Got a question for all who used the aftermarket motor mounts. Pics.

[Qualitywires.com]

I was installing a set of motor mounts on Gene's 2006 SRT10 Viper.
It appeared to be a straight forward install but ended up not being it.
I think it might be due to getting a duplicate set of mounts for the same
side (Driver's side). If you look at the illustration I made it will explain
the situation. I finally got the motor mounts in and everything seems to be
fine and aligned right, but it appears these mounts are either #1 not
really made for the viper, but can be used if modified. #2 I got two
driver side mounts by mistake when they were order.


The passenger side mount would not align up right due to the round
raised nub on the back side of the mount facing the frame.
The round nub was preventing the mount to seat properly against the frame.
Further investigation showed that the OEM did not have this round nub
on the passenger side mount facing the frame. See the illustration.
So I had to ground down the nub on the passenger side facing
the frame side and everything aligned up correctly afterwards.
Any thoughts? (All is fine by the way after I modified the mount).

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[ViperTony]

Looks like the Woodhouse mounts. I installed those on my GenII and both sides required that raised nub. Perhaps you received a GenII set instead of a GenIII set?

 

[B767DRIVER]

Those are the Woodhouse mounts. They look identical to the ones I received. Both had the tab. My tech had a little difficulty at first. He was able to get them to seat properly by lifting the engine more and installing the passenger side first then the driver side. Here is a thread here where people have done exactly what Adam did by grounding the tab off.

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...s/607207-good-viperations-mark-jorgenson.html

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Those are the Woodhouse mounts. They look identical to the ones I received. Both had the tab. My tech had a little difficulty at first. He was able to get them to seat properly by lifting the engine more and installing the passenger side first then the driver side. There is a thread here where people have done exactly what Adam did by grounding the tab off.

We tried to get it to fit, but there was no way it was going to work so either the slot on the frame on the car was not long enough to allow the bolt and the nub to fit through or the nub on the mount had to be removed. We could get the mount to fit in the slot on the frame but aligning it to the engine it would not do. I would say it was maybe 1/4" off. No biggie now, I got everything to work now.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

ADAM YOU RECEIVED THE CORRECT MOUNTS...

Read that again.. YOU RECIEVED the correct mounts.

I know they are idnetical, and thats how they come, and its to save cost. You could do two things.....

1. DO IT like I did and get them both to work, which requires SERIOUS finagalling of the engine (used a tranny jack. In which I removed both sides and supported the motor with the tranny jack..
also jacked the engine up as high as it would go, and even had to take out the cross member becuase it bumped into the super charger. After that it actually became a LOT easier.

2nd. You can simply GRIND off ONE of the tabs. Off of the passenger side mount. you really only need 1 tab on the drivers side based on the "torqueing' of the engine (those tabs are used to force the engine to stay in its place). Dan Lesser (Final GTS) grinds the one side off, and says its perfectly ok. I however decided I liked the extra 'lock down' of the engines position by having them both installed.


Thats it. TRUST me on this one, its a major job to install those. But if you know what your facing and you know you have the right stuff, and you know others have done it, then its easier to do it, becaue your not doubting yourself.

If you have any more prolbems call me or Dan..

Jon

 

[Qualitywires.com]

ADAM YOU RECEIVED THE CORRECT MOUNTS...

Read that again.. YOU RECIEVED the correct mounts.

I know they are idnetical, and thats how they come, and its to save cost. You could do two things.....

1. DO IT like I did and get them both to work, which requires SERIOUS finagalling of the engine (used a tranny jack. In which I removed both sides and supported the motor with the tranny jack..
also jacked the engine up as high as it would go, and even had to take out the cross member becuase it bumped into the super charger. After that it actually became a LOT easier.

2nd. You can simply GRIND off ONE of the tabs. Off of the passenger side mount. you really only need 1 tab on the drivers side based on the "torqueing' of the engine (those tabs are used to force the engine to stay in its place). Dan Lesser (Final GTS) grinds the one side off, and says its perfectly ok. I however decided I liked the extra 'lock down' of the engines position by having them both installed.


