Heads/Cam vs SC

[V10 MOJO]

Im in a dilema and what the helll figured id take it to the streets (or at least the boards) to get some opinions.

Im considering a serious heads/cam upgrade or a SC upgrade (either pax or roe)

i would also entertain the heads/cam and THEN future sc add-on.

any input on which YOU would do and why?

also; is heads/cam setup same either with or w/o sc? are hp (heads/cam) numbers same if prepped for either way

 

[FranciscoR.]

Knowledge from other cars. I would go with the "serious" head and cam upgrade. While it MAY not provide the same power, it is SOLID power. And the engine is very acceptable to future mods. And besides, I think a supercharger would only be enhanced by a good head and cam combo. Go with a solid engine, then modify something like the SC...my 2 cents

 

[Torquemonster]

If drag strip and street are your thing - boost is the best value for money of the 2 options IMO.

To make a Viper run equivalently quick will cost more off boost than on it.... unless you get NOS. Add it up - heads, cam, lifters, springs, pushrods, roller rockers, headers, tuning and labour, probably rear gears to liven it up and get it on cam quicker, maybe even lower ratios for 5th and 6th - you're already into SC costings and still way below a SC power potential.

If road racing is your thing - a SC adds unwanted weight up front - plus in higher boost levels creates power levels hard to control around a track.

Personally - I'd blueprint and build from the ground up - but it all takes money and when budget is important - the best bolt on power adder is a proven supercharger package by one of the reputable tuners. The cheaper ones are likely to end up costing you more by the time you get them right anyway. You won't regret spending more by getting a pro to do it.

Of course Nos will always be the cheapest (but least convenient) power adder if you don't mind refilling the bottle every so often - but you need a really good system to ensure the engine does not torch itself.

 

[Saleen-Explorer]

IMO, I'm with Torque, you cannot beat the supercharger for the $$. I would only stay n/a with a head/cam upgrade if you are only into tracking as in road racing (but your more into 1/4 runs right?), otherwise among the other things Torque pointed out, it's going to develop way to much heat on a road course if being pushed hard with a supercharger.

It sounds like your looking for the best bang for buck and the supercharger cannot be beat, sure you have the nitrous option but that wouldn't be fun for me. I'd want constant power at any given time instead of arming the nitrous system and then running out and having to refill. You can still later on go with a head/cam upgrade if you want even more power.

If your only looking at daily driving, and doing 1/4 mile runs at the strip, then maybe nitrous + head/cam upgrade would do you fine. But I would still be craving the sick, "constant" torque of a supercharger in daily driving. Nitrous is basically useless on the street for the most part.

Plus, bower whine rules

 

[newredrt10]

The thought that heads and cam for road racing is a good way to go. Power is there now. If you want big hp numbers with heads and cam, the car may not be good on the street. Also if you go with a fair amount of hp now with heads and cams and want to add a supercharger later you may have to do head work again to reduce compression ratio for the supercharger. One last thing about supercharger is if you just put a supercharger on and use stock heads, you can put the car back to stock for resale. As you can tell I have been looking, and doing. I can't wait until next year.

 

[Marc Lublin]

I've gone both routes and for a street car I can tell you that SC is the way to go. I built many cars with heads and cam. If you don't go crazy, it good reliable power. Today why would spend all the money (and it does add up) to do heads and cam to get marginal power compared to the supercharger. SC's have proven to be safe and reliable from the main guys out there. My head/cam plus all the other mods car was fast, but the SC is insane, not in the same ballpark. Also, if you go with a NA cam like I did a couple of years ago, you should probably get a cam that it optimized for forced induction if you change over, so you will be doing it all again. Belive me, in hindsight I would have never gone the NA route. I think with all the cars I modify, I will look for a forced induction route from now on.

 

[GaryA]

Two words--Twin Turbo. Costs more, but is more than worth the money!!

--------------
2000 Black RT/10
Heffner 1000SCi 843 rwhp 792 rwtq 10.20 ET @ 141 MPH
Heffner Performance - Home of the World's First 9-second supercharged Viper!

 

[Tom Welch]

You cannot go wrong with heads and cam and any of the above mentioned options. A good flowing set of heads with a cam that is designed for your "future mods" will net the best all around result.

Keep in mind that these engines are merely air pumps. We help them pump air in with superchargers and turbochargers. They will pump even more air and do it even more efficeintly by increasing the output of the pump (engine) itself.

I got to agree with Gary though, especially after watching the TT's that H>M>S> and Sal had out this weekend. I'm a nitrous user, but the effective hp of the TT is hands down the way to go if one can afford it.

Tom

 

[JimT 99RT]

It really comes down to what kind of power you are looking for, where you want to drive the car, and how much money you want to spend.

I looked at this also, for me it seemed like the best bang for the buck if you don't go with NOS was a Roe S/C, you have proven performance, and I really enjoyed putting it in myself. There was not enough info out on the Paxton unit and I liked the twin-screw setup of the Autorotor unit.

Heads, Cam, lifters, pistons, crank, Balanced/Blue Printed etc are great, but for me would not be a DYI job, so car would have to be taken out of state and dropped off.

For Big power I would send the car to Heffner, DLM or directly to Sean for a higher boost setup with all the appropriate mods.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I have the Roe S/C and have the same 350 rwHP as the 1059 HP S/C Viper at 3000 RPMs - but not above that RPM. Heads and cam can be added later, but for street use at legal speeds or just slightly above, I have plenty of power all the time any time I want to and in any gear. Sean Roe is testing a heads/cam package that will add 50 rwHP at 3000 RPM and 100 rwHP at the top end (700+ total). And that's without the intercooler he's working on...

