Has anyone install the Mopar Performance Part # P5156137 gen4 heads for the gen3
- Thread starter cubican
- Start date
Same people who did Gen 4 Head package for Gen 3 . Take it for what its worth
Who, us? LOL
My personal opinion, is that a business would have to be over-confident at best to put the R&D into a blower design for a now well out of production engine design. The blower design by default will have massive short comings because of the application it is to be used in, just like all of the past attempts have had to deal with, and when considering what twin turbo kits are available for in basic forms these days, it just doesnt make a really good business case. It will sell, sure, but its a brick wall at the end of the "modification highway", and is just a very limited market IMHO. Anybody who knows the ins and outs of it all would be looking at a basic TT kit, and avoid all of the headaches before they start.
cubican
Enthusiast
Found a viper with the kit on u-tube with good # http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Fj7twZnvwcc&NR=1
ssjcreeper
Viper Owner
Nice to finally see a little info on these. Those numbers are spot on the claimed 650bhp and with no mention of a cam change.
Viktimize
Enthusiast
Is anyone offering this for a little lower price?? For 17k I am pretty sure I would rather just P&P my stock heads, and add a cam and a TT kit.
$6,480 from VPA with Venom discount.
It should be noted that this package includes substantially more than the Mopar based kit. If you take the Mopar kit, and add the Custom Camshaft, Headers, Exhaust, Intake System & Filters, Accessories, Stainless Hardware, Complete Installation AND SCT Device w/Dyno Tuning, you are right up there again, with the nod on visual appeal and leftover parts heavily tipping in our packages favor.
Viktimize
Enthusiast
Thanks!! Looks like it's just under 10k with the headers, exhaust, and fuel pump.
Viktimize
Enthusiast
Ya sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate your kit was sub par. A lot of us have some of those other parts included, so it doesn't make sense to spend money on a complete kit like that. Do you guys have any flexibility with the price if someone comes in with their own SCT, exhaust, etc??
There is some flexibility, yes, but it depends on many circumstances. The Mopar kit uses an "adapter" manifold which is half Gen-3, half Gen-4, and uses a Gen-3 type throttle body. Our version uses a true Gen-4 manifold & custom 5-axis machined billet throttle bodies w/Wiggins type clamps & inlet tubes, as it was developed with Twin Turbo applications & aesthetics in mind, and this is where the extra expense is contained compared to the Mopar kit. Also FYI, our complete package was developed to accommodate people who have Gen-3 cars and Gen-3 parts only, and takes into consideration what is not usable. Even Gen-3 cars with headers, rockers, etc cannot use any of those parts on a Gen-4 based package of any type, as they do not interchange.
This is not to say that we cannot substitute or delete items. Our packages have hundreds of dollars in Stainless ARP hardware for example, as well as K&N filters, full Dyno Tune, Hardened Pushrods, Camshaft & timing set, Shielded Plug Wires, etc- basically, thousands of dollars in extras even over a "complete with cam/exhaust/tuner" package. Some of these items can be stripped to bring the cost down... but the irony of it is, most of these items end up getting "a la carte'd" right back on mid-build or within a short while after- many by necessity, many by "Why in the hell didn't I just do it the first time around?".
In short summary, the price is higher because we include the items that everyone chooses to forget about, ha. There are many items that should be done when building a package like this for the sake of completeness and longevity overall, and most of those are not considered in the pricing of competing packages, you have to figure them out yourself in those cases.
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jknappster
Enthusiast
Why am I not seeing the video?
Dont know... I can see it above? It is a link to YouTube.
On the topic of the video... they don't show any dyno sheet, and they reference a Crank horsepower number without telling how they calculated it. VERY SUSPECT given the other results that have been floating around. Hell, the car could have put down 500 RWHP and using a 22.5% drivetrain loss... they could get that claimed number. [Obviously an exaggeration, but nonetheless]
jknappster
Enthusiast
I just get a black square.
cubican
Enthusiast
Dan what other results? are they on a viper. The way I see it I can get it done for less than 10K the VPA price is to good to pass up.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Maybe I missed it, but did someone overlay this setup over a Paxton setup? About the same price thereabouts.
Why must this kit have the worlds most boring intake manifold? I love the Gen3 one with the exposed intake runners, like the Gen I/II. This thing looks like a table. But I guess if it works...
