HAS ANYONE EVER RUN 2 STOCK CARS SIDE BY SIDE 3.07 vs 3.55???

[EXECMALIBU]

I have seen tons of theory and speculation going back years! There have been numerous obviously educated mechanical engineers and physics experts (no flames intended) that have posted technical information about what should happen on paper!!


Simple test!

Lets find 2 basically stock cars (tubes/filters OK) and let them run 0-60, 0-100 or the 1/4 mile side by side a few times.. If one car is obviously faster try switching drivers to eliminate the driver factor.


AND THE WINNER IS!!!

My 01 creampuff seems to pull harder and feels faster with 3.55 gears but I cant say definately that it is..

 

[REDSLED]

I like that idea! I just piked up a 97 GTS yesterday that is stock and although I know that it should be faster, my 94 RT/10 with the 3.55 gears seems to pull harder. Let me correct that last statement, I drove both cars today and the 3.55 gears does let the car pull harder and pins you back in the seat. The GTS just doesn't seem to have the SOTP feel yet! I will be putting 3.73 gears in the GTS as soon as possible. Hey Jon B. got any specials this month on gears? The difference is especially noticeable in 2 & 3 gear. The gear swap also makes 5th & 6th gear usable.

 

[webtrader]

So..........The answer is 3:55's OR 3:73's ???

Jim

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

There has been one, maybe two 1/4 mile confirmations that the 3.55 is quicker. Not enough to sell me and SOTP aint enough.

 

[REDSLED]

Well Webtrader, you can't go wrong with the 3.55's. In my case, I'm going with 3.73's in the GTS as I already have the 3.55's in the RT/10. The 3.55's allow the car to pull hard so the 3.73's should pull just a wee bit harder.

 

[TOOOFST]

Here's a few examples:I raced Butch the Snakes yellow 01 at the track and he pulled me everytime through 60ft.He could launch the 307 between 2500-3000 and take off.I tried several things and could get better than 2.060ft.Butch runs 1.90's 60ft at 11.90's(stock tires).From a roll on the street I love the gear.I raced some supras that run consistant 12.0 from a roll and beat em by 2 cars every time.I'll be dropping my gear for drag racing so I don't have to shift like a crack monkey into 5th.

 

[C O D Y]

Myself and Rob ran again on Friday night.

He has 3.55, k&N, tubes, and catback (19,000 miles on a 2001 GTS)

I have 3.07, K&N, catback (2,000 miles on a 2002 GTS)

Rob ran 11.9 and I ran 12.3. I know my car will go faster, I just haven't nail the start yet. My 60' times are 2.1 and his are around 1.9 to 2.0 (sometimes 1.7 or 1.8). I feel there is very little to gain on the track by adding 3.55's. With the 3.07 you can shift 1 less time then with the 3.55's. Either way the key is getting the tires to stick off the line.

If the 3.55's are faster, it's by no more than 1 tenth at best.

A side by side test wouldn't mean anything. The driver matters more in drag racing. Let the same driver take 3 runs with each car. That would tell a better story.

 

[genXgts]

I hit 4th with 3.07 gears Cody, you hold out third in yours?

Or does a 3.55 need a flick to 5th?

 

[EXECMALIBU]

CODY,
IF HIS TIMES ARE FASTER BY EVEN .O1 IN THE 1/4 BUT HE HAS AN EXTRA SHIFT...

THEN WHAT SEEMS TO BE TRUE IS THAT THE CARS ARE DEFINATELY FASTER WITH THE 3.55s!

= MUCH MORE FUN ON THE TRACK AND ON THE STREET..

I ALSO HAD RECOMENDED SWITHING DRIVERS IN MY ORIGINAL POST...

 

[C O D Y]

I have ran both ways.

On that that night holding 3rd was faster by one tenth.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by genXgts:
I hit 4th with 3.07 gears Cody, you hold out third in yours?

Or does a 3.55 need a flick to 5th?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[C O D Y]

It should also be known that Rob is a very good drag racer and I have only about 12 runs in the viper under my belt.

 

[Motor City Mad Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by genXgts:
I hit 4th with 3.07 gears Cody, you hold out third in yours?

Or does a 3.55 need a flick to 5th?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ryan, no need to shift to 5th with 3.55 gears in the 1/4.

 

[EXECMALIBU]

WHAT IS THE RPM IN 4TH??

 

[onerareviper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
You'd have to use a diff. cooler with 3.73's so I would not bother with them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To each his own, but I will say this. I have the 3.73 in my '98 GTS (440 RWHP) and LOVE them. Several other owners in my area concur, and none have had the need for a diff. cooler. If you think about it logically, the 3.55 and 3.73 are very, very close. Very little difference, with the 3.73's slightly steeper. For the life of me I can't figure out why people act like the 3.55 are perfect, and the 3.73's are way too much. Very slight difference between the two. The shift point are only a couple MPH difference in each gear. As a matter of fact, I think 4.10's would be perfect in a 100% stock Viper. Call me nuts, but a stock Viper with stock gears feels like a dog out of the hole (to me).