Thats it. TRUST me on this one, its a major job to install those. But if you know what your facing and you know you have the right stuff, and you know others have done it, then its easier to do it, becaue your not doubting yourself.

If you have any more prolbems call me or Dan..

Jon

Did all the above you described already. The only way I could get the extra nub to work on the car I have is to lengthen the slot on the frame. Otherwise there was no way for it to fit on the particular car I mounted these on. But none the less it's all in place and secure. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

no prob. But trust me, everyone who tries to install them THINKS they wont fit, me including. But they do. Elongating the hole is one way, but cutting it off the mount was probably the better way, since the mount is disposable/used-up-over-time and the frame isnt.

Or fight like a **** and make it work, like i did..lol

Jon

 

[Alan Patterson]

2 weeks ago I went through the same thing... What I thought was a half day job turned into several days of putzing around. My first problem was that I could not get the motormount/bracket out from under the passenger side--even after removing the cross member/air inlet box/etc. I just couldn't jack the motor up high enough to make room to get it out. So eventually, I disconnected the motormount from the bracket while lodged between the motor and the frame under the car. Then the 2 pieces came out easily.... I then installed the new motormount on the passenger side while again lodging the bracket/mount between the frame and motor to torque it down. (The driver side was very easy to take out and put back in, and the vice made easy work of torqueing the mount to the bracket.) Now the good part... once I got it all back in and let the motor down on the mounts, it became obvious that the "extra" tab on the passenger side was not going to fit into the slot... so you guessed it, I had to pull it out again, cut off the tab, and reinstall...

Bottom line: Anyone installing aftermarket replacement mounts should insure there is no tab on the passenger side mount...just like the OEM (stock) one!!

 

[Viper Specialty]

yep, some cars can get away with it, some cant. I always machine off the Pass side at this point like the factory mounts. Even with no tabs at all, the engine wouldnt be moving anywhere with properly torqued mounts.

In my opinion, even on some cars where it will fit, you are then effectively squeezing the engine between the frame rails after torquing it down. Considering the tolerances of these engines, if I was a betting man, I'd say you would be able to see deflection wear in those cylinders over time if the block was being squeezed a good bit by the rails.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

yep, some cars can get away with it, some cant. I always machine off the Pass side at this point like the factory mounts. Even with no tabs at all, the engine wouldnt be moving anywhere with properly torqued mounts.

In my opinion, even on some cars where it will fit, you are then effectively squeezing the engine between the frame rails after torquing it down. Considering the tolerances of these engines, if I was a betting man, I'd say you would be able to see deflection wear in those cylinders over time if the block was being squeezed a good bit by the rails.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Do these mounts fit on another car?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Do these mounts fit on another car?

Another as in non-Viper? I dont think so.

 

[Racer Robbie]

On my 2003 I did not have to cut the tabs off but it was a really tough job. I bought mine form Snake Oyl, Part 220-327-001-11. I had to remove the transmission mount which gave me the clearance needed to get it lined up and into place. Anyone who thinks this is an easy job has another thing coming. It is also very important to properly torque the motor mount bolts with a quality torque wrench. But what a difference in how the car drives, shifts, and handles with the stiffer mounts. Just remember, according to snake-Oyl, it is not a good idea to do drag strip runs with these mounts as it can sometimes warp the cylinders where the mounts attached.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

The stiffness in the mounts makes it extremly hard to get the last mount in. I ground off the corner of the tab (shaped it into a ramp) so it would go into the slot and then seat itself as I torqued the nut down.

 

[Alan Patterson]

I am curious as to how you guys were able to remove the passenger side motormount/bracket... Did it come out from the top or the bottom? Did you have to remove the exhaust manifold? Exactly how high were you able to jack up the motor from the frame? etc...
thx,
Al

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

My thoughts exactly.

