNER is, if you accept money for a job then the customer should recieve a product that backs up the promises that were made. I'm not just talking about Macedo I'm talking about all tuners. If it were the other way around and a tuner built a fantastic car that met all promises and then the customer decided not to give but a portion of the money how would the tuner feel????? Well that's how a customer feels when they don't get what was promised.

Kenny, I think you should give Larry the option of picking up your car taking it back and getting it right. I'm sure that Larry wants it right and you happy with the car. That's what should be expected. If it doesn't happen then send it to Joe Donovan and pass the bill on when it's fixed.

Brian, while we are on the topic, how is that car of yours running? I saw where you sold your drag radial tire/wheel combo? Did it ever get tuned for street use?

 

[Larry Macedo]

I understand and appreciate what you are saying, Brian!

 

[SUN RA KAT]

WOW! I had one chance to update Kenny's cards and here we are...

Larry I don't think this car should have left your shop. I'm not trying to bust your balls, we've always been friends but it sounds like this car was really not ready to be delivered. Everyone who knows you, likes you and thinks your a decent person. Kenny paid a lot of money for a product that obviously has issues and I know it's frustrating for him to not be able to drive it reliably. Was this package something you recommended to him? Was Kenny promised 800 rwhp? Was he promised good daily driveability? Did he get either one? That's the real problems.
It wouldn't matter to me who the TUNER is, if you accept money for a job then the customer should recieve a product that backs up the promises that were made. I'm not just talking about Macedo I'm talking about all tuners. If it were the other way around and a tuner built a fantastic car that met all promises and then the customer decided not to give but a portion of the money how would the tuner feel????? Well that's how a customer feels when they don't get what was promised.

Kenny, I think you should give Larry the option of picking up your car taking it back and getting it right. I'm sure that Larry wants it right and you happy with the car. That's what should be expected. If it doesn't happen then send it to Joe Donovan and pass the bill on when it's fixed.

As of yesterday, Sir Larry had not recieved the VEC2 cards I had sent him last week. Hopefully they will arrive today.

Another Viper owner in Ohio will be going down sometime to pick up his Viper from Macedo Motorsports and he agreed to tow my Viper back to Larry on his trailer.

I literally have not had a good night's sleep since getting my Viper back. I'm a nervous wreck after the 1st run down the dragstrip of the year (August 5, 2006)and hearing a loud "BOOM!" and have my engine shut off and it would not restart. That ended up being a blown fuse, the 1st of two blown fuses that day.

People, both strangers and neighbors, stop and ask me if my car is OK. It barely runs at idle, and has even died once in traffic idling at a red light. I asked Sir Larry at what RPM it should idle at he said 1,000 RPM. It idles at 700 RPM by the Viper's tach. He told me he is saving me money by not flashing the PCM since I was going to upgrade to the AEM. I already had to buy the older PCM at his urging. We didn't seriously talk about going to the AEM until around 2nd week in July and I told him it was never put in the original estimate and I can't afford it due to having to buy other extra parts - David Weaver Pulley, etc. and safety equipment due to my car going into at least the high 700's. The next week I found out he wouldn't be able to make it back to Ohio before the ViperNationals to retune my car and another car due to a family matter. However, I now am trying to get me car tuned from 1,000 miles away and the first time Larry retuned them based on my reports happened two weeks after he should have recieved my VEC2 cards because they were lost on his desk.

So, I get my car back on July 1st with not even the idle set right because of something discussed two weeks later that I can't afford and then Larry can't come back as promised to retune my car because of a family matter and then my VEC2 cards get lost for two weeks on his desk. Due to lack of sleep, I feel paranoid about all of this. I know Larry is trying to get my car to run right - the first try at retuning when he did find the VEC2 cards improved the aceleration's peppiness and the water/methanol is starting to be used the way it's supposed to (used less than a quart of it in the 500 mile break in I did here in Ohio since Larry didn't get it done in Florida, but he promised good gains in power once the engine is broken in). I hope with the data I've been providing Larry that he can get an even better tune done.

I'm sorry I feel so upset and paranoid about this, but after spending $28,000 when I borrowed only $27,000 and have missed quite a few payments to my ex-wife for my share of our daughter's college education and still not having my Viper run anywhere close to as promised (surging, idle hang up, idle set too low, codes thrown, fuses blown, cost overruns, loss of sleep, etc.), I feel more like a Cash Cow that has dried up and less like a customer. It's getting close to September and that means I'll have to miss work soon to do anything about getting my Viper back to a daily driver ultra reliable street car with more power that can sometimes go racing safely.

I professor I had back in my school days told the class, "Give me your results, not your excuses."