I like instant always available low end power controlled by my right foot only.

 

[BADVENOM]

three letters...D...L...M...

 

[Torquemonster]

I never mentioned twin turbos because they are in another price bracket - but seeing as Gary and Tom brought it up - yeah - TT is the ultimate.

Expect to spend $30k to do it right - but that is the ultimate driving experience. You haven't lived until you have experienced a big engine under high boost when those turbos kick in.

Forget the $10k kit offers - that wouldn't come even close to covering the parts - except for a K-mart package. TT is one mod you don't shop with K-mart mentality. It's what I'm planning - even before I get my Viper - I already know that TT is what I'l be preparing for.... because there's nothing better.

 

[MannyC]

I never mentioned twin turbos because they are in another price bracket - but seeing as Gary and Tom brought it up - yeah - TT is the ultimate.

Expect to spend $30k to do it right - but that is the ultimate driving experience. You haven't lived until you have experienced a big engine under high boost when those turbos kick in.

Forget the $10k kit offers - that wouldn't come even close to covering the parts - except for a K-mart package. TT is one mod you don't shop with K-mart mentality. It's what I'm planning - even before I get my Viper - I already know that TT is what I'l be preparing for.... because there's nothing better.

You know, I heard the whole time I was in Texas how the Twin Turbos are the way to go. Hell, I heard this from guys with monster super charger packages. But the way it was explained to me was that with superchargers, the power comes on in a linear fashion, so you are pulled back in your seat and held there through the entire acceleartion curve, while with the turbos, you get blasted back in your seat intensely hard initially.

The problem I see with this is that in a street application, you're going to be traction limited, and it seems to me that gradual power coming from a supercharger is going to make you faster on the street than getting slammed with a TT or Nitrous and spinning your tires (easier). Again, I am talking about street tires. With Slicks, sure, no big deal. But most of us are going to be running around with Pilots or something equivelant, so I am not yet sold on the whole power thing from the Turbos.

Yellow Fever will be getting his Twin Turbo'd car and I will be getting my Supercharged car, and we are nearly neighbors, so we'll post some nice videos challenging each other. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is. From everything I heard at the V10 Nationals, I *should* get spanked. But then again, I think traction is going to come into play to even it all up.

 

[dwhitt]

Resale is also a consideration for me - with a s/c you can always take off and sell for 60 to 80 cents on the dollar - more difficult to remove heads / cam for resale

my $.02

 

[SneakyPete]

From experience, I would do the heads,cam upgrade.

Heads/cam/RR's are the base upgrades if you want to build a car with some serious numbers and not do the bottom or stoker. Then add an S/C, Nitrous or TT. I had a S/C with with stock heads and cam and you are limited to about 600 RWHP with some other required, somewhat expensive $$$/HP cost parts.

Plus anyone with just NX or BTR single stage 200 shot with header/cat back will blow your doors off on the street, because once the s/c car gets hot and starts blowing a hotter charge, HP numbers go way down as I have disappointly found out. If nothing else, go with centrifical S/C like Leven's uses.

If you are happy with around 600 rwhp then one of the Do it yourself S/C's kits might work, they just tend to put alot more wear and tear on motor as compared to head/cam upgrade with about the same numbers. Plus you are at the mercy of the S/C vendor if for whaterver reason it does not work or you have problems with it on your car.

Jan 2, 2004 going to BTR for heads/cam/RR and 2 stage Nitrous/prop/gas 300 rwhp shot. Do your research before you jump and no one will openly come out a this board and compain about S/C kit problem as they are afraid of loosing their warantee's.

 

[JimT 99RT]

V10 MOJO,

Now you know the truth about us S/C guys. People watch our houses and monitor all of our communication. We live in constant fear...

PLEASE HELP ME... HELP ME...

 

[V10 MOJO]

LOL, thnx all for the opinions, ive been dealin with this indecision now for the entire yr. this cash is burning a hole in my pocket and i just dont know who to give it to, LOL

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Comes down to budget:

Lower budget: bolt on blower - Roe or Paxton. I would lean towards Paxton.

Medium budget: N/A, head/cam or stroker motor.

Big budget: Twin turbo, ultimate power and driveability.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

LOL, thnx all for the opinions, ive been dealin with this indecision now for the entire yr. this cash is burning a hole in my pocket and i just dont know who to give it to, LOL

Give it to me!

Thanks in advance, Rich!

 

[Chuck B 98 GTS]

Heads & Cam = For the budget minded.

Supercharger = For the street/strip.

Twin Turbo = Fifteen minutes of fame at the track.

 

[Tom Welch]

One other thing to consider....seeing that I always equate dollars spent with doing mods;

If you install the supercharger system first, you will have to do the same job again once you purchase the cylinder head and cam upgrade, not to mention the additional labor hours involved in further tuning for the new engine output.

If you install the cylinder head/cam package first, you will not have to spend those same dollars again...which could add up to a couple of thousand dollars, funds that could be spent doing other useful upgrades.

Just another item to consider.

Tom

 

[V10 MOJO]

well...FINALLY...decision has been made; now to get it ready for V10 Nats Florida in February

 

[Simms]

well...FINALLY...decision has been made; now to get it ready for V10 Nats Florida in February

So WHAT is the decision?

 

[Dr Roof]

How fast do you want to go? where to you want to go fast?

Superchargers are fast
Turbo's are Fast (Not completely proven yet on the street still in infancy but making leaps and bounds)
NOS is fast on the track (not sure how it works on street)
Heads and cam puts you in the middle as far as drag racing.


All Motor is not a bad route either.

so what did you decide?????????