I'm not trolling you guys, but I dissagree. If that was the case, then the dirvers side that IS 'torqued' like that from having the 'tab' in place would see those supposed problems too. I actually think by having both sides locked down I am significantly reducing the likelyhood or even possiblilty of the engine moving around.

Also, Dan negates himself by saying the engine wont move anyways if you torque them down correctly. So in that case, both tabs become irrelant supposedly if you torque them down properly.

Nope, sorry, glad I got mine both in, I do agree its not the end of the world if you dont get the passenger one in, and grind if off, just glad I was capable of doing it, when my two BOOB TECHINCAL friends couldn't.

Love Jon.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Assvedo shut it. LOL! I am still taller than you. When you are only 4 feet tall under a lift, you could probably get your troll little arms in there or even better yet...being so small as you are you probably just climb up in the engine and did the install that way. You're still shorter than me.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Alan on the srt-10, I would recommend removing the oil pan. Makes life a lot easier and raise the engine also. Taking off the cross member will also allow for more room.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

I am curious as to how you guys were able to remove the passenger side motormount/bracket... Did it come out from the top or the bottom? Did you have to remove the exhaust manifold? Exactly how high were you able to jack up the motor from the frame? etc...
thx,
Al

I did mine from the top, I was also installing headers at the same time. It is possible to move the motor around quite a bit if needed.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Assvedo shut it. LOL! I am still taller than you. When you are only 4 feet tall under a lift, you could probably get your troll little arms in there or even better yet...being so small as you are you probably just climb up in the engine and did the install that way. You're still shorter than me.

lol, instead of refuting me, you attempt to make short people jokes. What I LOVE about the short people jokes is a few years back, you pm'd me and said something along the lines of "I know your taller, but people dont know that, and its funny."

Which of course isnt saying much, given that I am only 5'7, and your like 4'4 or something??

Here is a photo reminder ... keep in mind folks, thats a 2 feet tall concrete wall, with a 6 foot 2x4 wall: (See how tall he makes his 8 foot tall garage look??)

 

[Qualitywires.com]

I am still taller than you...and smarter.
2ft tall cement walls. LOL! Funny picture.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Thx.

And no you're not taller.

BTW hurry up and come to chicago and install my wires, I want to show everyone how great they are !!

 

[Viper Specialty]

I'm not trolling you guys, but I dissagree. If that was the case, then the dirvers side that IS 'torqued' like that from having the 'tab' in place would see those supposed problems too. I actually think by having both sides locked down I am significantly reducing the likelyhood or even possiblilty of the engine moving around.

Also, Dan negates himself by saying the engine wont move anyways if you torque them down correctly. So in that case, both tabs become irrelant supposedly if you torque them down properly.

Nope, sorry, glad I got mine both in, I do agree its not the end of the world if you dont get the passenger one in, and grind if off, just glad I was capable of doing it, when my two BOOB TECHINCAL friends couldn't.

Love Jon.

John... you are on the completely wrong page as to why it would be squeezed inbetween the rails. That has nothing at all to do with the mounting fasteners in any case at its root cause. A tab on either side means nothing. However, a tab on BOTH sides, if forced in, would cause the engine to sit lower in the frame rails than it is supposed to. Normally, it will only settle so low on the passenger side, though if two tabs are used, preventing either side from settling further up, it will hold the engine down to a point where it will be stressed when the mounts are tightened due to the 45* angle or so that the mounts are at. As you can plainly see, pushing something down between two immovable 45* angles will obviously shorten the distance between two points at equal vertical heights.

You WOULD be correct, *IF*, and only *IF* the tabs settled down into the slots normally without force- then I would say keep them. But if you look at AB's pictures of the mounts, you can see, the mount with no tab puts the frame, not the slot right over the tab location. To get this mount in that car, WOULD require forcing the pass side of that engine down about 1/2" below normal.

If you have any doubt on this, consult your geometry book.

Take THAT

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Omg, so that MOMENTARY force (which mine looked JUST like that, and i dint need to FORCE ANYTHING), is whats going to tweak my motor? Or the fact that its SITTING between these two engine mounts, which is their EXACT purpose?