I'm looking for results and not anymore excuses on this project. I expect Sir Larry to nothing less than keep his good reputation by finishing this project so that his promises to me about daily driver street driveability, not throwing codes, and power are met. He already did do some special work on the supercharger so that his claims of at least the high 700's probably can be met once the 500 mile break in period had been completed (it has).

Kenny, I think you should give Larry the option of picking up your car taking it back and getting it right. I'm sure that Larry wants it right and you happy with the car. That's what should be expected. If it doesn't happen then send it to Joe Donovan and pass the bill on when it's fixed.

I'd really like some guarranty as to when I will be getting it back and that it will run right - NO EXCUSES! - and also not be treated as a Cash Cow anymore. At this point I think I would like to try Joe Donovan if Larry thinks he can't tune it with the VEC2. The AEM was never brought up on any of the estimates, so I never planned on spending another $4,000+. If it had been on the estimates, I would have probably scaled back the project to just tuning what I had already with the VEC2.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Viper vs. Daughter's education. Borrowed 27k. Late on ex-payments. You've got bigger issues than your car not running.

2 weeks on a VEC2 card to get somewhere? I call [******] on that. if you'd get the software you wouldn't need to wait at all. you'd have ZERO wait time.

you are sooooooooooooo close to being done and now you are going to let it go to *** over a couple of K. we've all been there... but YOU have to take some responsibility instead of sounding like the you are the victim all the time.

have you ordered the VEC2 software yet? Have you _tried_ to tune it on your end?

sympathy = minimal from this end until you take some responsiblity and stop being a victim!!!

JD

 

[plumcrazy]

this is turning ugly. i hope it all works out for ya kenny and larry too.

Larry, can you get this tned right for him and get the numbers promised ? or can you get it tuned and driveable and be short a few rwhp ?

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Viper vs. Daughter's education. Borrowed 27k. Late on ex-payments. You've got bigger issues than your car not running.

2 weeks on a VEC2 card to get somewhere? I call [******] on that. if you'd get the software you wouldn't need to wait at all. you'd have ZERO wait time.

you are sooooooooooooo close to being done and now you are going to let it go to *** over a couple of K. we've all been there... but YOU have to take some responsibility instead of sounding like the you are the victim all the time.

have you ordered the VEC2 software yet? Have you _tried_ to tune it on your end?

sympathy = minimal from this end until you take some responsiblity and stop being a victim!!!

JD

Yes, Joe, I've got bigger issues than my car not running - I'm retired and work a low paying Substitute School Teacher job during the school year - I'm not a Cash Cow.

I never was told I need to buy the VEC2 software by Sir Larry - I was told by him my car would not be released to me until it ran right. It was released to me not running right. I am told that the idle part of it not running right, after I was told I had to buy a $400+ PCM so the VEC2 would run right, but I am also told my idle was not adjusted right by Sir Larry since "I may be getting the AEM". I would also have to buy a laptop computer plus the software when it's possible the cam Sir Larry used is too big for even Joe Donovan to tune using the VEC2. If you really want to help instead of calling [******], maybe you can loan me a laptop and VEC2 software so I can see if I will be needing my own in the future.

If the cam is too big, or the heads too big, etc. and it can't be tuned with the VEC2, then the extra K I've spent for the VEC2 software and laptop makes the AEM and installation and tuning (over four extra K's that I don't have) that much further than beyond my means.

I'm not looking for your sympathy - I'm looking for my car to run right for the price I was quoted and promises that it would run right upon delivery, and if not upon delivery definately running right before a month and a half have passed.

Problems happen all the time - the good tuner gets his reputation by building cars without problems, the GREAT tuner gets his reputation by building cars that over come their problems and run great. I've always thought Larry Macedo was one of the great tuners and I want to see it happen with my car.

 

[Joseph Dell]

PM sent. let's see if I can help you off-line a bit...

JD

 

[BlueGTS]

Kenny, buy a used computer off of eBay for a few hundred bucks. My friend bought one for $150 and he uses it just for tuning his car. Granted it is not the fastest computer but it does not have to be for logging and tuning. It is very difficult to own a fuel management system that allows logging and computer control and not take advantage of it. If you have the computer you can download the programs that Larry would email you and literally test dozens of tunes in a single day. Uploading a new program to the VEC2 is as easy as turning the car to ACC on, opening the software and clicking the upload button.

With that said, I think you were expecting a turn key 800rwhp car. However, cars with that much power take some monitoring and tuning. Even if your car was tuned perfectly you should want to log runs in different conditions just to make sure everything is working properly.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

PM sent. let's see if I can help you off-line a bit...

JD

Thank you very much, Joe.

