cubican
Enthusiast
I just want to see if we have any # of the hp gain from it, the kit looks to be well price I know that it needs a cam for the 150 hp claim what about a comp cupe cam with it.
Has anyone install the Mopar Performance Part # P5156137 gen4 heads for the gen3
- Thread starter cubican
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mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
We have installed the conversion using a perfectly degreed stock cam, Belanger headers, Corsa cat back on a healthy motor and seen gains very close to the 150. The stock cam may not be perfectly degreed in and cost a few HP so that should be on the list to get the very most out of the kit, or maybe even a custom cam if you want to, but I would ask Mopar if the calibration it comes with will work with the cam of choice first.
We also changed the gears to 3.55 at the same time so our dyno numbers were a bit skewed apples to apples on a Mustang dyno though so not worth posting the customers sheets sorry. The car was VERY strong after though so a good set up if you go all the way.
We also changed the gears to 3.55 at the same time so our dyno numbers were a bit skewed apples to apples on a Mustang dyno though so not worth posting the customers sheets sorry. The car was VERY strong after though so a good set up if you go all the way.
Mark, is that 150rwhp or 150bhp gain? Thanks.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Calculated at the crank, Arrow has a half dozen or so on their engine dyno that have ranged from 648 to 655 with the same configuration. You may be better off with the BBG/ARH from the ACRX to get the the best results though since they have shown more top end gains. I would probably do that if we do another one down the line.
Thanks for the info Mark. Glad to see this package getting installed. Potential customers have been waiting for proof and it sounds like they're about to get it. With the VPA discount on the Mopar performance package...it seems like a good deal for N/A on the GenIII.
Tail lights
Viper Owner
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Mark, Can those heads be bolted on to my Gen II? I have the ARH headers with the dual bolt pattern.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems the perfect combo for a true 150rwhp gain is
This gen IV package
Gen 4 headers, arh/belanger, etc...
Aggressive cam
Also, wasn't this the source of frustration with the mopar package since after all is said and done, to get the same 150rwhp increase like a H/C package, the pricing is about the same for a standard H/C build?
This gen IV package
Gen 4 headers, arh/belanger, etc...
Aggressive cam
Also, wasn't this the source of frustration with the mopar package since after all is said and done, to get the same 150rwhp increase like a H/C package, the pricing is about the same for a standard H/C build?
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
No I don't believe that is an option, I have not heard you could anyway. I will call and ask the builders though.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
This may be true, but this was developed by the people that build the Viper engine so that is a plus in many customers eyes. There will always be options for sure and with the H/C builds they are redoing your heads so the cost is for labor only, with the Mopar system you get all new parts (including the intake) that are consistent build quality each time. I'm in NO WAY knocking Greg Good or any others out there, they all have impeccable reputations and I have seen and installed their work in the past too.
No argument from me there Mark. In fact, tht is exactly what I like about this setup, new consistent parts every time.
I don't think this package has been paired with a big cam yet. If I were in the financial position to do a H/C build, I would go this mopar route instead.
cubican
Enthusiast
Good info a dyno sheet will go a long way for future sale, I like the look of the kit. I just want to know the real wheel hp out of it.
JohnnyH
Enthusiast
I also would like to see wheel hp gains on this as I been going back and forth about this kit.
cubican
Enthusiast
I just found a dyno sheet from an install on a viper truck not sure what to think about it. they show a 70hp gain stock cam work was done by ART.
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JohnnyH
Enthusiast
was that just a bolt on and dyno?
Guys, this is why businesses like ours exist. If you want a package built correctly with all of the question marks removed... you need only ask for it:
This is a VS-X700 Gen-4 converted Gen-3, which makes 710 crank horsepower [well over 600 RW] on a very mild, "drives better than stock & still passes emissions" camshaft. If we used a larger cam, it would easily head towards 750, but after everyone has seen or ridden in this car, they choose the unbelievable street manners over a little more power. This car could quite literally be delivered off the showroom floor as a 700HP OEM package, and nobody would notice.
This is a VS-X700 Gen-4 converted Gen-3, which makes 710 crank horsepower [well over 600 RW] on a very mild, "drives better than stock & still passes emissions" camshaft. If we used a larger cam, it would easily head towards 750, but after everyone has seen or ridden in this car, they choose the unbelievable street manners over a little more power. This car could quite literally be delivered off the showroom floor as a 700HP OEM package, and nobody would notice.
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ohlarikd
Enthusiast
How would this compare to a Paxton install? The thing I really would like would be more LOW end torque. The Paxton is great I hear past 4000. These heads probably don't help that either, not sure...
ssjcreeper
Viper Owner
I could be wrong, but I believe the Paxton still puts down additional power below 4,000 rpm and I know the heads/cam packages from Greg Good and Viper Specialty definitely put down more power in the lower rpms too. Speaking from experience, there's no lack of low end power from these heads/cam packages.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Well, I know your car is ridiculous! I would like to understand the differences in power delivery actually. I am sure both systems add power everywhere, but the general power curve is usually more top end power (I know I am mixing power and torque here...). Before I owned the car, I assume the giant V10 would have tons of low end torque, but it doesn't (again relatively speaking). Even stock, its 4000 RPM and above where things get interesting. Perhaps only something like a CAM can do it. And of course there is always gearing to make it 'feel' like it has more torque, and would be cheaper...
Anyway, just curious - I'd like to see the torque curve of these Mopar heads and a Paxton on top of each other. I am sure I can find those graphs on here. Again, forgive all my mixing of power and torque terms, but you get the idea.
cubican
Enthusiast
ssjcreeper
Viper Owner
LOL. No, I get what you mean. I thoroughly enjoyed my previous supercharged C6, particularly for how incredible it felt in the lower rpms. When I first took delivery of my Viper, I was honestly disappointed with how it felt in the lower rpms. To Cubican's point though, gears would likely change your outlook. A 3.55 rear would really wake up the car up in the lower rpms and probably get you that low rpm grunt your looking for.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Cubican / SSJCreeper - yes, I am considering the gears, as it is clearly cheaper! The Paxton / Heads / Turbo routes are very expensive and I am still trying to understand the pros / cons of each. But I would love some gears to get the added rear wheel torque and also get to the upper RPMs a bit quicker. I would like to say its some philosophical / engineering decision, but no, its mostly about money. I would rather wait till I had the cash instead of doing nickel and dime engine stuff.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
I think the twin screw type supercharger would be what I want, with the low end immediate boost. I know the top end will lose out to a centrifugal. But from what I've read here in this site, no one makes one that can feed 8 plus liters...
JAY
Enthusiast
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
There is one in the works by a reliable vendor , scheduled for next spring .
Hmmm... I am intrigued... Can't wait to see it!
JAY
Enthusiast
ssjcreeper
Viper Owner
A twin screw supercharger was exactly what I was after too, but I gave up on waiting for one to materialize. I don't really care to wring out the rpms to have fun. Having instant power in the lower rpms is what I find most enjoyable too. Have to say I got exactly what I wanted (and then some) with the heads/cam solution, but if there's a twin screw systems in the works, I'd certainly like to see/hear more.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
I would not hold your breath... Just sayin
Same people who did Gen 4 Head package for Gen 3 . Take it for what its worth
cubican
Enthusiast
No luck on finding someone that has done it on a viper, what I like about the kit is the looks and price (with the vpa discount)I just like to see some real world #.
