Good News for Generation I & II Vipers

[Black SRT]

Naples MotorSports in Florida recently reported that the wholesale price for the 96 blue & white Viper GTS has gone up by approximately $5k over the last 9 months. This is for low-mileage, mint condition examples, with the 97 blue & white GTS not far behind. They also report that prices for 1st & 2nd generation Vipers, in general, have held firm over this same time period. Previously, we have seen prices appreciate for the GTS-R and now these two categories, but why?

First of all, this was the first production year for the new GenII coupe, along with a performance boost to 450 HP. Additionally, the 96 & 97s were the only years with the lumpy cam that produced approximately 423 RWHP, and this compared with an average of 415 RWHP for subsequent GenIIs with the new cam profile (The great Lumpy vs. Creampuff debate). Add to this a very desirable color combination and the rest is history. Will other Gen I & IIs be far behind?

These increases bode well for all Gen I & II Vipers that have only ceased production a few years previous. With only 17k total units built, and what is widely believed to be a very classic car look, low-mileage Gen I & II Vipers may go into the appreciation phase of their lifecycle quicker than any other mass-produced, American made vehicle in history. All this may tempt you to hold onto these beauties, but then again ......................we may be looking at an opportunity of history repeating itself.

 

[SSSSE YA]

Sounds great to me, but I still drive My GTS (sometimes)....only 12,8XX miles

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

I agree with the possibilities and reasoning but I'll still enjoy mine too. 18,*** miles and will be back on road in Spring. No certainty in classic car market even though the Viper is a definite contendor. It took 35 years for the Hemicuda Convertibles to get recognized.

 

[Inferno]

"Additionally, the 96 & 97s were the only years with the lumpy cam that produced approximately 423 RWHP, and this compared with an average of 415 RWHP for subsequent GenIIs"


Not that anyone would care about 8hp, but where the hell did you come up with this $hit. You talk like it's a fact, back it up with some data. I heard this, and once I saw one on a dyno, doesn't mean $hit. Show me 100 vipers from every year on the same dyno, at the same temp,etc...........

 

[AG98RT10]

Didn't the 98 and 99 Vipers have the "lumpy" cam too?

Anyway, agree with the idea that Gen I and II Vipers will appreciate fairly quickly. They just didn't make that many of them...

 

[PDCjonny]

My '98 has a very lumpy cam, not sure but I think it changed in '99?

 

[IEATVETS]

That's great but will not affect me as I plan on being buried in my Gen1.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Last year of "Lumpy" was 99, 2000 was the first "creampuff".

 

[GTSnake]

According to a chart that someone posted a few weeks ago the cam profiles were all the same up to 2000. The only difference was the overlap in the '97 and '96.

Back on topic. What is the reason why our cars would appreciate? Is it a supply/demand thing? Not that I'm complaining but I'm very surprised that it would appreciate so fast.

 

[2BADD 4U]

Naples MotorSports in Florida recently reported that the wholesale price for the 96 blue & white Viper GTS has gone up by approximately $5k over the last 9 months. This is for low-mileage, mint condition examples, with the 97 blue & white GTS not far behind. They also report that prices for 1st & 2nd generation Vipers, in general, have held firm over this same time period. Previously, we have seen prices appreciate for the GTS-R and now these two categories, but why?

First of all, this was the first production year for the new GenII coupe, along with a performance boost to 450 HP. Additionally, the 96 & 97s were the only years with the lumpy cam that produced approximately 423 RWHP, and this compared with an average of 415 RWHP for subsequent GenIIs with the new cam profile (The great Lumpy vs. Creampuff debate). Add to this a very desirable color combination and the rest is history. Will other Gen I & IIs be far behind?

These increases bode well for all Gen I & II Vipers that have only ceased production a few years previous. With only 17k total units built, and what is widely believed to be a very classic car look, low-mileage Gen I & II Vipers may go into the appreciation phase of their lifecycle quicker than any other mass-produced, American made vehicle in history. All this may tempt you to hold onto these beauties, but then again ......................we may be looking at an opportunity of history repeating itself.

