HEAD GASKET ADVISE NEEDED

[CAVIPER]

I JUST BOUGHT A 94 RT/10 AND WAS WORIED ABOUT THE HEAD GASKET PROBLEM I'VE BEEN READING ABOUT. THANKS TO THE HELP OF THIS BOARD I WAS ABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MIRIAM VAUGHN ABOUT AN EXTENDED WARRANTY.

MY QUESTION WAS:

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE APPROXIMATE MILAGE THAT THE FAILURES START OCCURING AT? I AM TRYING TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH I'M GOING TO DRIVE THE CAR VS HOW LONG OF A WARRANTY TO GET.

THANKS
RANDY

 

[RobHook]

Paul,

I haven't done any machine work for quite a few years but .0003 (three ten-thousandths of an inch) tolerences seem awfully small, especially for the mains. Did you retype this at some point and maybe put an extra zero in?

I've talked to a few machinists and mechanics (including those working for Mercedes and Ferrari shops) and the general consensus was that completely rebuilding the engine because the head gaskets were "going" is over reacting. Now, if they completely let go and you got emulsified oil/coolant running through the bearings for any amount of time it might be needed. Other than that, most of you are being taken for a ride. Just my opinion.

--Rob

 

[FRANK]

Rob,

Just what I was about to type. Those tolerances are so minute it won't really make much difference. I know you are a firm believer in Arrow but it could have come that way possibly from the factory. I have seen them assemble motors at Conner Avenue. First of all I saw three women building the motors - dropping cranks in and slamming pistons in their bores. I didn't see anyone using micrometers or plasti-gage. As a matter of fact the women that were assembling the motors looked as if they were haging out on a Detroit corner in some ghetto. I call it like I see it.

To any Joe Shmoe on this board who never put a motor together I guess any amount of tolerance or so called "out of spec" is disasterous and means imminent failure...Those kinds of tolerances in a street motor is no big deal. Remember this is an aluminum block whereby it expands and contracts more than a cast iron block...so the align hone cleaned it up a bit...I guarantee if you didn't have it align honed it would still be okay...

Have a nice day!

Replace your head gaskets and call it a day.

 

[Jeff Torrey]

I have to go with Frank on this one. Beware of the Obsessive compulsive.

My car is in for rings, oil consumption at a rate of 3 quarts per 500 miles. A common problem with 92 cars.

Pistons were fine. Cylinder walls fine. Heads are fine, but updating the gaskets. So, a new set of rings. Head gaskets etc. A happy ending, but you need a good mechanic.

Good luck.

 

[Vip-RT10]

Jeff, I have an early 93 and face the sae problem as you with the oil consumption. Did they drop the engine for that or not? Please e-mail me with any extra info you may have, this is the job pending fr me too. Thanks Jeff....

 

[dansauto]

my car only has 130000 miles and it went (94 also) I don't think milage is the only factor. Just plan on replacing them. It cost me $650 (but that is because I worked a deal out with a viper tech in his spare time) Figure about $2000 to be safe. I would claim they are leaking from the beginning an see if your warrenty will cover.

 

[94 RT/10 Black MAMBA]

There is more to it than just replacing the head gaskets. This is a verbatum "failure report" supplied to me by Arrow Racing Engines who did the warranty work on my 94:

Upon receipt of your engine, we found some things wrong. Both cylinder head gaskets were leaking coolant and the thermostat crossover was leaking too. The main housing bore was out of spec by .0001 to .0003 and had to be align honed to repair. Flywheel needed to be replaced.
The block was sent back to the original manufacture for counter bores and redecking.
The engine was then reassembled using all new parts including the crankshaft, camshaft with lifters, piston/rod assemblies, cylinder liners, timing chain set, front cover with oil pump, thermostat, water pump, rod and main bearings, spark plugs and wires. With new gaskets and seals, the rebuild is complete.
The engine was then sent to our dyno shop for a two-hour break in period with three W.O.T. power runs to confirm the engine met the rated horsepower and torque numbers. A cylinder leak down and compression test was preformed, and a special oberg oil filter was inspected and after a final check for any external oil leaks the engine was prepared for return shipment.