PM sent back.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

With that said, I think you were expecting a turn key 800rwhp car. However, cars with that much power take some monitoring and tuning. Even if your car was tuned perfectly you should want to log runs in different conditions just to make sure everything is working properly.

I was expecting a turnkey "at least the high 700's" car. I just wish I had been told something other than what I was told, so I'd have a more realistic idea on what to expect. I had taken what Larry promised as being that was the way it would be.

At this point it needs to be established if the VEC2 can be tuned or the AEM is the only way to go. I know it's the best way to go, but right now I don't have the extra income to purchase it and pay cash for at least 5 months. Going into debt over $27K for this project has put a big hurt on me financially.

Changing the heads or the cam sounds about as expensive as just going to the AEM and I think the engine runs good for any application except on the street at low RPM. But that's where I drive it the most and I know it's just a tuning issue.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

WOW! I had one chance to update Kenny's cards and here we are...

Larry I don't think this car should have left your shop. I'm not trying to bust your balls, we've always been friends but it sounds like this car was really not ready to be delivered. Everyone who knows you, likes you and thinks your a decent person. Kenny paid a lot of money for a product that obviously has issues and I know it's frustrating for him to not be able to drive it reliably. Was this package something you recommended to him? Was Kenny promised 800 rwhp? Was he promised good daily driveability? Did he get either one? That's the real problems.
It wouldn't matter to me who the TUNER is, if you accept money for a job then the customer should recieve a product that backs up the promises that were made. I'm not just talking about Macedo I'm talking about all tuners. If it were the other way around and a tuner built a fantastic car that met all promises and then the customer decided not to give but a portion of the money how would the tuner feel????? Well that's how a customer feels when they don't get what was promised.

Kenny, I think you should give Larry the option of picking up your car taking it back and getting it right. I'm sure that Larry wants it right and you happy with the car. That's what should be expected. If it doesn't happen then send it to Joe Donovan and pass the bill on when it's fixed.

Brian, while we are on the topic, how is that car of yours running? I saw where you sold your drag radial tire/wheel combo? Did it ever get tuned for street use?

Don't get me started!!!! Let's just say I'm having a lot of the same problems as Kenny. Kevin is aware and says when he gets back from the honeymoon he will fix. More time will tell. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as for now.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Viper vs. Daughter's education. Borrowed 27k. Late on ex-payments. You've got bigger issues than your car not running.

2 weeks on a VEC2 card to get somewhere? I call [******] on that. if you'd get the software you wouldn't need to wait at all. you'd have ZERO wait time.

you are sooooooooooooo close to being done and now you are going to let it go to *** over a couple of K. we've all been there... but YOU have to take some responsibility instead of sounding like the you are the victim all the time.

have you ordered the VEC2 software yet? Have you _tried_ to tune it on your end?

sympathy = minimal from this end until you take some responsiblity and stop being a victim!!!

JD

Joe I disagree with you on this. Kenny's responsibility was to pay Macedo which I assume he did. That's all he should be responsibile for. Kenny is not the Tuner Larry is that's why he's paying him to do the job. No where have I read that Larry told him I can do blah blah but when I'm done your car won't run and you will need to buy software and tune it yourself. That's what the tuner is being paid to do period. If the car doesn't get fixed then Kenny would be a victim of some unfair business dealings. I don't think it's fair to pound on Kenny because he says he don't have the money to buy additional parts or how he chooses to spend his money. The point is here that he's paid for a product and service that is not operating properly and it needs fixed asap!!!

 

[Joseph Dell]

I'm only a little harsh in public. I'm much kinder in PM's.

I agree with you... a tuner should deliver product as promised.

JD

 

[Simms]

Kenny, did you request your car be returned to you without the 500 break-in miles? I'm just not sure why you didn't leave it down there until Larry could get the miles on it and tune for real drivablility, not on the dyno. Did the car have a valid tag on it? I just can't see how you can expect real word drivability when the car wasn't driven in the real world.

I understand your frustration, but you really can't expect to get all the bugs worked out over the phone. As JD said before, its an unproven build. If Larry did not get to drive the car for the 500 miles etc, no telling what can happen during the breakin miles. Anything change.

I can't see all the discussion about this when the car hasn't been returned to Larry so he can spend some time with the car ON THE STREET tuning it. You got the break-in miles on the car now, let the man finish his job now. Thankfully someone can take it back down for you.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Kenny, did you request your car be returned to you without the 500 break-in miles? I'm just not sure why you didn't leave it down there until Larry could get the miles on it and tune for real drivablility, not on the dyno. Did the car have a valid tag on it? I just can't see how you can expect real word drivability when the car wasn't driven in the real world.