Yea this is a good thing, but bear in mind that the increase in prices are set by the dealers and their "Supply and Demand" for a certain car.

So certain dealer's cannot locate a special car in demand (B/W)..so we see a raised price. Will that mean that a 97-99 rt/10 will be more in demand..probably not.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Good news but since I've got 100K miles on my 98 and will hang onto both Vipers until I die it doesn't affect me in the least.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Who cares I'm not selling anyway. And if I was I'd set the price not someone else.

 

[00prowler]

I will sell my B/W GTS when it gets to the Hemi Cuda auction prices....AL...

 

[AG98RT10]

Back on topic. What is the reason why our cars would appreciate? Is it a supply/demand thing? Not that I'm complaining but I'm very surprised that it would appreciate so fast.

I think that's exactly what it is. What did a '96 B/W list for? Around 69-70K, right? Hard to believe that they're still worth around 50K ten model years later. My guess is the truly mint specimens will be bringing 100-150K in less than ten years.

I remember someone bought one with less than 100 miles on it, never titled, a couple months ago, saying they planned to drive it. All I could think was "Put that sucker in a bubble, dude!"

 

[IEATVETS]

Drive em'! What everybody is TRYING to say is that nobody really knows where the prices will be in 10, 20 or 30 years from now.

 

[got one]

That's great but will not affect me as I plan on being buried in my Gen1.

Same here...just crossed over 47k....

 

[94RT10Ohio]

Not to blast the author of that article, bit it does not take a rocket scientist to figure our the prices have leveled off over the past few years.

Why will the Viper appriciate....

Well, right now, maybe appriciate is the wrong word. Keeping up with inflation? If your car is worth 2K more 5 years later is it really 2K or even? This can be argued.

Look through this forum, especially this time of year when someone gets the bug and takes their car out on the cold streets. Result? One less clean Viper after it meets another car. When you are talking 17K cars and you take away the wrecked cars that does nothing but increase the demand for the clean cars and as a result, high demand, low supply, higher prices.

 

[TOOOFST]

I'm starting to like the SRT10

 

[garolittle]

I am approaching 21K miles and I love it. I will keep it clean but I will drive it until I hit 300K miles! I will then sell it at a profit and buy a low mileage Gen 2 Viper and repeat the process.

 

[2BADD 4U]

Not to blast the author of that article, bit it does not take a rocket scientist to figure our the prices have leveled off over the past few years.

Why will the Viper appriciate....

Well, right now, maybe appriciate is the wrong word. Keeping up with inflation? If your car is worth 2K more 5 years later is it really 2K or even? This can be argued.

Look through this forum, especially this time of year when someone gets the bug and takes their car out on the cold streets. Result? One less clean Viper after it meets another car. When you are talking 17K cars and you take away the wrecked cars that does nothing but increase the demand for the clean cars and as a result, high demand, low supply, higher prices.

Very good point and post. Something we really never consider is inflation.

Dave

 

[pauls]

96 GTS will be a car to have in 10 years!

 

[Newport Viper]

That's great but will not affect me as I plan on being buried in my Gen1.

Same here...just crossed over 47k....

Looks the same for me. 59,000

 

[96GTS232]

good post black srt....i also believe "all" gen I and II vipers value will increase slowly in the next ten years no matter what the year or mileage....some viper's will command a premium price due to a specific year ,model and mileage('92,'96 coupe,acr's,'02 fe's for example)...someone was looking for a stock '96 with <2k miles recently for $50k;wonder if they ever found one?? lol

 

[Black SRT]

Last year of "Lumpy" was 99, 2000 was the first "creampuff".

