Heffner's Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

[MaxedGTS]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

Guys, I have a question. If you are not going to be 1/4 mile tracking the car, is the TT really that much better than the 1000 SC package that Jason is putting out? I ask because at 1000 HP or 850 at the rear wheels or whatever it comes out to, aren't you already spinning tires in 3rd gear and probably chirping them in 4th? So unless you are racing up to near 200 MPH, why?

I would love to get a Turbo, but I started thinking about the power I am going to have already and whether the extra cost of a Turbo is worth it. I know you can tune boost for to change on the fly at different RPM's and in different gears, and I can see that being a huge advantage, but other than that, for a street race (to whoop up on bikes) isn't 850 RWHP whether from a SC or a TT going to feel nearly the same since traction is traction?

I would love to hear your comments on all of this. My next Viper will be a Turbo, no doubt. Damn, I better start shopping for one. HA!

Manny

i thought i was going to turbo charge my 2003 SRT but dont think i am going that route. DLM has had a turbo prototype gts for the past two years. Ive been in constant contact with Doug about the project but he said the sc car has been best on the street and to tune. The power still is very predictable on the sc car. Ive had my handful of turbo cars but nothing like on the viper.
the turbo car sounds like fun.
Max

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

I have heard that supercharged cars are horrible on road course events because the power is not consistent and more importantly, the car heats up very quick.

Would a twin turbo Viper be any different? Could somebody have a 1000 HP beast on the road, but then hit the "track" button which retards turbo boost allowing you to run it on a road course event, or will you still have heating issues?

And is any tuner turbo charging Gen I's ? I am sure some of you know where this is going

Manny

Manny, 1000+ HP supercharged Vipers do get too hot on a road course.

The power on the blower car is probably more consistent on a road course than a turbo car because there is a direct linearity between the RPM and the boost available at that RPM.

A turbo car's boost is generated by load, ie how hard and how long you push on the gas pedal combined with how tall a gear you are in.

I bet the 2-speed powerglide turbo Vipers make 3 more PSI in 2nd gear due to 2nd being taller and generating more relative load.

You asked if somebody could have a 1000HP turbo Viper and "detune" the power for the road course.

Power is simply a function of how much air and fuel can be put together in a manner which does not detonate or blow the heads off the car.

More power makes more heat..... Less power makes less heat.

I am sure if you took a 1000 HP supercharged Viper and put a much bigger pulley that essentially detuned the power output to say 600 HP, I am sure the car would run much cooler as it would no longer be generating the 1000 HP worth of heat on a roadcourse where only 600 HP can be used.

I would think the 1000 HP Turbo Viper detuned to 600 Hp would run considerably cooler.

To know the absolute answer to your question, you will have to ask me after I do it and have some concrete #'s.

As far as the Gen-1 question is concerned, I would sell your RT/10 and get a cheap GTS and send it to Jason Heffner for "The Treatment"

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

Manny

[/QUOTE]i thought i was going to turbo charge my 2003 SRT but dont think i am going that route. DLM has had a turbo prototype gts for the past two years. Ive been in constant contact with Doug about the project but he said the sc car has been best on the street and to tune. The power still is very predictable on the sc car. Ive had my handful of turbo cars but nothing like on the viper.
the turbo car sounds like fun.
Max

[/QUOTE]

Max, It is always easy to tune that with which you are familiar.

I am sure that there are a lot of die hard supercharger guys who love what they've got and that's great.

It all depends what you want.

Turbos offer the ultimate power AND flexibility. Boost is boost and fuel is fuel.

That's what I like about Jason Heffner.... I think he STARTED fabricating this kit about 3 months ago. He has it making the same HP and TQ #'s the Venom 800 made in MotorTrend on a stock motor on the second day of tuning.

I can't wait to see what he can do with my car......

 

[MannyC]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

As far as the Gen-1 question is concerned, I would sell your RT/10 and get a cheap GTS and send it to Jason Heffner for "The Treatment"

GTS? So ugly! Well, at least compared to an RT/10. I love my RT/10.

I might get rid of my RT/10, but everything on it is geared towards tracking the car, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE to road course. If I had a milder cam and a little more clean power, I would drive this thing on the street all the time.

In any event, I will have a black GTS (that doesn't look like a normal GTS) with a supercharger in 6 weeks or so, so I will be a happy camper. But a Heffner Turbo in another car sure would be sweet!

Speaking of Turbos, West Coast Viper I believe has sold a Turbo kit as well and was putting some big numbers to the rear wheels. If pricing on Turbo's wasn't so much higher, I would get my other car Turbo'd right now.

Manny

 

[Viper TT]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

Ron: I've actually tuned a FAST system on a local 69 Z28. I've been programming factory LT1 ECM's(n/a, s/c'd, and turbo'd setups up to 800hp) for about 8 years and worked with a few stand alones. I was also involved in the beta testing of the AEM unit when it first released for the Supras. I've tuned a few AEM Supras for local folks. The flexibility of the AEM is incredible. Along with the ability to calibrate any sensor to the system. All the tables in the software allow you to define different sensors to work with the AEM.(i.e. I use a GM 3 Bar Map and GM IAT sensor on the Supra)

Mike: I'm sure we'll wick the boost up, but realistically it will only be for dyno bragging rights. On the street, usable power will be something to be determined.