My .02

 

[ronviper]

Cody i have a 2000gts and at 2000 miles it was not as fast as when i reached over 5000 miles. The difference to me seems more like driver and loser motor 19000 miles compared to 2000 miles. Gears will always give a seat of the pants feeling but does that translate into more power, all gears really do is move the power band around. For the street more bottom end power with gears however it's a trade off for top end power.

 

[jamie furman]

Have seen both tried, 355's feel faster but they are not you don't need torque with that v10 and fast cars can't even make through the traps. 355's might make you a little more consistent at the dragstrip but they don't make you any faster. At least that has been my experience.

 

[SneakyPete]

What is the RWHP cut off where 355's would be to low, due to high RPM spin up. 600RWHP????

It must be a great upgrade for close to stock vipers. what about the higher horsepower cars?

 

[JonB]

As usual, THE YEAR MATTERS !

3.73 in a 400HP Gen 1 has a similiar SOTP as 3.55 in a 450HP Gen 2. If you have more HP your results are magnified.

Do you want to tune your driveline for the last 50' of 1320' ?
Choose the gear for the venue you most need to drive in! The SOTP "feel" of an extra 50hp is very real, with acceleration benefits 30-130mph. On the dyno, look at the TIMELINE to peak HP....you get there much faster...over 1 full sec facter.

Select 3.55 because EVERY GEARCHANGE AFTER hookup comes faster, and the acceleartion just occurs 15% faster!

3.73 gears REQUIRE a 'severe service cycle' on both the trans and the rear diff. High heat in both. Significantly more than 3.55 in fact. 3.55 is the gear that the Viper cries out for! (inmyopinion)

3.73 wheelspin is almost unmanageable w/ 450+hp. FORGET to roll-on the loud pedal carefully in 3rd and you can whip the asp end around if you mash the gas. Bad in a corner on the street!

Bill P I deeply respect your opinions and driving skills, but we vary here on track gears. I guess because you are in 30 minute Viper Days races and I drive the Viper in 20-minute club events and pace-car work and a few drags..and on the street. Shifts are ok..and not as stressful. As I recall, Olivier Beretta said that at Lemans he shifted 2000+ times an hour !

At PIR the 3.55 Puulllls me out of the corners faster, and is better for those short-chute mini-straightaways that I drive. 2.0 mile roadcourse with 9 (or 12) turns. I spend almost the whole course in 3rd....1 straight asks for 4th, 1 needs 5th. I dont mind an extra shift for the extra pulling power. Your track may vary!

Facts: The reason Dodge put a 3.07 is for lower gas guzzle tax. NOT for C.A.F.E....... NOT because 3.07 is best. It aint!
Go w/ 3.55 UNLESS the last 50' rules your life (then go 3.33 or 3.45). Or if you have 650+ HP (then 3.33) Or if you have a stock G-1, maybe, maybe think 3.73. Probably not.

The 3.55 terminal speed allows 4th gear up to about 500hp. Over That you have done the last 1000' so fast you need 5th, or a 3.45 gear!

 

[Jerry Dobson]

Viper Jim,

I need to have a ride in your 3.55. I may need one of those. How much money are we talking for a 3.55 upgrade?

 

[EXECMALIBU]

THAT IS EXACTLY MY EXPERIANCE!!

I DRIVE THE CAR ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ON THE STREET AND OCASSIONALY ON A ROAD COARSE!! THE 3.55s ARE GREAT!!

WHEN WE DO STREET RACE A TT PORSCHE,BIKE OR A FERRARI ECT..

WE ALWAYS LET THE LIGHT GO GREEN ROLL OUT A FEW YARDS AND THEN STOMP ON IT!


NO ONE I HAVE EVER RACED ON THE STREET, REVS THE CRAP OUT OF IT THEN DUMPS THE CLUTCH LIGHTING UP THE TIRES FOR 3 BLOCKS!

THAT WOULD ATTRACT WAY TO MUCH ATTENTION!!!..

ON THE DRAG STRIP IT IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY..


THE SHORTER 3.55 GEARS ARE GREAT FOR THE 2ND TO 3RD SHIFT..I WONDER IF THE 3.73 GEARS WOULD BE EVEN BETTER??

 

[onerareviper]

ViperJim,

You and I have the same mindset. Here is an example of an acceleration run in my '98 GTS (420-440 RWHP). Dry quality road, 80+ Degrees, and nicely broke in 18' Pilots at 29 PSI.

1'st gear - Modulate clutch and achieve full throttle with little or no wheels spin.