Note all of the machine work and all the "new" parts installed.

Don't worry. If you have a Chrysler warranty they will do all of the above for you as well. As far as when it happens - I started to notice the tell tale coolant tracks under my heads (look for these) at about 12,000 miles. I waited until 20,000 miles to have the work done simply because I wasn't in any hurry (my warranty lasts until June 2004) and I wanted to do it during the winter months. I've got 600 miles on my motor since the rebuild and I couldn't be happier. The motor feels stronger but I haven't had it over 4,500 RPM's yet.

 

[JonB]

To answer your original question:

It Depends.

Long periods of dry, un-run storage caused failures in under 4000 miles. Gaskets dry out it seems.

Regular drivers usually start seeping wispy aroma at 10k-14k.

By 20k you have small puddles.

Mine aroma began at 12k, and were finally replaced under warranty at 45K miles. But I had the heads torqued twice, and faithfully burped and flushed to avoid overheat...which also hastens leaks.

BUY THAT WARRANTY if you can ! 1994! What a Company !!!

 

[94 RT/10 Black MAMBA]

Regarding the .0003 in the main housing bore.

I happen to know a little something about mechanical parts (work in engineering of military ordnance) so allow me to retort:

If the .0003 condition is an accumalitive condition throughout the five journals it is less of a problem than say if it were out .0003 at one location only (the failure report didn't specify). This would be very significant.

But you people seem to miss the point!

All of this work was done for FREE less the $100 deductible. How can some say we are "taken".

As far as Frank's opinions. I have read many of his posts. At first I thought he was joking or being sarcastic in some of his remarks. But over time I have come to realize he is just a "shade tree mechanic", who knows just enough to screw up whatever he works on. I for one wouldn't allow him near a skateboard.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

It would be really, really interesting to get DC statistics and **** through all the Arrow rebuilds - see how many were rebuilt because the dealers were helpful, the gasket was simply a poor design the first time, or the sleeves actually shifted. I have 48,000 miles on an 11-month-a-year 1994 daily driver that gets lots of thermal exercise (cold starts at 15F through AX events and time trials) and no leak problems. (Did replace thermostat feet gaskets, no coolant system "goo" fixes, and only one coolant flush to DexCool.)

 

[FRANK]

Paul...

Keep on retorting my friend. If you are such a handyman and knowledgeable machinist type...why is that you do NONE of your own work. Plus, by monitoring your posts, I realize a kid in high school autoshop has more knowledge than you regarding the automobile.

As far as being a "shade-tree" mechanic who you wouldn't let me near your skateboard...well you can go to you know where. I just built my own shop where I have done more work for people in my spare time than you have done in your whole life. You can attempt to break my chops all you want...keep paying people to do your work (like me) and keep retoring. I love when you retort. Is that one of your favorite words?

Again, I wish you could retort to my face...are you going to the next Viper Invitational? If so, drop me a line...maybe that would be incentive for me to go. I'd love to go a few rounds while you retort...

 

[REDSLED]

CAVIPER-Any luck with the warranty? I too have a 94 RT/10 and am looking to get an extended warranty for the vehicle. The recent posts about the head gasket problems with Gen I engines has me a little worried. Let me know how it goes with Miriam.

 

[FRANK]

Keep in mind one thing. If you purchase a warranty whereby the car is not thoroughly inspected and you find a puddle of antifreeze on the floor a week after you purchased it you may be out of luck. This was explained to me by that woman who sells warranties for Fitzgerald I believe. She said that don't plan on anything major getting repaired in the first few months of a newly purchased warranty especially if no one checked out the car. The only way around this is to wait a few months and then bring the car in for service. The way they look at it as is you already could have had a leaking head, bought a warranty, and now you expect them to fix it considering you had the problem beforehand.