Why must this kit have the worlds most boring intake manifold? I love the Gen3 one with the exposed intake runners, like the Gen I/II. This thing looks like a table. But I guess if it works...
cubican
Enthusiast
The paxton set up is not for me I like to keep it all motor, If I was to do a f-I system will be an RSI tubo for sure.
345s-bspinnin
Enthusiast
I wouldn't discount that flat odd-ball looking manifold. Apparently its healthy enough for a the 800+hp Race engine on the Challenger Drag Pak, Baja truck, etc.
I actually like that flat look. I would probably engrave the viper fangs logo on it. Or better yet, someone can cut the top flat piece and replace it with clear plexiglass window
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ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Another question... I assume then you would end up some nice stock heads and a manifold that could be sold to recoup some money here?
There was a setup installed on a Ram SRT a while back, gained about 75 RWHP. There was also a Viper setup that Mark Jorgensen/Woodhouse installed or knew about posted in one of the other related threads a good while back, and the results were "OK" at best as well, if I recall, both cars were in the 525-540 range. Don't quote me on the latter however, not 100% it was Mark/Woodhouse- but I am about 90% sure thats who posted about it. Thread was probably near a year ago.
YES!
This is one of the things that everyone ignores- you end up with two heads, a whole valvetrain, intake manifold, exhaust, valve covers, etc that you no longer need. You aren't just paying for a service- you are buying half an engine!
No. The Gen-4 manifold is not compatible with any mechanical throttle bodies or idle control systems with the exception of our custom 5-axis billet throttles, and we do not sell them separately from the VS-X700 package.
Thanks for the reply.
Any guesses on how much the stock gen 3 components (intake, heads, valvetrain, valve covers, rails, injectors, etc.) would likely sell for as an offset to the purchse price? I've seen whole used engines selling for as low as $7k, so I wonder if at least $2k is obtainable through the sale of essentially half of the engine.
2K is a low estimate for the total parts content- usually more. For a VS-X700 package, you would have left over:
-Cam
-Heads
-Pushrods
-Rockers
-Valve Covers
-Manifold
-Throttle Body
-Rails/Injectors
-Air Filter
-AirBox
-Headers
-Cats
-Exhaust System [sometimes]
You are forgetting the cam, timing set, decent pushrods and consumables at a minimum. Also, the tuning device and tuning labor. Dyno time. Installation labor. Easily an extra 5K for most people even in a bare-bones format.
IMO You cannot compare a base TT package to a full engine package price wise, I don't think its fair to call anything over a certain point "TT Territory", given how many variations there are in build types. One primarily consists of pipes and tubes, the other consists of major engine components. Historically, NA packages are always far more expensive dollars-per-horsepower than TT packages in raw parts content. Sure, a basic TT kit can be bolted to a stock engine, and if all you care about is horsepower, that's fine, but it doesn't tell the whole story.
Some people prefer NA power and will pay more for less power based on this fact. Some people factor in visual appeal compared to power gains. For the larger builds and someone who wants something built correctly, for visual impact, reliably, and for the long haul, you really need both engine modifications and a TT system working in tandem. The G4 head packages lend themselves well for integration into a "bigger picture" as a more visually appealing substitute to Striker or modified Gen-3 parts.
I guess what I am getting at is that you don't want to overlook NA packages and simply jump to TT based on power alone. Factor in what is important to you, and then work around it to achieve your goals- many of the parts translate into both packages with just a little tweaking.
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You guys need a distributor/installer on the west cost. 17k for the kit is already big bucks combined that with 3600 dollars for round shipping and your just way up there. I'm sure you can see where one would look at an RSI 13k kit and have it all tuned and installed for under 15k at a SoCal shop who is also a site sponsor. I can recognize the quality of your product but you are definitely limiting yourself by keeping the install in house.
Viper Parts of America
Enthusiast
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We have sold several of these kits and have yet to have any complaints. We sent three alone to one shop in Europe as their customers were stoked after the first one was done on a 2004 - it dyno'ed at 660 HP with a Comp Coupe cam and headers. They ended up installing dry sump kits on two of them as well for even more horsepower - 675 on both (we sold those too). Not sure what they did with the fuel systems, as they did not buy the Gen 4 pumps as recommended. We have another kit going out next week.
JAY
Enthusiast
Thanx for Sharing !!!