I understand your frustration, but you really can't expect to get all the bugs worked out over the phone. As JD said before, its an unproven build. If Larry did not get to drive the car for the 500 miles etc, no telling what can happen during the breakin miles. Anything change.

I can't see all the discussion about this when the car hasn't been returned to Larry so he can spend some time with the car ON THE STREET tuning it. You got the break-in miles on the car now, let the man finish his job now. Thankfully someone can take it back down for you.

Simms quit sucking Macedo's ***!!! You don't understand how Kenny feels, it was not your 28K and not your car!! If the build was unproven why was it recommended and if it was not recommended wouldn't the tuner have some responsibility to at least warn the customer that this may not work???

And what is this crap about let him finish his work???? If it was not finished then why did it leave the shop in the first place. IT'S the tuner's responsibility to make sure it's finished before it leaves.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Kenny, did you request your car be returned to you without the 500 break-in miles? I'm just not sure why you didn't leave it down there until Larry could get the miles on it and tune for real drivablility, not on the dyno. Did the car have a valid tag on it? I just can't see how you can expect real word drivability when the car wasn't driven in the real world.

I was told by Sir Larry that my car was tuned and ready to be picked up. Shortly afterwards, Larry offered to tow my car back to Ohio near where I live. Only after I picked it up did I find out that it had not been given the 500 mile break in that I had already paid for in Larry's Invoice. Larry said he had absolutely no drivability issues with it other than it sometimes got stuck in a loop and had to be restarted before it could be driven on the street. He was totally surprised that it had extreme surging problems, code P0171 being thrown, and high idle hang up issues. I was surprised that the mileage on the car when it was returned showed that it hardly had any extra miles on it over the miles it took to drive it to Florida. Larry had taken over two whole months tuning it from when he completed the engine work of installing the Striker heads.

As far as the valid tag, my car was promised to be completed by the beginning of April and the tags did not expire until the end of April. Then it was promised to be ready by the start of May and I was going to bring the new tags with me when I flew down to pick it up. In early May Larry called me and told me the tags had expired so I send him a copy of my new license plate, my insurance papers, and my registration so he could drive it the 500 miles for the engine break in period. I also sent a letter To Whom It May Concern specifically giving Larry permission to be driving my Viper. I thought when Sir Larry told me the car was ready for pick up that he had driven it in the real world since I had already paid him to drive it 500 miles. Remember, Larry promised that it would be a super reliable daily driver, throw no codes, and have at least the high 700's in power before he would release it back to me.

I understand your frustration, but you really can't expect to get all the bugs worked out over the phone. As JD said before, its an unproven build. If Larry did not get to drive the car for the 500 miles etc, no telling what can happen during the breakin miles. Anything change.

I paid the big bucks to get the best and most experienced Roe tuner around and I was counting on Larry being that person and making sure that I would be getting a super reliable daily driver, throw no codes, and have lots more power.

No power level was ever specified until Larry stated it would have at least the high 700's and I asked to make sure that the a super reliable daily driver & throw no codes would still be there and he said "Yes." Only after the Striker heads were installed did he apologise for not insisting I get the Jeff Morys Stage III heads instead. He had 5 months to insist that before the Striker heads arrived and failed to do so. Larry had 2 months after he told me my car was running to put the 500 break in miles on it. He told me at the beginning there was some minor cruising issues he was working on and I assumed he was driving my car putting on the 500 mile break in on it and correcting the cruising issues. If he would have driven the 500 miles like I had already paid him to do, he could tell what can happen during the breakin miles.

I can't see all the discussion about this when the car hasn't been returned to Larry so he can spend some time with the car ON THE STREET tuning it. You got the break-in miles on the car now, let the man finish his job now. Thankfully someone can take it back down for you.

I paid for a completed car project. He had two months after he got it to run with the Striker heads to run it on the street and did not. It was delivered to me as being complete, except I would have to put the 500 miles on it and Larry would return to adjust the tuning in a few weeks and did not.

"Give me your results, not your excuses." - Dr.James Beard

 

[Simms]

Simms quit sucking Macedo's ***!!! You don't understand how Kenny feels, it was not your 28K and not your car!! If the build was unproven why was it recommended and if it was not recommended wouldn't the tuner have some responsibility to at least warn the customer that this may not work???

And what is this crap about let him finish his work???? If it was not finished then why did it leave the shop in the first place. IT'S the tuner's responsibility to make sure it's finished before it leaves.

LOL, bite me Brian. From what I have seen/heard the build was not recommended.

Finish his work means, get the car back to Larry so he can deal with the issues with the car in his possesion. Its his job. Understand that.

 

[Simms]

Kenny, its simple. Give the car back so he can deal with the issues. Then go from there.