Lee: You're a lucky man to live so close! I'm 1.5 hours away and sometimes it is difficult to get over there. I'm sure we'll meet there soon!

Paul: No problem. Good luck on your Supra search. It took quite a while to find my 98 QS(7700 miles).

Paolo: I've heard quite a bit about you as well! Look forward to meeting to you! I've been talking to the engineer in charge at AEM about the EMS and we may possibly obtain a beta unit. I brought in my laptop and showed Jason the flexibility and ability of the AEM via my Supra setup. As much tuning as I've done in the last few years, I've become a control freak where I cannot live without full engine management anymore. I've been running the AEM on my Supra with a fulltime wideband for close to 2 years now and have been through many hurdles with AEM and their bugs. But they are normally on top of upgrading the firmware and software to further stabilize their system. The difficult part of tuning the AEM on the Viper will be the cold/warm starts, idle control, accel/decel tuning, and general drivabililty. All these parameters have to be defined specifically. Believe it or not, it took close to 2 days to straighten out idle control on the initial firmware! There were problems with the idle air control motor losing synch with the EMS. Since the release of the AEM, they have come a long way to further simplify idle control along with many other features. Wide open is the easiest part to tune!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

Manny, that is great that you should have your car back before christmas

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

Paolo: I've heard quite a bit about you as well! Look forward to meeting to you! I've been talking to the engineer in charge at AEM about the EMS and we may possibly obtain a beta unit. I brought in my laptop and showed Jason the flexibility and ability of the AEM via my Supra setup. As much tuning as I've done in the last few years, I've become a control freak where I cannot live without full engine management anymore. I've been running the AEM on my Supra with a fulltime wideband for close to 2 years now and have been through many hurdles with AEM and their bugs. But they are normally on top of upgrading the firmware and software to further stabilize their system. The difficult part of tuning the AEM on the Viper will be the cold/warm starts, idle control, accel/decel tuning, and general drivabililty. All these parameters have to definied specifically. Believe it or not, it took close to 2 days to straighten out idle control on the initial firmware! There were problems with the idle air control motor losing synch with the EMS. Since the release of the AEM, they have come a long way to further simplify idle control along with many other features. Wide open is the easiest part to tune!

[/QUOTE]

Sal, I had no idea about your tuning background!

The AEM is definitely the way to go for superior fuel management.

I am sure it will take a little time to figure out all the nuances of the AEM on the Viper and to work out the little bugs, but it will be a big accomplishment and a giant step foreward for Viper engine management.

Between Jason, Sean from TQ freaks, and yourself, the AEM EMS should be rocking and rolling in no time!

Did you know that I have been the designated go-to-guy for all data above 200 MPH?

Take care and I will talk to you soon!

 

[Viper TT]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

It all started back in 1995 when all the "custom programmers" could not figure how to run 42lb injectors in an s/c'd 93 Vette. I figured I didn't need to pay someone to screw up the programming, I can do equally well and not have to pay for it!

Like I was saying, I've heard a lot about you! I don't doubt you'll make a great testing platform!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

It all started back in 1995 when all the "custom programmers" could not figure how to run 42lb injectors in an s/c'd 93 Vette. I figured I didn't need to pay someone to screw up the programming, I can do equally well and not have to pay for it!

Like I was saying, I've heard a lot about you! I don't doubt you'll make a great testing platform!

Sal, if you want something done right it seems you have to do it yourself! Which is no big news the more and more I get into the car mechanical work. Good luck with the beta unit!

 

[Bonkers]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

2 questions -

- Is heff planning on making the TT a package deal like the 575 and SC now that he has the prototype dealt with? (I realized from talking with Sal that there was a lot of little headaches and delays which I never hear if they were resolved to Heffs liking or not.)

- Sal or Heff, can you post a pic of that comparison Turbo/SC torque curve? I'm curious to know what it actually looks like.

 

[Viper TT]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

Brian,

The little headaches were more in obtaining the prototype turbo units. After that Jason went through a small trial and error period to make sure the packaging was optimized. Which was the most important aspect on developing this kit. Based on the latest results, I would tend think most of the issues have been resolved!

 

[KepRght]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

may i ask the cost? sounds great so far

 

[Gerald Levin]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

Isn't the Heffner SC1000 appx $16K? And I believe it was also the first SC to run a sub-10 second 1/4 (9.90).

 

[Viper TT]

Re: Heffner\'s Prototype Twin Turbo Viper GTS

KepRght: Pricing is something that you will need to call Jason at (410) 766 2800.

Gerald: If I am not mistaken, $16k is the base kit and then options go up from there. The 1000hp kit is more than $16k.