This is true. Two changes occurred in 2000 that helped these GenII Vipers earn the “Creampuff” title: Valve overlap timing and engine pistons went from forged to cast; however, the first cam profile change for GenIIs occurred in the 98 model year with an increase in valve intake and exhaust lift. Why there was a slight drop in HP after the 97 model year is open for speculation. Maybe an ECM change to accompany the valve change, but the decrease is generally considered to be true.

The following links are not exactly a scientific study, but they do offer some evidence to support the theory. The HP numbers I quoted in the initial post assumed smooth tubes and K&N filters, but otherwise stock. Also, the old Viper board had a link where people could post dyno results and this is where I recollect seeing most of this data. Maybe someone still knows how to get at the link.


http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=12885&page=20&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=11759&page=24&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=9648&page=34&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=13907&page=17&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://www.viperclub.org/faq/powerfaq.html#dyno

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=14136&page=16&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://home.nc.rr.com/thecones/dynoday.htm

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=11307&page=26&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

 

[Whoaa GTS]

[/QUOTE]


Very good point and post. Something we really never consider is inflation.

Dave

[/QUOTE]

Not only inflation, but also the cost of insurance, storage, taking up space in your garage. After 20 years of letting a car sit I would think that those two factors along with inflation could make a high resale a wash, not to mention the torture of having such a car and not driving it for hopes of a high resale value.

 

[viper spray]

97s are the fastest

 

[rcdice]

I always love these discussions. Here's my $.02

Vipers are hand built and therefore bone stock HP varies. My non-lumpy cam, cast piston creampuff consistently dyno'ed in the low 420's rwhp prior to mods. Six pulls, two diferrent days.

Lumpy cam was the same 96-99. Wish my car came with one from the factory.

Why would a 96 B/W appreciate more than a 97? Usually the more evolved cars do better (ie. 67 vette vs. earlier). Didn't the 96's have a list of problems that were worked out in 97? Same engine. Unless you absolutely have to have the stripes through the lic. plate, I'd think the smarter purchase would be 97.

Too bad they didn't put the Gen II hood on the 97 B/W RT/10. Already a rare car but the "smoothy" hood turns some off as a Gen II. That car will hold its own fine, but with a ducted/vented hood? Lights out.

Lastly, I'm in the camp of dying with this car. Already great memories in it. The car and I will be at the Vegas VOI. My 10 year old son will inherit it someday. Hopefully, no time soon.

 

[Black SRT]

Why would a 96 B/W appreciate more than a 97? Usually the more evolved cars do better (ie. 67 vette vs. earlier).

I think HP has always been a key factor in determining which car in a particular generation is most desirable. The 67 big block Corvette was the only mid-year to offer a 435 HP, 427ci engine (L71). This was 10 HP more than the 427ci (L72) in the 66 model year. Also, there were a couple of other rare options in the 67 MY that made it stand out. L88 all aluminum engine (20 only) and the L89 all aluminum heads (16 only). No one would argue that a 1st production year, 1968, 3rd generation Corvette with a 435 HP 427ci engine, is worth more than the final production year 1982 with a 200 HP, 350ci small block.

All things being equal, final production year does make a difference, as in the case of the 95 ZR-1 vs. the 94 with the same 405 HP LT-5 and 448 total units built each year. The 95s have always been worth more and going up in price for about 2 years now with the 94s holding steady.

Another reason I would give a very slight edge to the 96 b/w GTS over the 97 is due to rarity (1,200 units vs. 1,700).

The key point to take away from this thread is that you need to drive and enjoy these cars and let the chips fall where they may. I have a friend that has put 300,000 miles on his Shelby Cobra over the last 35 years and his car is still worth over 50 times what he paid for it. How's that for appreciation on a high mileage vehicle?

 

[DodgeViper01]

Just got back from Miami and hit 34,900 miles. Gotta love these cars!

 

[banton]

I just picked up my 97 B&W with 4k miles....whether it will appreciate sometime in the future wasn't the purpose of the purchase, however having a mint B&W at a decent price was

Brad