2'nd gear - Speed shifting into second will break the rears loose if I stay on the gas (powershift), but even so will hook up quickly. This is fun, but probably cost time. Therefore, I generally let of the gas and shift with little or no wheel spin.

3'rd gear - Shift into third only slightly lifting off the throttle. Usually hear a chirp and rocket forward.

4'th gear - Shift into fourth, and keep the gas planted. Usually hooks up, but occasionally I hear a small chirp. Finish this gear at around 125 MPH (For you 1/4 mile freaks).

5'th gear - Shift into fifth, and keep the gas planted. Always hooks up, never heard a chirp. Still hoping, though. Can achieve a top speed of around 170 MPH in this gear.

6'th gear - Cruising. Here's the funny part. I can be in this gear at 40 MPH, without bogging. 55 MPH and above no problem. Never tried this gear for high speed run. Most experts say you will loose momentum, due to long gear. I may have to test this on a closed course, wink wink... But I'm not doubting this statement, as it is logical.

** I will agree with Jon B. about coming out of a corner. With the increase in torque, you have to be real careful. Although, even with the stock 3.07 gears it is not a good idea to slam the gas down coming out of a turn. Unless your doing it for sh*ts & giggles...

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

This has been a question that keeps being asked and the general consensus seems to be that 3.55s are a bit quicker at the dragstrip,whereas for the track it is much better to keep the 3.07s ( way too many shifts with the 3.55s). I ran a 11.98 with 3.07s in my 98 and Chris Marshall has run 12.00 with 3.07 gearing in his 2000, so times can be close and launching is the big, big issue. I took my 3.55s out of my car and switched back to 3.07s. It felt great around the street with the 3.55s, probably was a tid bit faster in the quarter ( never ran the new car ), but it is a world better on the road course with the 3.07s ---- down to 2 shifts on a local course where I was doing 6. With those thoughts in mind, it might give folks an idea what they want from their car.Personally I would not even consider the 3.73s,as few people have espoused the benefit of this set-up, and many find it very restrictive for strip or track.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

PS - You should be in 4th gear with both rear end ratios on a good run.

 

[EXECMALIBU]

BILL P.

I RUN MY CAR VERY HARD THROUGH OUR LOCAL CANYON ROADS AND THE LOWER 3.55 GEARS FEEL MUCH BETTER BECAUSE THE CAR PULLS MUCH HARDER IN 3RD UP THE HILLS! BEFORE THE 3.55 CHANGE THE CAR SEEMED TO BOG JUST A LITTLE IN 3RD.

ON A ROAD COARSE LIKE LAGUNA SECA THE 3.55 GEARS SHOULD BE MUCH BETTER BECAUSE THE CAR WILL PULL HARDER OUT OF THE TURNS..

THIS SHOULD BE TRUE ESPESICALLY IF YOU ARE TRYING TO PASS ANOTHER CAR IN A TIGHT SECTION..

IF THE CAR PULLS HARDER ON A DRAG STRIP. THEN I WOULD THINK BETTER ACCELLERATION ON A TIGHT ROAD COARSE IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

[Jack B]

Here are a couple of thoughts. A Gen II with a 200 shot of N2O will turn 130-135 in the quarter. If you have a window switch it should be set at 5800 rpm. That is getting very close (in 4th)with 3.73 gearing.

The traction at the strip should not be an issue. In general with the MT ET's on a well prepared strip you are not turning the tires, even with N2O.

I guess that is one pro and one con.

 

[REDSLED]

So are 3.73's too much for a stock GTS? I really like the way the 3.55's pull for my Gen I. I don't want to have to cool the diff just to put in 3.73's. Jon B. where are you? Any Viper folk out there who can give me a little insight on the 3.73's?
I don't car about 60 times or 1/4 mile times I just want the "neck snapping" feel you get in 3-4th gear with the 3.55's when you slam the peddle. If 3.55's are good for the "snap" the 3.73's should be just a little bit "snappier?"
-Jonathan

 

[onerareviper]

Redsled,

Are my post invisible?

Later

 

[REDSLED]

Onerareviper, nope your posts aren't invisible I just didn't catch the first post. My bad! I think I'll put the 3.73's in the GTS and see how it goes. I'm sure I won't be dissapointed. Thanks for the info on the gears.
-Jonathan

 

[Sean Roe]

If two Vipers with 3.07 vs. 3.55 or 3.73 line up for this test, I have a request. After doing some runs, with each car at the same road speed and in the same gear, try doing a second test. In this one, run the car with the 3.07 rear a gear lower than the car with the shorter gear, at the same road speed (i.e. 2nd vs 3r or 3rd vs 4th). Will the 3.07 car at a higher RPM get pulled by the 3.55 or 3.73 at a lower rpm? You might have to run through a gear or two to see.

Sean