No, you guys just couldnt figure out how to make it work. Face it. It takes a TON of finagaling (sp?) to get it to work, which im sure neither of you wants to spend (and I cant blame you, but I had that time given I was the owner and not billing for my time spent).

FYI, if you EVER successfully pull it off (which I doubt you will), you will see there is still some 'movement' possible (even if its just 1/8 of an inch or so), once they are correctly installed. So it certainly is NOT a pressed fit once you get them in. It only would be temporarily when your trying to force them in. Which I didnt have to do.

I wish Mark would speak to these, since Woodhouse is the ones who made them. But given the characters in this thread, I am not suprised they are avoiding it. (Me being the biggest one.. lol).

Jon

 

[Viper Specialty]

Omg, so that MOMENTARY force (which mine looked JUST like that, and i dint need to FORCE ANYTHING), is whats going to tweak my motor? Or the fact that its SITTING between these two engine mounts, which is their EXACT purpose?

No, you guys just couldnt figure out how to make it work. Face it. It takes a TON of finagaling (sp?) to get it to work, which im sure neither of you wants to spend (and I cant blame you, but I had that time given I was the owner and not billing for my time spent).

FYI, if you EVER successfully pull it off (which I doubt you will), you will see there is still some 'movement' possible (even if its just 1/8 of an inch or so), once they are correctly installed. So it certainly is NOT a pressed fit once you get them in. It only would be temporarily when your trying to force them in. Which I didnt have to do.

I wish Mark would speak to these, since Woodhouse is the ones who made them. But given the characters in this thread, I am not suprised they are avoiding it. (Me being the biggest one.. lol).

Jon

LOL, you poor confused soul. Please get your geometry book out. I'll even pay for it!

Also, see sentance: "yep, some cars can get away with it, some cant."

Now read: "You WOULD be correct, *IF*, and only *IF* the tabs settled down into the slots normally without force- then I would say keep them. But if you look at AB's pictures of the mounts, you can see, the mount with no tab puts the frame, not the slot right over the tab location. To get this mount in that car, WOULD require forcing the pass side of that engine down about 1/2" below normal."


Is it making sense yet, or do I need to make a diagram?

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Don't forget ASsvedo got a "special" viper made for short people so he may have a different set up than the normal one.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Don't forget ASsvedo got a "special" viper made for short people so he may have a different set up than the normal one.

lol, and what version did you get? The 'I cant drive, I totalled mine and blamed it on someone else, so insurance would pay out' version?

Thanks, I'll keep the Jon's is special version. I'd rather not have yours.. or whats left of it.

BTW, bring whichever of your Miami Vice cars is the fastest to Chicago (if they'll make it) and I'll show you what my short version Viper can do to your 'soon to be wrecked, 80s italians'

Dan can just kiss my ass, as usual. He always tries to 'craft' things to match his opinion, when he isnt able make them work the way they should. Fortunately he USUALLY gets it to work, so he doesnt have to make excuses. This time he does.

C U 2 ******* in Detroit I hope.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

80's style lol. You can't spell 80's. Your short version Viper eh? You gonna show me huh? I tell you what, I will bring an extra set of yellow pages for you to add to your yellow pages that you sit on already so you can see over the steering wheel when I come up. Good news is you can use the yellow pages to wipe up all that oil from your twisted engine after you screw it up.

Ahh, no sense in arguing with me Jon...just like the good ole days..in the end you always get your feelings hurt. Hey BTW, get those damn wires on your car. Stop pussying footing around.

BTW accidents do happen. Just ask your dad. LOL!

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan can just kiss my ass, as usual. He always tries to 'craft' things to match his opinion, when he isnt able make them work the way they should. Fortunately he USUALLY gets it to work, so he doesnt have to make excuses. This time he does.

C U 2 ******* in Detroit I hope.

There damn well better not be any talk of "mounts" or "positions" when you are around me Jon, or thats it for you!

 

[dave6666]

http://forums.viperclub.org/2505616-post1.html